Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
The Black Winters seem very nice for extreme Metal
The Black Winters seem very nice for extreme Metal
Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
- Thread starter Rabelais
- Start date
Joey Voltage
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
If you want to stick with Duncan i would go with the alt8 in the bridge and maybe something like a full shred bridge in the neck. I wouldnt bother with a lot of the neck specific models for your needs.
If you want to stick with Duncan i would go with the alt8 in the bridge and maybe something like a full shred bridge in the neck. I wouldnt bother with a lot of the neck specific models for your needs.
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Ben1962
Guest
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
I have the A8/Demon combo and I love it. Sounds massive but not harsh, but I am more inexperienced than some here. Nazgul sounds harsh to me, the Pegasus I love and the Alt8 I love as well. Not many people ever say the Alt8 with the Sentient, I guess they have their reasons but I would bet sound kller
I have the A8/Demon combo and I love it. Sounds massive but not harsh, but I am more inexperienced than some here. Nazgul sounds harsh to me, the Pegasus I love and the Alt8 I love as well. Not many people ever say the Alt8 with the Sentient, I guess they have their reasons but I would bet sound kller
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Ben1962
Guest
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
It's to the point that it makes the neck position sound like it has an identity crisis;
Could you elaborate on that Gregory?
It's to the point that it makes the neck position sound like it has an identity crisis;
Could you elaborate on that Gregory?
gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
To me it still sounds like a bridge pickup in the bridge position. All the rich full singing vocal sound of the neck position gets neutered. Aside from the nice pick attack, it is cold and sterile: the polar opposite of what I want a neck pickup to sound like.
I haven't tried it, but (ignoring the Benedettos) I honestly believe the Perptual Burn is the best higher-than-vintage neck pickup Duncan has to offer. The Black Winter Neck being a close second after that.
FWIW and YMMV!
The Sentient could be a good pickup with an Alt8 in the right guitar. I think it would be too weak for my tastes, being better left for cleans. Then again I buck the Duncan philosophy when it comes to the purpose of a neck pickup, especially for high gain lead work.
To me it still sounds like a bridge pickup in the bridge position. All the rich full singing vocal sound of the neck position gets neutered. Aside from the nice pick attack, it is cold and sterile: the polar opposite of what I want a neck pickup to sound like.
I haven't tried it, but (ignoring the Benedettos) I honestly believe the Perptual Burn is the best higher-than-vintage neck pickup Duncan has to offer. The Black Winter Neck being a close second after that.
FWIW and YMMV!
The Sentient could be a good pickup with an Alt8 in the right guitar. I think it would be too weak for my tastes, being better left for cleans. Then again I buck the Duncan philosophy when it comes to the purpose of a neck pickup, especially for high gain lead work.
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gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
With an A3 I could see that working.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
Greg, not to steal the thread, but I'm kinda considering sucking it up when it comes to looks and getting the FS-neck... how would you say it compares to the PAF Pro or the Jazz? Would you say it's similar in any way to those at all? Out of the two, I think I prefer the Jazz, but I thought it was a bit too scooped and kinda weak. I like the fact that the PAF Pro isn't as scooped, but I wasn't a fan of its super mega present/scratchy/chirpy attack. Do you think the FS-N could be a good middle ground?
Greg, not to steal the thread, but I'm kinda considering sucking it up when it comes to looks and getting the FS-neck... how would you say it compares to the PAF Pro or the Jazz? Would you say it's similar in any way to those at all? Out of the two, I think I prefer the Jazz, but I thought it was a bit too scooped and kinda weak. I like the fact that the PAF Pro isn't as scooped, but I wasn't a fan of its super mega present/scratchy/chirpy attack. Do you think the FS-N could be a good middle ground?
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gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
The FSn has a very clicky (articulate?) pick attack. It has some emphasis (congestion?) in the upper-mids. It has a tight, lean bottom end. It is pretty hard to make mushy, and if you do manage to get it mushy, there is no way anything else besides a vintage output single coil wouldn't be worse.
From DiMarzio, the closest thing is the HFH which has a somewhat different character. While it is still tight and single coil-like EQ, it has a flatter, more even response through the mids/upper-mids. It is often described as piano-like.
I guess I understand why people call the Jazz scooped, but to me that has more to do with the guitar, the elevation of the pickup and the treble response of the pickup. To me it sounds like the Jazz has a fairly low Q with a fairly high resonant peak. You get a nice HF extension but no upper-mid focus or bite.
The PAF Pro is fatter and fuller. While it has some treble, the response it is more smooth and not nearly as bright. It is a lot hotter as well. In terms of output it is in a different class from the FSN, HFH and JazzN. With the same amp settings, pairing a PAF Pro with an equal or weaker output pickup in the bridge will require that you either lower it quite a bit or deal with a thin sounding bridge position; otherwise prepare yourself for a visit to either mush or boom city.
Have you looked at the Steve Morse Neck?
Nope.
The FSn has a very clicky (articulate?) pick attack. It has some emphasis (congestion?) in the upper-mids. It has a tight, lean bottom end. It is pretty hard to make mushy, and if you do manage to get it mushy, there is no way anything else besides a vintage output single coil wouldn't be worse.
From DiMarzio, the closest thing is the HFH which has a somewhat different character. While it is still tight and single coil-like EQ, it has a flatter, more even response through the mids/upper-mids. It is often described as piano-like.
I guess I understand why people call the Jazz scooped, but to me that has more to do with the guitar, the elevation of the pickup and the treble response of the pickup. To me it sounds like the Jazz has a fairly low Q with a fairly high resonant peak. You get a nice HF extension but no upper-mid focus or bite.
The PAF Pro is fatter and fuller. While it has some treble, the response it is more smooth and not nearly as bright. It is a lot hotter as well. In terms of output it is in a different class from the FSN, HFH and JazzN. With the same amp settings, pairing a PAF Pro with an equal or weaker output pickup in the bridge will require that you either lower it quite a bit or deal with a thin sounding bridge position; otherwise prepare yourself for a visit to either mush or boom city.
Have you looked at the Steve Morse Neck?
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Ben1962
Guest
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
What is the Duncan philosophy? For me, I like a violin type liquid sound on the neck for the lead stuff. I usually dont even like the neck so much till after the 10th fret or so with higher amounts of gain. The higher on the neck the better the sound of the neck to me. I still get that sound from the Demon, but I am just a home player as you know
What is the Duncan philosophy? For me, I like a violin type liquid sound on the neck for the lead stuff. I usually dont even like the neck so much till after the 10th fret or so with higher amounts of gain. The higher on the neck the better the sound of the neck to me. I still get that sound from the Demon, but I am just a home player as you know
Mark Le Comte
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
I'd probably stay Dimarzio for what you describe. Super 3, maybe dominion or titan.
I'd probably stay Dimarzio for what you describe. Super 3, maybe dominion or titan.
gregory
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
No matter, what you like is all that matters, regardless of what or where you play. One man's trash and all that. For me the Screamin' Demon is the cat's meow for a stock bridge pickup from Duncan in the bridge position. I like all the qualities it provides, especially in a 25.5" guitar that has a nice upper bass response.
I think Duncan's philosophy for pairing a neck pickup with a high-output bridge pickup is for it to be significantly brighter and weaker. It is a place to go for big cleans when played by itself. It adds sparkle to the midrange of the bridge when the two are combined either for cleans or for mid-gain. For high-gain lead work the idea is to translate the voicing from the position without being muddy. Want it to sing, kick in a mid-focused OD. All very good and compelling reasons.
I like all that stuff; I just want it to be full and sing without the OD. At the same time, I still want the neck position to be bright and clear and I want this quality to apply over a wide range of the fretboard. Ever since I moved from high-output bridge pickups to medium-output bridge pickups it has been easier to get the best of both worlds. I find I can make up the rest of the difference by using hotter-than-vintage single-spaced pickups in the neck. They give me more push in the mids while remaining tight and bright. I also like neck HBs designed by DiMarzio, especially to pair with high-output bridge pickups. Both types can still be very good for clean work.
To go with the violin analogy, I guess I prefer a viola.
No matter, what you like is all that matters, regardless of what or where you play. One man's trash and all that. For me the Screamin' Demon is the cat's meow for a stock bridge pickup from Duncan in the bridge position. I like all the qualities it provides, especially in a 25.5" guitar that has a nice upper bass response.
I think Duncan's philosophy for pairing a neck pickup with a high-output bridge pickup is for it to be significantly brighter and weaker. It is a place to go for big cleans when played by itself. It adds sparkle to the midrange of the bridge when the two are combined either for cleans or for mid-gain. For high-gain lead work the idea is to translate the voicing from the position without being muddy. Want it to sing, kick in a mid-focused OD. All very good and compelling reasons.
I like all that stuff; I just want it to be full and sing without the OD. At the same time, I still want the neck position to be bright and clear and I want this quality to apply over a wide range of the fretboard. Ever since I moved from high-output bridge pickups to medium-output bridge pickups it has been easier to get the best of both worlds. I find I can make up the rest of the difference by using hotter-than-vintage single-spaced pickups in the neck. They give me more push in the mids while remaining tight and bright. I also like neck HBs designed by DiMarzio, especially to pair with high-output bridge pickups. Both types can still be very good for clean work.
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BleedingFingertips
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
Alt8 or PATB-2
Alt8 or PATB-2
speed2dirt
Butterball
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
Fuglybucker... :wall:
Don't judge a book by its cover. It's full, warm, round, with singing sustain.
Fuglybucker... :wall:
Don't judge a book by its cover. It's full, warm, round, with singing sustain.
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Ben1962
Guest
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
I just play in standard, sometimes half step down
I just play in standard, sometimes half step down
Joey Voltage
New member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
Have you tried it with the a5?
Have you tried it with the a5?
Demanic
PenultimateTone Member
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
I have an Alt8 in a guitar tuned to D, with the occasional switch to drop C. It works just fine. It's as heavy as my guitar with an X2N in it, but different. The Alt8 has more of a low mid clank to it, so to me it sounds more modern.
Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk
I have an Alt8 in a guitar tuned to D, with the occasional switch to drop C. It works just fine. It's as heavy as my guitar with an X2N in it, but different. The Alt8 has more of a low mid clank to it, so to me it sounds more modern.
Sent from my Alcatel_5044C using Tapatalk
Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
I still use a JB in the bridge, as I have since the 90s, but my metal tone can move through time by choosing different amps. I can give you grunge and shred and groove or I can give you anything now, all from the JB. Call me heretical. FWIW Alder Strat.
Even more heretical is my neck pickup. Its a Norton. Not the Air Norton, just an old Norton. 12-some k and A5.
You WILL be told this is too muddy to work in the neck. You WILL be told chords will lack detail. You WILL be amazed how overblown the common wisdom is. Not all good sounding neck pickups are scooped or even low-output
I've known folks to have luck with a Custom Custom in the neck, and the SH-6n Distortion neck, formerly known as the seymourizer II, they are equally hot wound but sweet sounding options. You'll hear stories of Super Ds and JBs as neck pickups. Forums will scoff. Must be a myth, or maybe just someone's best kept secret.
Edit: I forgot my main point! They compliment each other well. The JB has what is universally called the high mid spike. The Norton's mids are more low-focussed. They sit in different sonic spaces on their own, which is good, and together are incredibly rich and complex, in all the right ways.
I still use a JB in the bridge, as I have since the 90s, but my metal tone can move through time by choosing different amps. I can give you grunge and shred and groove or I can give you anything now, all from the JB. Call me heretical. FWIW Alder Strat.
Even more heretical is my neck pickup. Its a Norton. Not the Air Norton, just an old Norton. 12-some k and A5.
You WILL be told this is too muddy to work in the neck. You WILL be told chords will lack detail. You WILL be amazed how overblown the common wisdom is. Not all good sounding neck pickups are scooped or even low-output
I've known folks to have luck with a Custom Custom in the neck, and the SH-6n Distortion neck, formerly known as the seymourizer II, they are equally hot wound but sweet sounding options. You'll hear stories of Super Ds and JBs as neck pickups. Forums will scoff. Must be a myth, or maybe just someone's best kept secret.
Edit: I forgot my main point! They compliment each other well. The JB has what is universally called the high mid spike. The Norton's mids are more low-focussed. They sit in different sonic spaces on their own, which is good, and together are incredibly rich and complex, in all the right ways.
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Re: Seymour Duncan humbuckers with fat treble for Metal?.
I've paired a Super D and an X2N up with a Super 2 in the neck, but the Super 2 is brighter.
The Super 3 would also be pretty fat in the neck. Hell, Mike Romeo from Symphony X uses an X2N with a regular Tone Zone in the neck for some pretty beefy neck tones.
I once had a Jackson Kelly with dual Invaders... both bridge versions, and that also worked very well.
A Norton would definitely work in the neck with an equal or hotter bridge pup like that Super Distortion. I've got a Norton in the bridge of my Hamer Special with a '59 neck. I actually thought about putting a Norton in the neck at one time, but can't bring myself to do it now as I like the '59 too much.
I've paired a Super D and an X2N up with a Super 2 in the neck, but the Super 2 is brighter.
The Super 3 would also be pretty fat in the neck. Hell, Mike Romeo from Symphony X uses an X2N with a regular Tone Zone in the neck for some pretty beefy neck tones.
I once had a Jackson Kelly with dual Invaders... both bridge versions, and that also worked very well.
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