series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
- Thread starter JeffB
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Ascension
Well-known member
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I have run for example the same pair of 8 ohm speakers in a 2/12 both ways and from just the speaker wiring I can't tell a tonal difference. On some amps however changing the ohm load notably changes the response and tone of the amp itself while the cab tone remained the same. You can see what I'm talking running an amp carefully at lower levels and switching the ohm switch in the back between 4/8/16 ohms. Be careful with this when running say at 4 ohms on the cab and 16 ohms on the amp that you don't push it or run it long as you can blow an output trans.
I have run for example the same pair of 8 ohm speakers in a 2/12 both ways and from just the speaker wiring I can't tell a tonal difference. On some amps however changing the ohm load notably changes the response and tone of the amp itself while the cab tone remained the same. You can see what I'm talking running an amp carefully at lower levels and switching the ohm switch in the back between 4/8/16 ohms. Be careful with this when running say at 4 ohms on the cab and 16 ohms on the amp that you don't push it or run it long as you can blow an output trans.
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TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
Laughing Kookaburra
Active member
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
My Avatar 2x10 cabs can do 4 or 16 ohms, and the Trinity 18 that powers them can do the same. I found that I had a bit more clean headroom at 4 ohms, just a bit. Otherwise, they sounded pretty much the same.
That's about the only time I've been able to truly compare/contrast. Other attempts over the years had different cabs and speakers. In the end, though, when in a band mix, the difference noted above probably won't amount to much, although I would still go 4 ohms if the clean was needed...death by a thousand cuts you know!
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My Avatar 2x10 cabs can do 4 or 16 ohms, and the Trinity 18 that powers them can do the same. I found that I had a bit more clean headroom at 4 ohms, just a bit. Otherwise, they sounded pretty much the same.
That's about the only time I've been able to truly compare/contrast. Other attempts over the years had different cabs and speakers. In the end, though, when in a band mix, the difference noted above probably won't amount to much, although I would still go 4 ohms if the clean was needed...death by a thousand cuts you know!
\
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I find par a bit tighter and more focused. With series being perhaps a bit looser, and more open. I have a couple cabs with ser/par mods. I lean towards series.
I find par a bit tighter and more focused. With series being perhaps a bit looser, and more open. I have a couple cabs with ser/par mods. I lean towards series.
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
The speaker will sound like the speaker. IF you DO hear a difference, it will be wrapped up in the the different load shown to the OT/Power Tubes.
People will say they hear a difference in everything.....up to/including/and beyond... capacitor dielectric, stranded or solid wire, new vs 5 week old amps, country of origin speakers built of the exact same parts, etc etc.
Either way.....not a big deal, but you can certainly experiment to see what you think.
good luck
The speaker will sound like the speaker. IF you DO hear a difference, it will be wrapped up in the the different load shown to the OT/Power Tubes.
People will say they hear a difference in everything.....up to/including/and beyond... capacitor dielectric, stranded or solid wire, new vs 5 week old amps, country of origin speakers built of the exact same parts, etc etc.
Either way.....not a big deal, but you can certainly experiment to see what you think.
good luck
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kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
From way back in the day in a P Palace thread referencing a Ted Weber post on his forum.
"Here is a Q&A piece from the WeberVST site on this very topic. I hope it helps somehow."
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"Q: I have two 8 Ohm speakers that I can wire either parallel or series to my tube amp for an impedance of either 4 or 16 Ohm. My amp has both 4 and 16 Ohm output taps. Are there any sonic differences or benefits of series over parallel wiring or vice versa?
A: Connecting two speakers in parallel is an old trick to smooth out speaker response and enhance the damping of either speaker. HIFI designers took it one step further by connecting two speakers of different sizes in parallel. A speaker has a large impedance increase at its fundamental resonance, and depending on the installation, this can cause the speaker to sound boomy or out of control. By connecting two speakers in parallel, particularly two speakers of different sizes with different resonant frequencies, each speaker will tend to quench or dampen the boominess of the other. Since no two speakers are exactly alike, even two of the same size, that damping will occur, however slight, for any speakers connected in parallel. For speakers connected in series, there appears to be less control, and more of what is called 'back EMF' from the speakers fed back into the output circuit. While that seems rather chaotic, many players prefer the series connection, as it gives them a more textured tone, enhanced breakup, and overall a more desireable tone for guitar work. It's totally subjective, of course, and many factors affect the end result, such as voice coil size, gap energy, closed back/open back, output circuit damping, etc. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is try both arrangements since you have the luxury of impedance tap selection, and go with the configuration you like the best."
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From way back in the day in a P Palace thread referencing a Ted Weber post on his forum.
"Here is a Q&A piece from the WeberVST site on this very topic. I hope it helps somehow."
-----------------------
"Q: I have two 8 Ohm speakers that I can wire either parallel or series to my tube amp for an impedance of either 4 or 16 Ohm. My amp has both 4 and 16 Ohm output taps. Are there any sonic differences or benefits of series over parallel wiring or vice versa?
A: Connecting two speakers in parallel is an old trick to smooth out speaker response and enhance the damping of either speaker. HIFI designers took it one step further by connecting two speakers of different sizes in parallel. A speaker has a large impedance increase at its fundamental resonance, and depending on the installation, this can cause the speaker to sound boomy or out of control. By connecting two speakers in parallel, particularly two speakers of different sizes with different resonant frequencies, each speaker will tend to quench or dampen the boominess of the other. Since no two speakers are exactly alike, even two of the same size, that damping will occur, however slight, for any speakers connected in parallel. For speakers connected in series, there appears to be less control, and more of what is called 'back EMF' from the speakers fed back into the output circuit. While that seems rather chaotic, many players prefer the series connection, as it gives them a more textured tone, enhanced breakup, and overall a more desireable tone for guitar work. It's totally subjective, of course, and many factors affect the end result, such as voice coil size, gap energy, closed back/open back, output circuit damping, etc. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is try both arrangements since you have the luxury of impedance tap selection, and go with the configuration you like the best."
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Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I find parallel a tad rounder/darker/smoother..while series is slightly edgier/more open & maybe sustains a bit more too..
I find parallel a tad rounder/darker/smoother..while series is slightly edgier/more open & maybe sustains a bit more too..
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
Does parallel wiring universally 'smooth out' the frequency response of the speakers to an extent that you can hear it regardless of note being played and whether the resonant frequency is being reinforced by playing that exact pitch or a harmonic of it? I don't know, and I find it to be specious reasoning, especially since the resonant peak is below the range reached by a typical guitar tuned in Standard.
Far more believable to me is the fact that changing the impedance alters the damping of the amplifier itself and that MIGHT affect (effect?) the tone, but given a guitar amp's performance in real world terms, I find this hard to believe.
Gonna have to give this a whirl, of course; and if it's not recordable, it can be labeled under Ephemera...
Interesting theory, but that quote over-simplifies it, I think. There are so many other factors involved in loudspeaker design, especially speakers with an internal crossover. The other issue is regarding the resonant frequency itself, which will only occur across an exact instance of time.
Does parallel wiring universally 'smooth out' the frequency response of the speakers to an extent that you can hear it regardless of note being played and whether the resonant frequency is being reinforced by playing that exact pitch or a harmonic of it? I don't know, and I find it to be specious reasoning, especially since the resonant peak is below the range reached by a typical guitar tuned in Standard.
Far more believable to me is the fact that changing the impedance alters the damping of the amplifier itself and that MIGHT affect (effect?) the tone, but given a guitar amp's performance in real world terms, I find this hard to believe.
Gonna have to give this a whirl, of course; and if it's not recordable, it can be labeled under Ephemera...
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
That was Ted Weber talking, not me. . Best thing you can do is to try it. I have a series par on two 2/12 cabs, the feel is very different. I can offer this, one cap ( even same value with a different brand) , one resistor, one tube, all make a difference. I have learned that electricity and sound are actually quite organic, and much like cooking, everything is an ingredient.
That was Ted Weber talking, not me. . Best thing you can do is to try it. I have a series par on two 2/12 cabs, the feel is very different. I can offer this, one cap ( even same value with a different brand) , one resistor, one tube, all make a difference. I have learned that electricity and sound are actually quite organic, and much like cooking, everything is an ingredient.
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
Way back when, with one of my Traynor's that are fixed at 8 ohm, I had 2 2/12 cabs, one wired series with 4ohm and the other wired Par with 16 ohm speakers. I ended up rolling with the 4 ohm in series and trading the other cab. While they were not the same speakers, ( I have so many cabs of different configurations, and am always tinkering with speakers) my response was as much to the general feel of the cab. Par feels restricted or tighter to me, which for many is a desirable thing, but not me.
Way back when, with one of my Traynor's that are fixed at 8 ohm, I had 2 2/12 cabs, one wired series with 4ohm and the other wired Par with 16 ohm speakers. I ended up rolling with the 4 ohm in series and trading the other cab. While they were not the same speakers, ( I have so many cabs of different configurations, and am always tinkering with speakers) my response was as much to the general feel of the cab. Par feels restricted or tighter to me, which for many is a desirable thing, but not me.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
Yep, I got that, brutha.
I agree with the try-and-see advice; nothing beats first hand experience. But if the difference is not documentable ... ? I am simply not a tinkerer to that degree, I guess.
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I have too many toys and too much curiosity not to pull out the soldering iron. The document for me is my ears, and it was enough for me to form an opinion. It actually all started when I read that thread on the PP forums and that was 04 or 05. I now for the most part run 16 ohms on all my cabs other than one 8, and 2 switchable 4 or 16.
I have too many toys and too much curiosity not to pull out the soldering iron. The document for me is my ears, and it was enough for me to form an opinion. It actually all started when I read that thread on the PP forums and that was 04 or 05. I now for the most part run 16 ohms on all my cabs other than one 8, and 2 switchable 4 or 16.
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I am a huge fan of 16 Ohms as well, but it has nothing to do with series or parallel wiring for me. Higher impedance = more iron. That is a much bigger factor in what one would hear (in my opinion) than the wiring schema.
I am a huge fan of 16 Ohms as well, but it has nothing to do with series or parallel wiring for me. Higher impedance = more iron. That is a much bigger factor in what one would hear (in my opinion) than the wiring schema.
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I just have more 16 ohm amps, my Traynor's only see 8 ohms, but the mismatch to 16 gives a bit more grind.
I just have more 16 ohm amps, my Traynor's only see 8 ohms, but the mismatch to 16 gives a bit more grind.
kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
As to the bigger factor, if you ain't tried it?? It makes a very noticeable difference to me.
As to the bigger factor, if you ain't tried it?? It makes a very noticeable difference to me.
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
I guess if a guy could play the same speakers, wired for the same load in series and parallel, and then identify which is which in a blind test.......
Yeah...it is the Impedance difference....not the series vs parallel.
I guess if a guy could play the same speakers, wired for the same load in series and parallel, and then identify which is which in a blind test.......
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kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this.
Just gonna have to agree to disagree on this.
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
But let me ask you this.....have you ever done it.? (that is to say...in a blind test, with somebody else making the changes)
Have you ever been able to toggle between the same speakers, but one set // and the other set series.?
The closest I have ever come was with Eminence Private Jacks.
2x 8 at 4 Ohms and 2x 8 at 16 Ohms.
Not exact, but about as close as you can come.....of course the caveat is that you are running a Multi-Tap OT. Ideally it would be the same. One way has more current and less voltage.....the other (of course) has less current and more voltage.
I had just 2 players and a Marshall 1986 clone. Neither of those 2 guys could tell me which was which on a consistent basis.
Of course, "my experiment" would need to be repeated several times with many players to say it was definitive.....but I did make an effort.
In the end (as you imply).....it really only matters what each player hears.
I hate posts where some guy gets shot on because he preferred a PV Classic 30 over a Two Rock and a Red Plate.
good luck
Nothing "wrong" with that.
But let me ask you this.....have you ever done it.? (that is to say...in a blind test, with somebody else making the changes)
Have you ever been able to toggle between the same speakers, but one set // and the other set series.?
The closest I have ever come was with Eminence Private Jacks.
2x 8 at 4 Ohms and 2x 8 at 16 Ohms.
Not exact, but about as close as you can come.....of course the caveat is that you are running a Multi-Tap OT. Ideally it would be the same. One way has more current and less voltage.....the other (of course) has less current and more voltage.
I had just 2 players and a Marshall 1986 clone. Neither of those 2 guys could tell me which was which on a consistent basis.
Of course, "my experiment" would need to be repeated several times with many players to say it was definitive.....but I did make an effort.
In the end (as you imply).....it really only matters what each player hears.
I hate posts where some guy gets shot on because he preferred a PV Classic 30 over a Two Rock and a Red Plate.
good luck
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kevlar3000
Bullet Proof Toneologist
Re: series vs. parallel speaker wiring....sonic difference?
If you read my posts completely, yes. A Traynor Bassmaster with 8ohm Hammond iron, 2 2/12 cabs one wired par with 2-16 ohm celestion g12-65, the other wired series with 2 4ohm Emi squareback. Both speakers I am a huge fan of. One Sunn vertical 2-12 cab and one Traynor Vertical 2-12, both similar size and sound. I heard the difference so clearly that the Sunn cab was sold. I know the difference between the sound of ohm mismatching as I do it all the time, this was not the same. With 40 vintage amps, currently 7 different cabs, and a soldering iron I have used extensively, I have been able to do pretty much all the sonic experiments I have wanted vs just theorize on what they might be. I am extremely hands on with TONES vs a singular tone. Generally speaking, you change one thing sonically, it will always change another thing. I remember the days of folks saying there was no difference in the sound of an orange drop or a mustard cap, a Brit tube or a Russian tube, a tone cap in a guitar , and on and on. I as I stated I try the things I am curious about, and feel good enough about my ears to type about it.
If you read my posts completely, yes. A Traynor Bassmaster with 8ohm Hammond iron, 2 2/12 cabs one wired par with 2-16 ohm celestion g12-65, the other wired series with 2 4ohm Emi squareback. Both speakers I am a huge fan of. One Sunn vertical 2-12 cab and one Traynor Vertical 2-12, both similar size and sound. I heard the difference so clearly that the Sunn cab was sold. I know the difference between the sound of ohm mismatching as I do it all the time, this was not the same. With 40 vintage amps, currently 7 different cabs, and a soldering iron I have used extensively, I have been able to do pretty much all the sonic experiments I have wanted vs just theorize on what they might be. I am extremely hands on with TONES vs a singular tone. Generally speaking, you change one thing sonically, it will always change another thing. I remember the days of folks saying there was no difference in the sound of an orange drop or a mustard cap, a Brit tube or a Russian tube, a tone cap in a guitar , and on and on. I as I stated I try the things I am curious about, and feel good enough about my ears to type about it.
