Saturday Night Special

[darthphineas]

Re: Saturday Night Special

Of course it is. Specially when commenting a side-effect of the outcome of the product of the coils produced by one machine against three other different machines.

Exactly. That's also the core of a conversation to be had about how the Leesona has or hasn't been used with regard to the SNS set.

He could go all secretive with his tools of the trade, mind you. Somehow he chooses to open the doors of his workshop and share with all the internet to see and even sharing about some history notes and anecdotal data which, in fact, is pretty interesting for the geek inside some of us.

There are only a few working Leesona machines and ThroBak has 2 of them? He could shroud his Leesona machines in mystery and use them more for marketing tools than historical accuracy. But, like LtKojak says, the guy is choosing to share the knowledge. Is there a particular need to diminish the guy over it?

Then you take a dump on the poor guy, accusing him of fraud and deceit. You're NOT a nice person, thanaton. You're certainly NOT.

"Slagging" a competitor in such an insulting way seemed to be something the new and improved SDUGF wouldn't stand for.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Saturday Night Special

bottom line is, if you think throback is bs then dont buy em. there are plenty of people that do buy them and love them. marketing is what it is and it works for them. just like it works for the people that buy druid water

 

[Mincer]

Re: Saturday Night Special

You mean Druid water isn't better?

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Saturday Night Special

You mean Druid water isn't better?

Actually, it was unicorn dandruff diluted in the water what gave the "flavor" of the Druid water. By doing so, by definition, druids invented programmed targeted deception, aka Marketing.

Druids, masters of deception. thanaton was right all along... :wizard:

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Saturday Night Special

Classic skeptic vs romantic perspective. We project different things onto the same situation. If there's a graph the skeptic sees the tiniest little blip somewhere, and says it's worth nothing. Or it's within tolerance, so it's nonsense. The romantic sees the same thing as the magical difference between average and bliss. In the absence of graphs or charts the skeptic assumes it's all false, manipulative, marketing speak, etc. the romantic is vulnerable to hero worship, a maker tells them something is bliss, and they buy it and play it, already convinced of such.

The objective truth doesn't have to be somewhere in between. It's entirely possible for something to be measurable, and the skeptic still scoffs at it, and applies no value to it. At the same time the romantic sees it as worth 2x-10x in money and/or wait time. Neither are wrong.

But as suggested, where something becomes "wrong" is if a company claims something makes a "warmer" sound, or "rounder" which to me means a softening of the knee on the treble side, some kind of dampening of treble frequencies...and let's say we found out they were wrong about that, and that the technique ADDED treble for example, then we would have something to discuss. Until then, I think it borders on bashing competitors to just patently dismiss claims due to lack of suitable evidence.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Saturday Night Special

When the benefits of your product are subjective, maybe even dubious, of course it helps to have an illustrious backstory. It facilitates interest. It's like talking about how your purified bottled water came from a particular hill side where water had been drawn by Druids thousands of years ago, was believed to cause spiritual visions, later a favorite of Lady Margaret Beaufort, known today for it's curious "round" taste. You want to try some of that water.

I'm finding your posts about pickup making and its results, to the point of attempting to discredit professionals in the field, with some kind of self-righteous "authority" as dubious.

What are your credentials and who do you work for? What is your experience designing and building pickups? Do you play an instrument? Or just argue "science" with competitors who won't give you all their trade secrets?

 

[thanaton]

Re: Saturday Night Special

No technical explanation was provided as to what a "round" sound is, or why their Lesona winder would provide that sound. That's just the facts. Nobody should be criticized for stating facts.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Saturday Night Special

I think it borders on bashing competitors to just patently dismiss claims due to lack of suitable evidence.

^^^ this ^^^

I'm finding your posts about pickup making and its results, to the point of attempting to discredit professionals in the field, with some kind of self-righteous "authority" as dubious.

What are your credentials and who do you work for? What is your experience designing and building pickups? Do you play an instrument? Or just argue "science" with competitors who won't give you all their trade secrets?

^^^ this ^^^

No technical explanation was provided as to what a "round" sound is, or why their Lesona winder would provide that sound. That's just the facts. Nobody should be criticized for stating facts.

what is being said from about 3:20 until just after the "round" comment sure sounds like a "technical" explanation. he shows diagrams and shows the inside of that part of the machine and provides certain dimensions and discusses tolerance variations. I don't think you have said that you wind pickups... or if you do, if you have access to a Leesona 102... so maybe it's just that the gentleman is speaking in the most "technical" means available for a 60 year old technology in terms that are on a different level of understanding of what other people consider to be "technical"

and this still has not much to do with how the marketing verbage discussing the Leesona was removed from the SNS product.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Saturday Night Special

what is being said from about 3:20 until just after the "round" comment sure sounds like a "technical" explanation.

It's technical yes, but an explanation? Not even.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Saturday Night Special

As far as I'm concerned, he says something like "what I describe as a rounder tone" meaning that is his chosen descriptor. And the delta between his technical detail and his descriptive term is, quite honestly, not your information to have. He doesn't owe you any more than that. You either believe him or you don't. Buy a Throbak or don't. (I assume you won't, I don't own any either)

 

[LtKojak]

Re: Saturday Night Special

It's technical yes, but an explanation? Not even.

The explanation, which it's been addressed in the video, is that the mechanism driving the traverse affects the way the wire gets layed in the bobbin, causing the "round" tone, in comparison with other winding machines be uses.

Your arrogance is such as if you don't "get" something, it just doesn't exist, so you blame the guy for being part of a conspiracy plot? Your are hilarous! And silly.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Saturday Night Special

"Due to the tolerance variation in how the travel traverse works" is not an explanation. It's word soup.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Saturday Night Special

Hey, anyone know why all of a sudden all mention of the Leesona seems to have disappeared from the SNS ads? Very peculiar!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Saturday Night Special

"Due to the tolerance variation in how the travel traverse works" is not an explanation. It's word soup.

He basically says there's a hiccup or jitter every time it changes direction. So a scatter and/or tension hiccup every __ turns. Can you simulate this with another winder? Maybe. Who cares? If he comes in with high speed cameras, then he in effect teaches someone how to make a CNC winder duplicate the inconsistency.

If you want it to mean more than word soup, buy a Leesona 102 and start experimenting. Gundry doesn't owe you any more than what he disclosed. But instead of just being content not to buy a Throbak, it seems like you somehow have to make sure that no one else does either.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Saturday Night Special

You can't say "due to the tolerance variation in how the travel traverse works, it seems to make the tone round", because there is no causal link there.

You could say "there is a tolerance variation in how the travel traverse works, and pickups wound with this machine also have what we call a 'round' tone", which more accurately states correlation, but of course that's a much weaker, ineffective statement, from a marketing standpoint.

 

[darthphineas]

Re: Saturday Night Special

Hey, anyone know why all of a sudden all mention of the Leesona seems to have disappeared from the SNS ads? Very peculiar!

Exactly

 

[voggin]

Re: Saturday Night Special

You can't say "due to the tolerance variation in how the travel traverse works, it seems to make the tone round", because there is no causal link there.

You could say "there is a tolerance variation in how the travel traverse works, and pickups wound with this machine also have what we call a 'round' tone", which more accurately states correlation, but of course that's a much weaker, ineffective statement, from a marketing standpoint.

Speaking of word soup, I could eat a can of alphaghetti and s*** out a better argument than this.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Saturday Night Special

You can't say.....because...

You could say...

Then either start a pickup company, or a marketing company, and show 'em how it's done! Good luck, from the way you make it sound, you'll put everybody out of business!

 

[thanaton]

Re: Saturday Night Special

Speaking of word soup, I could eat a can of alphaghetti and s*** out a better argument than this.

Be my guest.

 

[thanaton]

Re: Saturday Night Special

Then either start a pickup company, or a marketing company, and show 'em how it's done! Good luck, from the way you make it sound, you'll put everybody out of business!

I would lie my *** off. There would be nobody to stop me. The govt. is too busy regulating things that actually matter. It's money on the table.