Scooped mids: a startling revelation

[DrNewcenstein]

While working with my Line6 M13 yesterday, I pulled up a Big Muff PI model. After tweaking the controls, I noticed that the Mid control works more like a filter sweep than an actual fixed-value Up/Down control like most Mid controls. I took a chance and cut it down to 0, and I hear classic Metallica tone coming out of my amp. Ride The Lightning, Creeping Death, and even something close enough to call Master Of Puppets (could be my speakers holding it back, could be the JCM800 I'm running into).

I was shocked. Not at the fact that I finally got a tone I'd been trying to get for almost 30 years (wow, RTL came out in 1984!), but at the fact that those who always called it a "scooped mids tone" didn't think to say "scooped mids on a Fuzz pedal specifically".

 

[CTN]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

i don't suppose you'd consider recording some clips?

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

While working with my Line6 M13 yesterday, I pulled up a Big Muff PI model. After tweaking the controls, I noticed that the Mid control works more like a filter sweep than an actual fixed-value Up/Down control like most Mid controls. I took a chance and cut it down to 0, and I hear classic Metallica tone coming out of my amp. Ride The Lightning, Creeping Death, and even something close enough to call Master Of Puppets (could be my speakers holding it back, could be the JCM800 I'm running into).

I was shocked. Not at the fact that I finally got a tone I'd been trying to get for almost 30 years (wow, RTL came out in 1984!), but at the fact that those who always called it a "scooped mids tone" didn't think to say "scooped mids on a Fuzz pedal specifically".

Well, that's the thing. I can't remember the specific frequency, but I remember a lot of guys using the Mark IIc+ model in the PODs and notching a very particular midrange frequency for that tone. You stumbled upon a control that does just that, but not in a graphic EQ manner but with a sweeping filter.

 

[MacBradley]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

The whole concept of not scooping "mids" as a general rule is pretty naive to begin with. The exact effect the "mids" control has on various equipment varies so drastically, not to mention the frequency response of different guitars, pickups, strings, scale, tilting effect generating by increased clipping, and just the very fact that when people refer to "mids" they can be talking about any frequencies over a multiple octave spectrum.

All gear sure have it adjust to sound good and mix well with the other instruments its playing with, not by preconceived notions. I think many guitar players would be shocked at what some the EQ work looks like on what they perceive as "mid scooped" or "mid boosted" tones on records.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

i don't suppose you'd consider recording some clips?

I'll see if I can find my SM57.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

The whole concept of not scooping "mids" as a general rule is pretty naive to begin with. The exact effect the "mids" control has on various equipment varies so drastically, not to mention the frequency response of different guitars, pickups, strings, scale, tilting effect generating by increased clipping, and just the very fact that when people refer to "mids" they can be talking about any frequencies over a multiple octave spectrum.

All gear sure have it adjust to sound good and mix well with the other instruments its playing with, not by preconceived notions. I think many guitar players would be shocked at what some the EQ work looks like on what they perceive as "mid scooped" or "mid boosted" tones on records.

The thing is I'm not hearing anything resembling a reduction in mids, as pertains to a graphic EQ, from the fuzz, but more of a shifting of what is boosted and what is not. There may be a small cut on a few bands, but certainly nothing where I would call it a graphic EQ set up in a smiley face or a hard V as I've seen suggested before. That's typically what results in a dead air radio tone.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Here's a playalong with Ride The Lightning. Not the whole track, of course, but enough to hear both parts.

http://newcenstein.com/mp3/KV2T_M13_212_RTL.mp3

Might sound a bit overly compressed.

I used my KV2T (can't recall what pickup in the bridge, but I don't think it's stock)
Line6 M13 with Fuzz PI pedal model
Marshall JCM800 head (Low input, Pres 6, Bass 4, Mid 2, Treb 5, Master 8, Pre 6)
Carvin VE212 cab with Carvin British 12s
Shure SM57

It varies by guitar and pickup, obviously, but for the guitar used, I had to tweak the amp's knobs. For the same track with a KV with an EMG 81 in the bridge, I had to back off the Presence and put the amp's Mid on 6.

 

[Diego]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

I do this:

Give my amp a lot of mids. I'll EQ something like 7/7/7.
Then with an Boss EQ in the loop I cut the low-ish mids (800 hz) by something between 3-5 db, and boost the high mids (1.6k hz) by a similar amount.

That keeps a cutting tone while eliminating the honky frequencies. Sounds good.

 

[Lampy H]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Holy cow, that clip is crazy close.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Holy cow, that clip is crazy close.

Spooky, isn't it?

The SM57 can't capture what I'm hearing out of the cabinet - it's way closer to what's coming off the original CD than this clip.

Gotta save my pennies for an MD421 I guess.

 

[Archer250]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

I actually thought that that was a new remastered version.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Whatever sonic sauce works for you. There is no one recipe for awesome.

 

[Synapsys]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

On Line6 stuff it actually makes sense reading the manuals and just start fiddling on tyhe controls, since they change from model to model and the manuals explain exactly in what way.

 

[Securb]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

I like this better than the original it is a lot fuller. Nice clip Doc.

 

[Lampy H]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

I thought your clip was a bit gainy for my taste, but to each his own.

 

[Diego]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Hadn't noticed the clip. Wow!
So close to the original Ride the Lightning tone. Love the low end response, so massive sounding. Like a 12 gauge on your chest

 

[dotsdad]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Thats pretty bad@$$ dude. Thanks for sharing!

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

I thought your clip was a bit gainy for my taste, but to each his own.

Well since I'm layering my guitar on top of the original tracks, gain is increased that much more. As well, there are fine tweaks I'd have to make in post-production, such as Presence and whatnot to smooth it out.

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

Well since I'm layering my guitar on top of the original tracks, gain is increased that much more. As well, there are fine tweaks I'd have to make in post-production, such as Presence and whatnot to smooth it out.

What's your track sound like isolated?

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Scooped mids: a startling revelation

What's your track sound like isolated?

http://newcenstein.com/mp3/Track 1_014.mp3

I didn't do a lead-in, just dropped the original into a track in Audition and recorded mine on a separate track. Intro's a bit sloppy. Haven't played for any length of time over the past 2 years and all my callouses wore off, so I was doing this with a big blister on the tip of my ring and pinky.

Listening to this in Winamp through my TV/PC monitor, it sounds overly compressed. Through my monitors it sounds fine, just balls-loud.

As an aside, those two in your sig pic look like they're dancing to RTL :lol: