Same pickup, completely different results

[CarlosG]

Hi! Have any of you ever thought about the fact that not every pickup you consider bad is actually bad in reality — that it might just be a wrong assumption?

Not long ago I tried a Tone Zone in my Strat and it sounded awful: lots of compression, muddy bass, and a harsh, ear-piercing top end. I couldn’t understand the hype around this DiMarzio classic at all.

Recently, however, I bought an Ibanez 421 HPAM, and this pickup in this guitar sounds great. It’s well balanced and, surprisingly, doesn’t have nearly as much compression as it did in the Strat. It sounds so good that I honestly wouldn’t change a thing.

I always thought I’d find my favorite pickup and just drop it into every guitar, but now I see I belong to the other school of thought — finding the right combination and taking an individual approach to each instrument.

What’s also interesting is that I always adjust the pole pieces so that each string has the same output level. In the case of this Ibanez with the Tone Zone, I left them flat, and it’s perfectly balanced.

What’s been your experience?

 

[Coma]

The right tool for the right job.

 

[beaubrummels]

I've never thought a pickup was bad, just different in different guitars. A Black Winter in my LP/SGs sounds sterile and like an active, requiring significant amp changes to have some character. Same pickup in my bright wood HSS Jackson has mid warmth and lots of character already.

 

[Chris Pile]

Absolutely. Different units for various guitars. The 2 have to blend together and work as a team. Some units are not a good match for some guitars. It's not rocket surgery.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I don't think I've had a radical change of heart like that.

When I first tried the Black Winter, I thought "yeah, it's cool, but I was expecting more". But that had to do with the guitar I had it in. It was weak and thin. Then I tried it in one of the best-sounding guitars I had, of course it shined, and it's one of my favorite pickups now.

But I always kinda liked the pickup, and other than that... I can't really think of another example. My favorite pickups work in a variety of guitars. They wouldn't be my favorite otherwise.

I love trying new pickups out, and there are so many cool ones to try that if a pickup doesn't have an immediate wow factor to me, it's probably not something I'll hold on to. That may seem radical, but selling or trading pickups until you find a killer one is not hard either.

 

[Top-L]

Hi! Have any of you ever thought about the fact that not every pickup you consider bad is actually bad in reality — that it might just be a wrong assumption?

Not long ago I tried a Tone Zone in my Strat and it sounded awful: lots of compression, muddy bass, and a harsh, ear-piercing top end. I couldn’t understand the hype around this DiMarzio classic at all.

Recently, however, I bought an Ibanez 421 HPAM, and this pickup in this guitar sounds great. It’s well balanced and, surprisingly, doesn’t have nearly as much compression as it did in the Strat. It sounds so good that I honestly wouldn’t change a thing.

I always thought I’d find my favorite pickup and just drop it into every guitar, but now I see I belong to the other school of thought — finding the right combination and taking an individual approach to each instrument.

What’s also interesting is that I always adjust the pole pieces so that each string has the same output level. In the case of this Ibanez with the Tone Zone, I left them flat, and it’s perfectly balanced.

What’s been your experience?

I dont think its as much about matching with the guitar, as it is matching with your amp and your expectations.

I spent a good 15 years buying/swapping pickups, and that whole time I didn't even understand how the pots affected the sound. I was usually just happy I got them wired in right.

 

[Top-L]

I love trying new pickups out, and there are so many cool ones to try that if a pickup doesn't have an immediate wow factor to me, it's probably not something I'll hold on to. That may seem radical, but selling or trading pickups until you find a killer one is not hard either.

I know its inflation, but I am just uncomfortable spending $100-150 on a new pickup. I find that my tastes are close to stock pickups anyway.

Only pickups I had to swap recently were a M400 that came with a Custom5 and a Jazz in the neck. This is a metal guitar and I don't know why they put those in there.

Back in the day you could get a Dimarzio for I think 60-70, and the reason I've tried half the Dimarzio catalog is because they were marginally cheaper than Duncans.

Back in the day (for your average player who read Guitar Player magazine) there was Duncan, Dimarzio, and what came in your guitar. Every pickup that has a wow factor usually sacrifices somewhere else. For a good 10 years I had Evolution sets in my two main guitars. Today they sound thin to me. They have a "wow" factor in their excess treble and "articulation", but they are thin compared to average stock humbucker. I can get the sizzle I want with an SD-1. Much better than chasing it with pickups.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I spent a good 15 years buying/swapping pickups, and that whole time I didn't even understand how the pots affected the sound. I was usually just happy I got them wired in right.

I feel like that, but adding the distance from the bridge itself to the bridge pickup.

At first, I couldn't really figure out why my Strat sounded so dull and blunt compared to my Les Paul. Like... it's a Strat, right? It's supposed to be bright and zingy? Then I realized the stock Fender pickguard has the bridge pickup like a mile off from the bridge itself compared to pretty much any other guitar manufacturer.

 

[Top-L]

I feel like that, but adding the distance from the bridge itself to the bridge pickup.

At first, I couldn't really figure out why my Strat sounded so dull and blunt compared to my Les Paul. Like... it's a Strat, right? It's supposed to be bright and zingy? Then I realized the stock Fender pickguard has the bridge pickup like a mile off from the bridge itself compared to pretty much any other guitar manufacturer.

Strats have the perception of being bright because of their acoustic tone. All the vibrations and resonance actually makes it a warm guitar. Which is why single coils are a match made in heaven.

I will have to pay more attention to the bridge distance.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

I will have to pay more attention to the bridge distance.

Yeah, each to his own. Gibsons have that distance shorter than most other brands. I like that, personally. But I've gotten along with LTD's and other guitars' distance just fine too. As long as it's not basically a middle pickup like some of those Fenders, LOL.

 

[Securb]

I don't think I've had a radical change of heart like that.

Same here. I have put pickups in guitars that sounded different, or the particular guitar brought out certain characteristics I like. I have never put a great pickup in a different axe and had it sound bad or unusable.

 

[Sam SG]

I expierianced similar. Maybe notvas drastic though
Years ago I used a JB in a heavy ash strat allways sounded good. Years later I had on in a mij strat thought it was dead and lifeless hated playing it sold the guitar.
Recently I had a mij hhr 50s strat with a JB...again lifeless and downright dead. Swapped pickups still hated it. Put together an alder strat and needed a humbucker to fill the hole till i could get one. Put that same JB in....while not my favorite pickup. It sounded pretty good in the alder strat( in an Im not a fan of hot puckups sorta way)

 

[beaubrummels]

Strats have the perception of being bright because of their acoustic tone. All the vibrations and resonance actually makes it a warm guitar. Which is why single coils are a match made in heaven.

I will have to pay more attention to the bridge distance.

AFAIK strats are brighter because the strings anchor into a floating bridge. Most vibration into the body I believe is coming via the tuners anchored into the headstock and transferred via neck, which is why the neck pocket and bolted down contact with the body is important.

 

[Top-L]

AFAIK strats are brighter because the strings anchor into a floating bridge. Most vibration into the body I believe is coming via the tuners anchored into the headstock and transferred via neck, which is why the neck pocket and bolted down contact with the body is important.

I have used flat shims in neck pockets and did not notice any change in tone.

I know that some people have advocated using partial shims to change neck angle, which you would think would ruin the tone, but they still do it and report there are no problems.

I don't have a theory for this. Maybe all the vibration is origniated through headstock and bridge (contact points). A bolt on neck may already be "decoupled" from the body so shims don't alter the way it resonates. The neck pocket is the farthest thing away from where the strings contact the guitar.

I still firmly believe that acoustic resonance is warmth when plugged. Taken to an extreme, hollow body guitars even warmer.

I believe that a chambered LP will resonate more (sell more guitars) and also be warmer. These days its probably impossible to say that strats are warmer than LPs, depending on the LP construction.

 

[beaubrummels]

I have used flat shims in neck pockets and did not notice any change in tone.

I know that some people have advocated using partial shims to change neck angle, which you would think would ruin the tone, but they still do it and report there are no problems.

I don't have a theory for this. Maybe all the vibration is origniated through headstock and bridge (contact points). A bolt on neck may already be "decoupled" from the body so shims don't alter the way it resonates. The neck pocket is the farthest thing away from where the strings contact the guitar.

I still firmly believe that acoustic resonance is warmth when plugged. Taken to an extreme, hollow body guitars even warmer.

I believe that a chambered LP will resonate more (sell more guitars) and also be warmer. These days its probably impossible to say that strats are warmer than LPs, depending on the LP construction.

If the neck is well-bolted down, even with a shim, vibration should transfer. Every point of contact is providing coupling. But pickups pickup the strings, not the body, so I believe the change would be more subtle plugged in. But the difference in what the strings are anchored into makes a bigger difference IME; e.g. bridges and tuners.

I don't agree on hollowbodies being warmer, or that Strats are warmer than LPs. That just hasn't been my experience. Also, my experience has been guitars that are thin and brighter acoustically seem darker or thicker/full when plugged in, and guitars that are dull acoustically are bright and even, full sound, when plugged in. My understanding is vibrations that are lost into the body aren't picked up by the pickups. If true, then my experience would make sense. But there could be other factors.

 

[Top-L]

Also, my experience has been guitars that are thin and brighter acoustically seem darker or thicker/full when plugged in, and guitars that are dull acoustically are bright and even, full sound, when plugged in.

We are in agreement.

My experience is that strats are very resonant/bright acoutcially. When you can identify resonance in a guitar its because it has high frequency energy which makes it sound more complete acoustically.

Strats are bolt on, with a floating trem and a pickup route that is almost like a soundhole. And the trem route goes through the body. Lots of stuff to vibrate. Thus resonant/bright acoustically, warm plugged.

My guitars that are heavier / less resonant / have more solid construction, also sound more full and bright plugged in.

 

[idsnowdog]

Pickups are more transparent than most people think.

 

[Mincer]

I think higher output pickups have a 'feel' that tends to be the same across instruments, even if the tone itself is different.

 

[Sam SG]

As far as neck shims and strats go. I allways just cut a sliver off a baseball card or likeca cereal box. Doesnt effect anything.
Strats resonance isnt only through the neck.
The type of bridge makes a differance. If youve ever swapped a sustain block from a thin zinc one to a full size steel one youll know.
Then there is blueprinting. In my strat days(20yrs) i used to remove the bridge and scrape the paint off the body with a razor blade were the bridge contacts the body. Scrap the pickup cavity and neck pocket
Also with string tension on crack all 4 neck screws and let the tension seat the neck in the pocket.
Also what tremolo springs you use will change the resonance. And lastly there is resonance to be had in adjusting the tremolo spring hook, allot of time a little angle increases resonance.

 

[Chistopher]

Neck shims this, acoustics that. I think the biggest differences between an HH Strat and Les Paul is the strings are a different length and the pickups are in a different spot.