Seymour Duncan mV Data

Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Okay, so the engineering folks realized that the earlier version had been sent along, so this is the final version that contains a couple corrections. I've corrected the original as well. It seems this final version contains corrections for those things pointed out earlier. I'll try and get with them to answer some of the questions raised here like whether it just captures peak, etc.

This new list contains Blackouts as well, enjoy!

SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-2n Jazz Model 501
SH-2b Jazz Model 571
SH-3 Stag Mag 389
SH-4 JB Model 737
SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
SH-8n Invader 491
7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
SH-8b Invader 813
7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-10b Full Shred 724
SH-11 Custom Custom 574
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
Black Winter, HB Neck 744
Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
6Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Scott Olson said:
Okay, so the engineering folks realized that the earlier version had been sent along, so this is the final version that contains a couple corrections. I've corrected the original as well. It seems this final version contains corrections for those things pointed out earlier. I'll try and get with them to answer some of the questions raised here like whether it just captures peak, etc.

This new list contains Blackouts as well, enjoy!

SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-2n Jazz Model 501
SH-2b Jazz Model 571
SH-3 Stag Mag 389
SH-4 JB Model 737
SH-5 Duncan Custom 784
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
SH-6b Duncan Distortion 792
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
SH-8SGn Synyster Gates,&Chr,Neck 491
SH-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
SH-8n Invader 491
7Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
8Str Invader Nk, Pmt 491
7Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
8Str Invader Brg, Amt, Soapbar 813
SH-8b Invader 813
7Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
8Str Invader Brg, Pmt 813
SM-2n Custom Mini-Humbkr 216
SM-2b Custom Mini-Humbkr 327
SM-3n Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 330
SM-3b Seymourized Mini-Humbkr 354
SH-PG1n Pearly Gates 513
SH-PG1b Pearly Gates 543
SH-10n Full Shred 709
SH-10b Full Shred 724
SH-11 Custom Custom 574
PA-TB1b Original Parallel Axis 749
PA-TB1n Original Parallel Axis 515
PA-TB2b Distortion Parallel Axis 741
PA-STK1n Parallel Axis Stack 291
PA-TB3b Blues Saraceno Model 694
SH-12 Screamin' Demon 500
SH-13 Dimebucker 1160
SH-14 Custom 5 Black 646
SH-15 Alternative 8 Black 761
SH-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
SH-18b Whole Lotta HB bridge 440
SH-18n Whole Lotta HB Neck 382
Black Winter, HB Neck 744
Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
7Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
7Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
8Str Black Winter, HB Neck 744
8Str Black Winter, HB Bridge 763
6Str Pegasus Brg. 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Amt, Soapbar 555
7Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
8Str Pegasus Brg, Pmt 555
6Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Amt, Soapbar 666
7Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
8Str Nazgûl Brg, Pmt 666
6Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Amt, Soapbar 499
7Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
8Str Sentient Neck, Pmt 499
Jason Becker - bridge Black 582
TB-59 '59 Trembucker 593
TB-4 JB Trembucker 737
TB-5 Duncan Custom Trembkr 784
TB-6 Duncan Distortion Trmbkr 792
TB-8SGb Synyster Gates,&Chr,Brdg 813
TB-PG1b Pearly Gates Trembkr 543
TB-APH1B Alnc II Trembucker 499
TB-10 Full Shred Trembucker 724
TB-11 Custom Custom Trembkr 574
TB-12 Screamin' Demon Trembkr 500
TB-14 Custom 5 Trembkr Black 646
TB-15 Alternative 8 Trembkr Black 651
TB-16 59/Custom Hybrid, 625
Black Winter, TB Bridge 763
Pegasus Trembucker, Bridge 555
Nazgul Trembucker, Bridge 666
Jason Becker - TB bridge Black 582
APH-1n Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 452
APH-1b Alnc II Pro Humbuckr 499
APH-2n Slash Alnc II Pro HB 475
APH-2b Slash Alnc II Pro HB 524
LW-CH2n,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 534
LW-CH2b,LiveWire II,Classic,HB 936
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,n 1080
LW-Must LiveWire Dave Mustaine,b 1368
AHB-1n Blackouts, Neck 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts, Bridge 1598
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Nk 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 1, Br 1598
AHB-1n Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Nk 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts 7-Strg Phase 2, Br 1598
AHB-2b Blackouts Metal HB 3648
AHB-1n Blackouts, 8strg, Neck 1283
AHB-1b Blackouts, 8strg, Bridge 1598
AHB-3n MickT Blackouts HB Neck Bk 1079
AHB-3b MickT Blackouts HB Bridge Bk 1419
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1079
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7-Str Ph 1 1419
AHB-3n Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1079
AHB-3b Mick T Blackouts 7Str Ph 2 1419
AHB-10n Blackouts Coil Pack Nk 1829
AHB-10b Blackouts Coil Pack Brg 1870
AHB-11n Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Nk 1725
AHB-11b Gus G Fire Backout Coil Pack Brg 1784
SH-1n '59 Model 7-Strg 572
SH-1b '59 Model 7-Strg 593
SH-2n Jazz Model 7-Strg 501
SH-4 JB Model 7-Strg 737
SH-5 Duncan Custom 7-Strg 784
SH-10n Full Shred Neck 7-Str 709
SH-10b Full Shred Brg 7-Str 958
SH-14 Custom 5 7-Str 646
Click to expand...

there we go, that's a bit better and meshes with my experience of a bunch of those pickups. Are the Eng. guys gonna do this for all the single coils, soapbars, and custom shop pups as well?

also, not to be rude, but just a helpful hint from a guy who used to execute national digital marketing campaigns for a telecom giant...next time releasing an important thing meant to make a major impact, maybe double and triple check everything that's being released so as to release the correct things and maximize the impact you hope to achieve. :)
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

The custom and distortion being hotter than the BW kinda confirms my belief that heaviness is achieved by EQ, not gain.
Sent from my RM-915_apac_thailand_213 using Tapatalk
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

It would be interesting to see at least one pickup from another manufacturer tested to see close it is to their publicized specs.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

darthphineas said:
that's when you go to the forum to ask...being sure to also not include type of amp, style of music, or what it is about the current pickups you don't like
Click to expand...

Ah my friend I thing you are referring to the posts that look like this. "I have an Epiphone Les Paul Express. I am a metal shredder. Which pickup will give me more purple without losing gain?"
 
Last edited:
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Securb said:
Ah my friend I thing you are referring to the posts that look like this. "I have an Epiphone Les Paul Express. I am a metal shredder. Which pickup will give me more purple without losing gain?"
Click to expand...

purple. lol!


true story: an audio guy I know did FOH for Santana. Carlos walks by on the way to do something and tells him that he wants the guitar on this song to sound like red wine. and then Carlos says he wants the guitar on this other song to sound like white wine. then off he goes. the audio guy re-names a few patches in one of the processors in the rack. a bit later, when Carlos comes back the audio stops him at FOH and shows him a patch setting for 'red wine' and one for 'white wine'. Carlos was happy.

another true story: same audio guy. this time he was doing monitor mix for Fabulous Thunderbirds. they are at soundcheck and Jimmie Vaughn's daughter was there and sits down on the bench during rehearsal next to the audio guy. they are done and they walk over to side of the stage. I guess the singer wasn't terribly familiar with Jimmie Vaughn's family, as he leers at the girl and asks how old she is. "15", she answers. "ah," he ponders, "you must be old enough to take it in (an uncomfortable place)". Jimmie lays the singer out on his ass right there on the stage and admonishes him, "don't you EVER speak to my daughter AGAIN!"

one more: nothing to do with that audio guy, but back to colors. the owner of a studio I worked in told me this one. this one band came in to check out the facility. they had this pseudo Elvis impersonator for a singer. they said he REALLY like the color blue. so before they came in for their booking, the studio owner put a blue light in the ISO booth. the King was in the castle for that session.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

I have been waiting for this list since like, forever ago.

Getting MV to MV comparison data is such a hard thing to do but it sounds like you guys have built the rig to do it!

I'd love to see what some competitor models are rated at on your rig. But I know that probably won't happen. ;)

Many thanks to you and the team, Scott!
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Scott Olson said:
7Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
8Str Distortion Brg, Amt, Soapbar 792
...
7Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
8Str Distortion Brg Pmt 792
7Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Amt, Soapbar 732

SH-6n Duncan Distortion 732
7Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
8Str Distortion Nk,Pmt 732
Click to expand...

Are the 7/8 string values simply being copied over from the 6 string versions? Does your test rig accept 7/8 string space pickups?
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

idsnowdog said:
It would be interesting to see at least one pickup from another manufacturer tested to see close it is to their publicized specs.
Click to expand...

DiMarzio's outputs are mV values also, but these SD figures are all much higher. DiMarzio shows 250 mV output for their 36th Anniversary PAF, SD shows 399 for the Seth Lover, so we could make an assumptive leap and say the DiMarzio method yields values that are roughly 60% of SD's method.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

DreX said:
DiMarzio's outputs are mV values also, but these SD figures are all much higher. DiMarzio shows 250 mV output for their 36th Anniversary PAF, SD shows 399 for the Seth Lover, so we could make an assumptive leap and say the DiMarzio method yields values that are roughly 60% of SD's method.
Click to expand...
Which can be interpreted that while the MV values stated are useful for comparing pickups from the SD catalog, these figures are less useful when comparing other manufacturers pickups since we don't know how they test their pickups?
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

DreX said:
DiMarzio's outputs are mV values also, but these SD figures are all much higher. DiMarzio shows 250 mV output for their 36th Anniversary PAF, SD shows 399 for the Seth Lover, so we could make an assumptive leap and say the DiMarzio method yields values that are roughly 60% of SD's method.
Click to expand...

I question DiMarzio's method. The perceived output isn't truly consistent. To me, the Breeds sound hotter and louder than the Tone Zone, yet the TZ has a greater mV value, according to their website.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Archer250 said:
The perceived output
Click to expand...

This is the problem... its not a perception its a measurement. Not a surprising one either. Your ears perceive the extra highs from the breeds easier where the extra output of the TZ is in the low mids that you dont perceive as easy.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Edgecrusher said:
This is the problem... its not a perception its a measurement. Not a surprising one either. Your ears perceive the extra highs from the breeds easier where the extra output of the TZ is in the low mids that you dont perceive as easy.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting point actually. There's no guarantee that the peak reading is at a frequency that's easiest for the human ear to register. It's perfectly possible that the pickups that sound loudest to us have their peak at the best point for us to detect it.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Scott Olson said:
SH-55n Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
SH-55b Seth Lover Model Nkl 399
Click to expand...

I was just about to conduct my own tests with my Seth Lovers, to see how the match against SD's figures, but I hit a snag; they show the same output for both the bridge and neck, and my set definately has a hotter bridge. SD's site says the bridge should be hotter (darker/more resistant) also:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/comparetones/view/93

DC Resistance:
Neck: 7.2 k
Bridge: 8.1 k

Resonant Peak:
Neck: 8.14 KHz
Bridge: 5.9 KHz

So which one puts out 399 mV, surely it can't be both of them?

Another thing I determined is that the mVs are definitely not at the peak resonance, because their test harness is strumming strings, which will not produce a strong frequency in that high of a hHz range. A strummed open E chord produces most voltage between 76 kHz and 648 kHz, so I guess the RMS is mostly based on activity in that frequency range. When the auto measurement is showing close to 399 mV with the Seth Lover, the frequency spectrum analysis is showing that hardly any of the harmonic peaks are reaching quite that high, but the lower frequencies come the closest, around 200 kHz, so I'm guessing the mV values are more bass oriented than treble oriented.. which makes sense, since you need more energy in the low end for the same perceived output. If that's true, these readings are really going to say more about the bass output of a pickup than it's overall output, because the characteristics of the high end frequencies are small, and get buried in that mV value.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

Maybe I can help.

First, a millivolt reading shouldn't really care about the frequency. It's like an 11 lb rock vs. 11 lbs of sand. What does need to be accounted for is the loading and frequency response going in. If the signal was x-pass filtered above or below a certain point, it could trick the reading I suppose, but that's probably not the case. Just for example, say you LPF @ 12khz because you believe "nothing important is going on there" but above 12khz can completely affect the amount of "sizzle" in your overdrive, therefore giving a much greater sense of saturation. A pickup with a higher resonant peak has more info up there. (Again I'm not suggesting they did that, just making the observation)

Scott the real question you'll need to have answered by engineering (which does dovetail into the points Drex is making) is the input impedance.

Most of these machines:
http://literature.cdn.keysight.com/litweb/pdf/5989-7819EN.pdf
have a 50k input impedance. Does everybody get that? If the pickup is straight in to the machine with BNC connectors and clips, as Scott says, then (unless there's a 1Meg input) all of these pickups are seeing a 50k load. This actually has the opposite effect of what you guys are theorizing. Instead of the mV reading being thrown by a tall resonant peak, all the resonant peaks would be flattened to the point that they don't really sound "as different" to one another. The best data, in my experience is for the pickups to see something like a 250k load or higher. With this test equipment I believe that would require a buffered preamp, even the Pickup Booster, anything that rails above the highest possible pickup signal.

If all of these pickup tests were done into a 50k load, guys that's like having a 50k volume pot (or 2x100k) on your guitar. If that's the case then this discussion, which so far has been centered around how different resonant peaks could account for perceived volume, is kind of the opposite, because the peaks have been severely flattened.

Perhaps more significant is that it would skew the delta between all the actives and all the passives. All the actives would be fine into 50k, their amplitude not being squashed, while the passives would be at a disadvantage.

As for the frequency content of the strum, I believe Dimarzio states they use either 1 string tuned to A, or an A chord. (I could be wrong) if it were 1 string, I could see the mismatch. If it's an entire chord, but it's an A, then pickups with resonant peaks that are multiples of A could theoretically read higher. Not because the millivolts care about frequency, but because you've hit the pickups strongest input acceptance. The way Duncan is doing it would be better because although not intentionally randomized (there are still 2 E's and an A) it's better than a chord.

Dimarzio also (I believe) listens to a longer segment, further away from the initial attack (more RMS, less peak) as someone who tests pickups, if I were to use an old strum tester I would want to see from at least 100ms out, to 500ms. Reading between 50ms and 100ms is like picking 64th notes. It doesn't render the reading useless, it's just you have to know "this is how loud it is when I pick it, not as a chord decays" and the reason that's important is because different magnetic circuits will sustain differently, but also when they start comparing it to Strat pickups with Alnico poles, the attack/decay ratio is much different. So on paper a single coil could look similar in output to a humbucker but for normal chords they're more different.

Hope this helps, I haven't even really scratched the surface of how to interpret the data but we need the input impedance/load before we can make sense of it.
 
Re: Seymour Duncan mV Data

frankfalbo said:
Dimarzio also (I believe) listens to a longer segment, further away from the initial attack (more RMS, less peak) as someone who tests pickups, if I were to use an old strum tester I would want to see from at least 100ms out, to 500ms. Reading between 50ms and 100ms is like picking 64th notes. It doesn't render the reading useless, it's just you have to know "this is how loud it is when I pick it, not as a chord decays"
Click to expand...

Thanks for all the good info.

I found that I had to strum the strings pretty aggressively to get 400 mV output from the Seth Lover neck, with the pickup pretty close to the strings. The input impedance of my osciliscope is "1M ohm || 20 pf".

I hope SD decides to just do inducted frequency response curves for all these pickups, that would be a total gold mine of info.
 
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