satch tone?

[DirrtyCraig]

Re: satch tone?

The gear just gives him the color he desires, IMO.

Thats the best comment yet,, thats what I was trying to say, but not as well.
:yell:

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: satch tone?

As far as the value of fingers, sure, the gear makes all the difference in the world! But, if you did go out and buy everything SATCH from the guitar to the speakers, without the practice and experience, you will not sound like him.... Even with practice, there are lifetimes of habbits and techniques that Joe has repeated over and over that will seem awkward to the average guitarist....

There are strong arguments for both sides of this one, but the bottom line is that the gear is only an extension of the instrument.

If all the gear is connetced, but there are no fingers to do the input, you may be fortunate enough to at least hear some feedback. Wiggle your fingers. Yeah, you , right now, wiggle your fingers... Did ya hear any Satch like tones?

I didnt think so... There is an intimate bond between a virtuoso and his gear. The better they know each other, the more brilliant the music becomes!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: satch tone?

John Coltraine said: "If you want to be a better musician be a better man".

It's who you are "inside" that makes for what you sound like "outside".

Everyone wants the gear that will allow them to express themselves freely...but ultimately, if you can't play it with feeling and in an interesting, creative and soulful and human way that reaches out and reminds us all (listener and performer) that we're all connected: who cares? :smack:

Gear is by far secondary to talent, practice and who you are as a personality.

 

[FretFire]

Re: satch tone?

Well said Lew :clap:

 

[B2D]

Re: satch tone?

I think the "tone from the fingers" thing can best be said like this... two guitarists play the exact same rig; one player sounds weak, thin, unpronounced and the other sounds strong, bold, and defined.... One guitarist plays a B while the other plays a B-sting.

A big part of tone is the amount of energy transferred from your fingers to the strings as well as HOW it is transferred. Gear provides colors and flavors but it doesn't change the meal being served.

 

[BluesGuyJ]

Re: satch tone?

Although the Peavey JSX is very exspensive, the Marshall 6100 is also VERY exspensive. Seeing as how Joe doesn't use the Marshall's distortion, rather his Boss modded DS1, I'd look towards the DSL fiddy. He obviously uses the Marshall as a pedal palet. Now I'd suggest the DSL fiddy because it takes well to pedals and isnt nearly as exspensive. It may not sound the exact same, but it'll get you there, it also has a great clean as does the 6100.

 

[BluesGuyJ]

Re: satch tone?

I'd also like to add that with my JS1000BP, I can get a Satch tone out of a lot of amps. If I set my VGA3 to a Single Rectifier, add some delay and wah, I've got "Always with you, Always with me" right there. I'd suggest looking into a JS series guitar, or getting he same pickup set put in your guitar.

 

[B2D]

Re: satch tone?

To be honest I never really liked Joe's live tone with the Marshall 6100 that much... I liked it better when he was using JMP's or JCM800's, like on the live section of the Time Machine record. I don't know if he was using those amps set to a cleanish setting as well, using the DS1 as his primary distortion source but i like his tone way better there.

Plus you gotta account for the fact that Satch has gone through a LOT of tones since Not of This Earth. So it comes down to which one you want LOL. I think the DiMarzio PAF Pro and FRED help a lot though cuz coupled up with a hot tube amp, they get some weird overtones that are otherwise damn near impossible to get.

 

[TheArchitect]

Re: satch tone?

Well, A DS-1 into either of my 50 watt JMP's comes very, very close to the live Time Machine disk.

 

[dc_mally]

Re: satch tone?

http://guitargeek.com/rigview/293/

this is always a good place to start for setups.

 

[FretFire]

Re: satch tone?

I think the DiMarzio PAF Pro and FRED help a lot though cuz coupled up with a hot tube amp, they get some weird overtones that are otherwise damn near impossible to get.

That's very true. I had that set up in my Schecter not too long ago, and the Fred is such a WEIRD character. It's the only humbucker I've ever played that doesn't get fat and ballsy under distortion, it tightens up like a single coil. It also has that spike in the mids that gives it a very pronounced vowel sound. In my very LP-ish Schecter, this didn't sound good (it's pretty middy by nature) and it always sound honky and nasaly to me. In a wood like basswood or maybe alder they are very cool though.

 

[B2D]

Re: satch tone?

That's very true. I had that set up in my Schecter not too long ago, and the Fred is such a WEIRD character. It's the only humbucker I've ever played that doesn't get fat and ballsy under distortion, it tightens up like a single coil. It also has that spike in the mids that gives it a very pronounced vowel sound. In my very LP-ish Schecter, this didn't sound good (it's pretty middy by nature) and it always sound honky and nasaly to me. In a wood like basswood or maybe alder they are very cool though.

Coupled up with a Soldano, which has some interesting mid properties anyway, things get REALLY weird. I'm pretty sure thats what he used to get some of the howling, vocal tones on Flying in A Blue Dream (the entire record).

I've heard FREDs in Strats and they sound really nice. I agree with the statement about retaining tightness, too. Evolutions get fat and ballsy but retain tightness at the same time. :saeek:

 

[FretFire]

Re: satch tone?

I'd have to say my favorite Satch tone ever is "Always With Me, Always With You", there are just so many spots (especially the more intense solos towards the end) where his guitar sounds like it's speaking to you. Very cool pickups he helped design.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Re: satch tone?

My best analogy for the whole tone fingers thing is like driving a fast car, or a slow car, something that still works. But whats the point in driving a fast car if you dont know how to drive in the first place? On the other hand, a fast car might improve your driving, but not if you already know how to drive well, then you can drive anything, catch my drift?

 

[B2D]

Re: satch tone?

I think this sums it up;

Good player + bad gear = good sound

Good player + Good gear = GREAT sound

Bad player + bad gear = bad sound

Bad player + good gear = bad sound

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: satch tone?

I'd have to say my favorite Satch tone ever is "Always With Me, Always With You", there are just so many spots (especially the more intense solos towards the end) where his guitar sounds like it's speaking to you. Very cool pickups he helped design.

Me too. That's my favorite tune and favorite tone from Satch. Lew

 

[B2D]

Re: satch tone?

Me too. That's my favorite tune and favorite tone from Satch. Lew

As cool as that tune is... I feel the record version was done a little too fast and the guitar tone was too squeaky and compressed for my taste. Satch goes through so many sounds but I feel his newest record and Crystal Planet stand out among his catalog for tones.

 

[shred me good]

Re: satch tone?

As far as the value of fingers, sure, the gear makes all the difference in the world! But, if you did go out and buy everything SATCH from the guitar to the speakers, without the practice and experience, you will not sound like him.... Even with practice, there are lifetimes of habbits and techniques that Joe has repeated over and over that will seem awkward to the average guitarist....

There are strong arguments for both sides of this one, but the bottom line is that the gear is only an extension of the instrument.

If all the gear is connetced, but there are no fingers to do the input, you may be fortunate enough to at least hear some feedback. Wiggle your fingers. Yeah, you , right now, wiggle your fingers... Did ya hear any Satch like tones?

I didnt think so... There is an intimate bond between a virtuoso and his gear. The better they know each other, the more brilliant the music becomes!

nice point, im wiggling but i dont hear nada!
my point would be-
i have fingers, they push strings. in 10 years i will still (hopfully) have fingers, they wil control strings, they will make music!
but i feel that as the "bad" player in your gear comments (good gear+me=****!) i know that i WILL get good, eventualy. the fact that i can play the way i can play now, with almost no experience, lets me know that with experience i can only be better (if not even good!)

my thing is i dont want to buy **** that needs to be upgraded later on. i saved a grand for a guitar, its the best iv ever played, im happy! and while a vertuoso would make it cry, im just happy i can push the strings. after all i sound better on that than on a 50 quid encore....

so when im buying my amp i want somthing that wont need upgrading for a very long time. after buying this i intend to start on buying pedals, but i want a decent amp to run them through...

 

[FretFire]

Re: satch tone?

As cool as that tune is... I feel the record version was done a little too fast and the guitar tone was too squeaky and compressed for my taste. Satch goes through so many sounds but I feel his newest record and Crystal Planet stand out among his catalog for tones.

I agree, I really like his tone on "House Full of Bullets" from Crystal Planet, and "If I Could Fly" from the newest record. Two TOTALLY different sounds though.

 

[B2D]

Re: satch tone?

He goes through almost his whole range on Is There Love In Space... Bamboo has some especially haunting tones on there that are so simple yet have so much character.