Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

[2ndhandband]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

I'm sorry, but your statement is illogical. In my experience, there is no such thing as a perfect guitar...at ANY price. To expect a man-made item from organic material to be perfect is incredibly illogical. It just can't be. Beware, these lofty expections have a way of making one a very unhappy and perennially unsatisfied person. We all want them to be perfect. Some expect perfection at $500, some at $799, some like you at $1000, some at $2000, etc. But understand this...they are NEVER perfect. NEVER. I'm not trying to be mean, but this is the real world.

And trust me, this goes triple for "Trophy Wives"!

-----




Bill

You can say that, but blatant fit/finish flaws or subpar fretwork should never even get out of the factory at that price... never, not once. The fact that the cheap Korean stuff is consistently coming out better in those areas speaks volumes.

Here's the real elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about: you can't make a competitively priced guitar to an acceptable quality standard in the US because labor costs. With global labor arbitrage being what it is the only guitars being made in the US at this point should be custom shop stuff. But you get a lot of people who will continue to overpay for Fender/Gibson simply because of the name on the headstock and country of origin, so there it is.

 

[akio]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

If you have the budget and patience, perhaps a Ken Lawrence?

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

You can say that, but blatant fit/finish flaws or subpar fretwork should never even get out of the factory at that price... never, not once. The fact that the cheap Korean stuff is consistently coming out better in those areas speaks volumes.

Here's the real elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about: you can't make a competitively priced guitar to an acceptable quality standard in the US because labor costs. With global labor arbitrage being what it is the only guitars being made in the US at this point should be custom shop stuff. But you get a lot of people who will continue to overpay for Fender/Gibson simply because of the name on the headstock and country of origin, so there it is.

I agree. But it does happen. And like I said, even on top-line guitars. I have 14 Gibsons, and I have been very selective. None of them have any real glaring factory flaws. One did have a minor wiring issue, probably jarred in transport, but a five minute fix.

But none of the Gibsons are perfect. Neither are my MIK and MIJ Ibanez guitars. Doesn't mean I love them any less. No guitar is perfect.

As to Fender, I can say that I have owned a Leo Fender made or designed guitar my entire career, be it vintage Strat, Music Man or G&L. These days my only Fender-branded guitar is a MIJ Precision Lyte bass. All of my current "Fender" guitars are Music Man or G&Ls and the G&Ls are my number one brand...I own 18. They are the perfect "Strat" for me.

And none of them are PERFECT.

Bill

 

[kherman]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Love my 2007 Explorer Pro. Slightly smaller body. Fits me better. Feels more comfortable. Love the no pickguard and bound body and neck look. Small build run. Excellent build quality. Worth keeping an eye out for. 2005's are even sharper looking with the ebony board and bock inlays.

 

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Nice!

Bill

 

[Adieu]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Ibby Destroyer (NOT a reissue)

 

[Adieu]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Here's the real elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about: you can't make a competitively priced guitar to an acceptable quality standard in the US because labor costs. With global labor arbitrage being what it is the only guitars being made in the US at this point should be custom shop stuff. But you get a lot of people who will continue to overpay for Fender/Gibson simply because of the name on the headstock and country of origin, so there it is.

Nonsense.

Simple google search shows:

Fender USA and Martin labor: $10-24 / hour
Fender Mexico: $1.50 / hour ("nearly $60 / week")
Japan factories: $20-30+/ hour

MiJ factories PAY BETTER. Charge same or less.

...and make better instruments too.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

The big question is, how strict are you on headstock shape and shape in general?

Hi Bloodrose,

In short - I am not dead set on an exact Gibson copy. There are certainly some models which get too cartoony for me (for lack of a better word). For instance though I do quite like the look of the Schecter take on the shape, Ibanez destroyers I can't quite make my mind up, I like to keep an open mind though!


Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Nonsense.

Simple google search shows:

Fender USA and Martin labor: $10-24 / hour
Fender Mexico: $1.50 / hour ("nearly $60 / week")
Japan factories: $20-30+/ hour

MiJ factories PAY BETTER. Charge same or less.

...and make better instruments too.

The MIJ stuff is overpriced, too. Here's my equation: A Dillion Phoenix (I am using this example because I have one) goes out for a street price of $600-$700 new. SO, any Gibson Firebird or Firebird copy that costs more than that needs to be a demonstrably better instrument. You won't achieve that at American OR Japanese llabor prices, which is simply the best argument I can think of for offshorng production. I don't care... at all... where they make it.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Love my 2007 Explorer Pro. Slightly smaller body. Fits me better. Feels more comfortable. Love the no pickguard and bound body and neck look. Small build run. Excellent build quality. Worth keeping an eye out for. 2005's are even sharper looking with the ebony board and bock inlays.

Yeah, I love those too!!! Want one bad!!

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Hi Bloodrose,

In short - I am not dead set on an exact Gibson copy. There are certainly some models which get too cartoony for me (for lack of a better word). For instance though I do quite like the look of the Schecter take on the shape, Ibanez destroyers I can't quite make my mind up, I like to keep an open mind though!


Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

Myself, tho I like the Destroyers and the Schecter, I prefer the pointy headstock of the original. Also, if you want an excellent made guitar that has orig shape, you could also look at edwards. They are a subsidiary of ESP guitars, so they are very well made and most come with Duncan pups.. Here is one I have considered getting for years:

http://espguitars.co.jp/edwards/ex/E-EX-120D.html

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Myself, tho I like the Destroyers and the Schecter, I prefer the pointy headstock of the original. Also, if you want an excellent made guitar that has orig shape, you could also look at edwards. They are a subsidiary of ESP guitars, so they are very well made and most come with Duncan pups.. Here is one I have considered getting for years:

http://espguitars.co.jp/edwards/ex/E-EX-120D.html

Actually I see the original Explorer headstock as kind of a debit. Visually it's about five kinds of badass, but I can't imagine any force on earth preventing string binding as sharply as they sheer from that nut. Leo fender had it right: straight through the nut is absolutely the only thing that makes any sense from a functional standpoint.

 

[kherman]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Actually I see the original Explorer headstock as kind of a debit. Visually it's about five kinds of badass, but I can't imagine any force on earth preventing string binding as sharply as they sheer from that nut. Leo fender had it right: straight through the nut is absolutely the only thing that makes any sense from a functional standpoint.

Yes, it's F'd up looking. But, this is what I do to get a little better straight string pull. Especially, on the D and G strings.

 

[Jackson Distortion]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

If you do buy an ESP EX model - keep in mind the neck (thin "U" shape) feels small. Fast with great access but, feels smallish. It's nut width of 42 mm possibly adds to it feeling this way.

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

I'm sorry, but your statement is illogical. In my experience, there is no such thing as a perfect guitar...at ANY price. To expect a man-made item from organic material to be perfect is incredibly illogical. It just can't be. Beware, these lofty expections have a way of making one a very unhappy and perennially unsatisfied person. We all want them to be perfect. Some expect perfection at $500, some at $799, some like you at $1000, some at $2000, etc. But understand this...they are NEVER perfect. NEVER. I'm not trying to be mean, but this is the real world.

I interpret his statement as 'for a lot less money you can buy other guitars the quality of which a thousand times better than that of Gibson and Fender that cost 1000+ bucks'.

You have to admit he's speaking from experience.

You see, I hate Squier and LTD yet I never touch the thing and have no idea if they are crap or good. I just hate them cause they are second brand. Now that's illogical.

 

[BTMN]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

To know what to suggest requires knowing what is there for you to try. What brands have you seen in London? I hated Dean headstiocks from first seeing them in 1978 until I bought my first in 2003. The Korean made Dean Zs are really sweet for the money and I know there are a few UK dealers around. Good used '79 Series Z would be ideal I bet to start. As mentioned before the Korean made Hamers are really nice too. Avoid the bolt on Slammer by Hamer stuff they are beginner guitars at best and finger shredding out of tune at worst. If money no object a USA Hamer Standard would be bad ass! and all you would ever need in an Explorer shaped guitar.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

To know what to suggest requires knowing what is there for you to try. What brands have you seen in London? I hated Dean headstiocks from first seeing them in 1978 until I bought my first in 2003. The Korean made Dean Zs are really sweet for the money and I know there are a few UK dealers around. Good used '79 Series Z would be ideal I bet to start. As mentioned before the Korean made Hamers are really nice too. Avoid the bolt on Slammer by Hamer stuff they are beginner guitars at best and finger shredding out of tune at worst. If money no object a USA Hamer Standard would be bad ass! and all you would ever need in an Explorer shaped guitar.

Thanks. I am mindful of Deans. I have had a Korean Dean hardtail for 12 years. As well as sounding gorgeous (with aid of a screaming demon bridge / alnico 2 pro neck combo), it has one of the best neck shapes I have ever known. Deans are very much on my list as a result.

Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk

 

[Mr Wolf]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

If you do buy an ESP EX model - keep in mind the neck (thin "U" shape) feels small. Fast with great access but, feels smallish. It's nut width of 42 mm possibly adds to it feeling this way.

That's a shame. I like big necks and I cannot lie.

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[BloodRose]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

Yes, it's F'd up looking. But, this is what I do to get a little better straight string pull. Especially, on the D and G strings.

I do the same on mine.. It works better, but I always goof myself up when tuning at first

 

[BTMN]

Re: Shopping: Explorers and Explorer-type guitars

If you are on the FB; https://www.facebook.com/groups/116705331814530/

Also I have a very nice Dean Z, Czech made in about 1998 Korina with Ebony fretboard, F/S too. PM if interested.