SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

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gibsonsg630

New member
I have been planning on getting an ESP LTD Deluxe EC-1000 MGO and was thinking of swapping out one/both pickups. I was looking for a Mark Morton/Lamb of God type of tone. Looking for a full, chunky sound that's not too bright or dark as well as being well defined. I would like to be able to have enough punch that cuts through the drums and bass. I have had bright, muddy tones for some time due to high output pickups (Gibson 490R/498T and a pair of SH-6's in my two main axes) and when I play live with loud volume you can't even tell the notes apart. Hell, you can't even hear yourself think with all the annoying feedback. Everything was so muddy and loose (yes I know, that's what she said) with every tone on my amp that I tried (Peavey 6505+ tube amp), so now you know where I'm coming from.
So like the title says, which would achieve that sound I'm looking for? I know Mark used a pair of 59's before going to dimarzio. The way I look at it: sh-14 is like a higher output 59; and the sh-5 is brighter, heavier sh-14 with the ceramic magnet. I didn't immediately go with the 59s because I figured Mark has more of a stacked set up that could achieve a powerful sound with just vintage pu's. So I figured I'll go with something that has more output since my amp is not to the level of Mark's. Would the sh- 5 be too bright (heard online its highs were "nasally")? And would the sh-14 have enough output or distortion for those chugging riffs without? Whichever I choose I'll probably pair with a 59, good idea? The ESP that I would be putting the pick up in has a mahogany body with rosewood fretboard, and is very light and slim (7.9 pounds). Forgive me for any contradicting tones I mentioned as well as the length of this essay-length question. Any help would be appreciated.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Welcome to the forum. The EC-1000 is one beautiful guitar.
Doesn't it have active pickups? If so, do you want to stay with an active setup?

Other than that, I'll keep the recommendations to others, who actually play live. ;)
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

I'd like to know how you managed to get a Distortion to sound muddy. I didn't even think that was possible.

But the choice isn't that big anyways. The two models only differ in magnet. If you want higher output, a sharp top end, and tighter lows, go with the SH-5. If you want a bit lower output, a scoop in the mids, and perhaps bigger lows, go SH-14. I say perhaps bigger lows, because I find the Alnico 5 to be fatter on the bottom, perhaps because the mids are lacking a bit. If you think you chose wrong, though, find the other type of magnet and put it in there. Personally, my favorite is the Custom 8 in a Les Paul.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Fwiw, in spite of the usual description here, I don't find the SH-5 all that scooped, and I generally like very midrangey pickups like a Breed Bridge, JB, Super 3. If it was honestly as 'scooped' as people claim, I wouldnt dig it, but I do.

I think the SH-5 is a very cool sounding pickup in that it will do vintagey tones but it can also really rock if you want it to.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

I'm down with Ray's ear for tone, and I also use some of the pups Ray mentioned, but the C5 just left me flat. I was looking forward to liking it, but it didn't do anything for me. maybe not as 'scooped' as it just didn't have that midrange bark I'm used to. then again, everyone uses different amps with different settings in different guitars... what might not work for some can work great for others.

but reading between the lines of a few things the OP is saying, I'd suggest the 59/C Hybrid.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

I'd recommend the SH5. The SH14 will lack mids and be a bit too "vintage" sounding for what you're going for. I can't understand why people perceive the SH5 as scooped. It's not scooped at all, it has a lot of mids. The tone chart is actually pretty accurate with regards to the SH5.

That being said, both the SH5 and SH6 that you tried are very tight (almost stiff) pick ups on the low end. If your sound is mushing out, it might have more to do with how your EQing your amp or the amp itself than the pick up. I guess what I'm saying is that if you're getting mush with an SH6, you will get it with an SH5 too and it's probably not the pick up.

However, for the needs your expressing I'd choose the SH5 over the SH14. I've used both, and play mostly metal and a lot of LOG and the SH5 is by far the better pick up for that style. The SH5 is fantatsic for metal overall and has the tight low end for fast and articulate palm mutes. The ceramic just takes whatever gain you throw at it and holds together very nicely. I guess the highs are not as smooth as an A2 magnet, but I honestly find them less biting than an A5 and also very articulate for fast trem picking or any type of shred runs you want to do.
 
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Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Jeff5 said:
I'd recommend the SH5. The SH14 will lack mids and be a bit too "vintage" sounding for what you're going for... for the needs your expressing I'd choose the SH5 over the SH14.
Click to expand...

+1. Custom SH-5 is a better fit for what you're doing. If you're playing blues and classic rock with an LP or SG, a C5 (SH-14) is the better of the two.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Thank you guys for all the responses! It has really helped me with my decision, looks like I'm going with the sh-5. Last questions I have left are: how the sh-5 performs clean; if it's capable of achieving a PAF or vintage sound (no big deal if it doesn't, it'd just be an awesome perk if it did); and does it have that kind of punch that cuts through the sound of the drums and bass? When you guys say it isn't really that scooped, does is it still have a good chunk in the sound, or are those two terms basically the same thing? I don't exactly have a firm grasp on tones yet. Not trying to bombard you guys with all the questions, just trying to get the best possible idea of how it sounds before buying it. Thanks again!
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Yeah what Darth said. Fender chimey cleans? No. Decent enough cleans? Sure. I play maybe 10-20% of the time clean, if that, and it's good enough for me. It shouldn't distort your amp by itself if that's enough for you. A5s and A2 magents are generally better if you're playing majority clean, but for a Ceramic I think the Custom is very passable.

By not scooped we mean that the pickup has midrange. It's not a V shape (all high and low end and no mids). What this does is enable you to shape your tone more with your EQ and if you want a metal/scooped mid tone, your amp and another other EQ will provide that and the Custom can still cut through the mix. Chunk? Oh yeah, it has chunk and muscle. The Custom is a beast for high gain metal.
 
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Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Ya just something clean enough to get me through. Other than that everything is pretty much cleared up, I always thought scooped was a lack of mids (like a smiley face shape). Thanks for the clarification.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

gibsonsg630 said:
Ya just something clean enough to get me through. Other than that everything is pretty much cleared up, I always thought scooped was a lack of mids (like a smiley face shape). Thanks for the clarification.
Click to expand...

It is man, I meant to say NOT scooped lol. Scooped is lack of mids, like a smiley or V. The Custom is not scooped.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

haha I gotcha, I could have sworn thats what scooped meant lol. But that's definitely a plus, I'd rather have chunk over scooped
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

I never have my gain passed 3:00, I swapped out the sheffield speaker in the peavey for a celestion v30
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

I also want to know how you made a Distortion sound muddy. Same with a 498T. I think something else is amiss with your rig. BTW: the C5 and 498T are very, very similar-to my ears, effectively interchangeable.
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

formula73 said:
I also want to know how you made a Distortion sound muddy. Same with a 498T. I think something else is amiss with your rig. BTW: the C5 and 498T are very, very similar-to my ears, effectively interchangeable.
Click to expand...
Maybe I was using the wrong term but basically there was no articulation or clarity when I played. I realize that theres only so much you can get when using distortion but even power chords were mushing out. My rig is pretty basic, just a Peavey 6505+ tube combo. I'm by no means a professional musician with any high quality gear. But I figured with a simple setup there shouldnt be too many issues to arise. I messed around with the eq plenty of times, maybe I'm not using the right combo. My usual eq at home is: low-6 mid-4 high-6 reverb-3 resonance-1 presence-9 (I did try lowering the presence to no avail). How would you compare the regular custom to the 498T?
 
Re: SH-5 Custom or SH-14 Custom 5

Also which neck pick up would match best with the sh-5: 59, jazz, or the alnico ii thats already in the guitar?
 
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