Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

[WhooHoo]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

The photos are attributed to 1976, if you read the site's link. And I have no idea how you can tell that that white or cream-colored pup is a "mighty mite" pickup. It could be a 1959-1960 PAF when they were using white bobbins. It is kinda neat to see him play a rosewood Fender with a 'bucker stuck in the bridge. The first-ever HSS guitar.

I've said what the dates are and how to ID the Mighty Mite pickup, why don't you reread it.
Ever hear of zooming in.
I don't know how much you have seen about all this (not much by the looks) but it is basically common knowledge on VH forums that these pickups are Mighty Mites and this info has been around for years.
The Mighty Mite models from old 70s catalogs have been matched with Ed's club photos.
I don't know what the big deal is, the Mighty Mites were basically DiMarzio Super Distortions the Seymour probably had a hand in, sounds good to me.
Ed was still using a Mighty Mite for VHII but it was in the Destroyer by this time.

btw have a look at the Mighty Mite pickup height in the photos.
When Ed is using the Seyour rewound PAF in 1978, Ed has the thing as high as it could possibly go to get every last drop of gain from it, the Seymour rewound PAF is not a hot wind it's the 9k EVH78 Seymour specs.
EVH78 Eddie Van Halen 1978. Evenly Voiced Harmonics.
Close ups of this pickup exist in the Japan 1978 photos 6/17/78 Tokyo, JPKosei Nenkin HallN/A and it is indeed a genuine PAF.

The photographer does not remember exact dates especially from 33 years ago.

I am not going to explain everything in immense detail but here are some parts


If you have a look at the photos you will see a Motels logo in a corner.

Van Halen did a date with the Motels in the first half of 1977 which I said above.

http://www.rocknvideos.com/vhtourdates.html

01/15/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo Randy California/The Motels
01/18/77 Hollywood, CA The Starwood Y & T (Headliner)
01/19/77 Hollywood, CA The Starwood Y & T (Headliner)
01/27/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo Berlin Brats
01/28/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo Berlin Brats/Orange
01/29/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo Berlin Brats
02/18/77 Pasadena, CA Pasadena Civic Center Smile/Smokehouse
02/25/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo The Motels
02/26/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo The Motels

There is another Ed Mighty Mite pickup photo that is from the Mumps date

05/27/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo Lance Loud & The Mumps
05/29/77 West Hollywood, CA Whisky A GoGo Lance Loud & The Mumps


This is around the time when the Warner Brothers Demos (After Zero) were recorded just after VH got signed and there is a boot from the next date that VH played.

It's generally taken that the Warner Brothers Demos (After Zero) and VH1 have a lot in common and were recorded within a few months of each other.

The 1978 World Tour starts

3/03/78 Chicago, ILAragon BallroomN/A

and it's before this sometime in early 1978 that Ed gets the PAF rewound by Seymour and dumps it in the B&W Franky which wasn't always B&W but started out just painted Black and the Destroyer started out just painted White and was still White in early 1978 and Ed did the shark mod and stripes after VH1, in early 1978 just before the 1978 World tour started.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

http://musikfoto.com/rockpics.php?tsk=view&tag=Van Halen

There are other club photos of Ed using a Mighty Mite ceramic at the end of May 1977 as well.

There are other interesting things in these pictures:
- rosewood fingerboard (sweeter highs?)
- spiral cable (same as above)
- in almost every pictures the pickup selector is in the neck position (mounted backward? )
- angled pickup (as often found in the following years)

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

what about this pickup? Dimarzio SD?
http://www.nealsvintage.com/images/other/evh_82_charvel.jpg

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

That's very odd. An '82 non-Floyd bumblebee. If he did use and play it, where and when? As far as using high-wind ceramics, that's what he uses today, but his tone is quite different than it was.

I just simply do not hear a hot ceramic tone in any of the early records, unless compressors or other studio tricks altered the tone in some way to make a SuperD sound like a PAF.

 

[MattPete]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Why put a 9k PAF so close to the strings if the amp is not basically stock.
The reason Ed's got the rewound PAF up so high is to get as much gain from it as possible and he would not need to do that if the amp was modded with a cascade or something else.
John Suhr might have seen Ed's main amp in the early 90s, but the front end solder joints were original according to him (except a fat cap on V2), so there has never been a front end cascade or preamp gain mod and this has been backed up by Dave Friedman who does amp work for Ed.

You don't need a cascade or a hot pickup to get the sound, just a cranked Plexi. In fact, a cascade sounds all wrong, and gives you a compressed sound that you can not clean up when rolling down the volume or playing more softly, as Ed does in many of his songs (I have a cascade switch on my Plexi ["one-wire mod"], so it is easy for me to play with).

Likewise, a hot pickup is all wrong. They don't clean up well when the volume is backed off, and they tend to sound middy instead of clear when played clean. That's the big area where the 59/CC hybrid fails.

It really is just a PAF through a cranked Plexi with Greenbacks. I was shocked at how easy it was to get the tone. It's not something you get at bedroom levels unless you powerscale, but a post-phase inverter MV will get you close. Heck, the sizzle of a distorting phase-inverter is part of his tone.

Forget pedals, hot pickups, reamping, etc. It really is that simple.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Yeah, the only problem with powerscaling or using a plate for lower volumes is that you don't get the speaker breakup, which I feel is another critical element in some of the great guitar tones like Ed's. You can get a ballpark amp sound, but you still lose some of the speaker growl.

I have to admit and I agree that the '59/CC combo is not nearly as "clean up-able" as the stock '59. However, I'm not trying to nail a Van Halen sound at all and I stuck an A8 mag in there to get a more even EQ around the neck. The A2 is very lacking in bass and treble and the A5 is too scooped for my taste. I really am going for a more even voicing around the neck, where there aren't peaky areas in certain areas and wimpy spots in others.

 

[Brett5150]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

what about this pickup? Dimarzio SD?
http://www.nealsvintage.com/images/other/evh_82_charvel.jpg

Yes, that's a Dimarzio SD - just like I said in my first post from Ed's own words - he took a Dimarzio SD and rewound it himself and put a Gibson PAF magnet in it.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

Well, looking at their gig schedule from '74 on, I can't imagine how and when he'd have the time to rewind a pickup by hand. Not to say he didn't, but a guy who couldn't figure out how to rewire a simple three-position switch, probably isn't going to be able to wire up the coils once their wound.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

This thread is turning out really funny.
Please put some other link to pictures, they're very interesting.

BTW, the pickup swap game I do is just to find a sound that I like with my rig, I'm not into mimic anyone and, really,I don't believe it could be possible to replicate his sound, even using the same woods and electronics.
You know, two pieces of ash wood sound different, you can only imagine how many variables are involved in, but it's interesting to plot down the timeline of the Van Halen sound evolution because it is however a conerstone for everyone, especially DIYers.

+1

If anybody but Ed played the REAL guitar through the REAL amp in question, it would not sound right. However, I've heard some damn good renditions and, like I said, the Duncan '59 comes closest to my ear, that and the demo on the Metroamp site with the Les Paul plugged into the 12xxx Super Lead replica.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I think the PG is closest when I am playing the guitar. I think the A2 gets it a bit closer.

All that said, I don't really want that sound. But, when we are younger and learning we pursue the tones of our heros and we learn what we like through the trials at getting the sounds of our heros.

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I think the PG is closest when I am playing the guitar. I think the A2 gets it a bit closer.

All that said, I don't really want that sound. But, when we are younger and learning we pursue the tones of our heros and we learn what we like through the trials at getting the sounds of our heros.

One thing we can be sure of, is that he was using a 10-band EQ with a "frown"-curve, according to Landee in old interviews. So if he was using an early 60's PAF with an A5, he probably boosted the mids and softened the highs and lows with the EQ.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

They don't clean up well when the volume is backed off, and they tend to sound middy instead of clear when played clean. That's the big area where the 59/CC hybrid fails.

I don't completely agree, mine (59n/CC + UOA5) cleans nice, not a ringing bell but definitely not middy and muddy.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

One thing we can be sure of, is that he was using a 10-band EQ with a "frown"-curve, according to Landee in old interviews. So if he was using an early 60's PAF with an A5, he probably boosted the mids and softened the highs and lows with the EQ.

I don't think we can be sure of anything. Even Landee's recollection is not above scrutiny. When I am looking for a sound in the studio 4-5 pedals come in and out of the chain in just a min or two. Its likely EVH was the same way. Further, Landee/Templeman were enamored with Ed and his sound/playing. I think it very plausible they waited for Ed to be happy with what he was hearing and then setup the mics. I don't know that they were too concerned about what was happening in the chain in front of the speaker cab.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I think the A2 gets it a bit closer

As I said before, of all my guitars, in my rig, the one more similar to VH sound is my poplar tele with maple neck and a GFS alnico II

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

That's very odd. An '82 non-Floyd bumblebee

Have you seen the bridge? Only two screws, the 2nd and the 5th, very interesting, I have to try something similar (I think a hard wood is needed to keep them in place).
Strange saddles too, I wonder if it's really a vh guitar, they seem the type mounted on fender american standard.

 

[marcello252]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

...and what if Mr. Van Halen in person were here in the forum under a mysterious nickname, adding false information, just having a big laugh about it?

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

...and what if Mr. Van Halen in person were here in the forum under a mysterious nickname, adding false information just have a big laugh about it?

Considering his well know quote about people on forums needing to "get a life" its unlikely. If he is here he would be pimping his new stuff

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

...and what if Mr. Van Halen in person were here in the forum under a mysterious nickname, adding false information just have a big laugh about it?

Doubt it. They haven't updated the official site since LAST New Years and I don't think Ed is much of an internet guy. But who knows...

 

[IanBallard]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I'm sure Ed isn't so harsh on his fans who defend him, as much as the dooshnozzles who dredge up his past substance issues and personal life. He loves his fans and appreciates them, as well as up and coming artists who he feels really care about what they do. The interview with he and Iommi was very cool, since it's clear his early life as a poor kid and having to deal with schmucko "big name" 70's guitar idols when he was coming up, gave him some perspective.

Sure, some people do need to get a life. I've got kids, a job and a life... I just need to escape from time to time.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: Seymour duncan custom custom Van halen sound

I'm sure Ed isn't so harsh on his fans who defend him, as much as the dooshnozzles who dredge up his past substance issues and personal life. He loves his fans and appreciates them, as well as up and coming artists who he feels really care about what they do. The interview with he and Iommi was very cool, since it's clear his early life as a poor kid and having to deal with schmucko "big name" 70's guitar idols when he was coming up, gave him some perspective.

Sure, some people do need to get a life. I've got kids, a job and a life... I just need to escape from time to time.

You are awefully certain about a lot of things you can't possibly have any knowledge of....