Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

[barbarianbrute]

what do you do when you love your tone but everyone else doesn't like it? as much as i love the jvm, i don't get a lot of great responses from it unless i'm using the plexi channel. the gain channels pretty much suck according to the feedback i've received. some people say it's "fizzy" or "thin" or even "nasal." even with the plexi channel the responses aren't "great tone" or anything. it's typically "pretty good" or "nice."

i know there's going to be someone out there who says "who cares as long as you like it," but i don't think that cuts it when you plan to play gigs. one thing i've noticed about live bands that i really like are that they all have great tone.

maybe i'm not using amp right or dialing it in correctly. i've been told that i use too much distortion but i really max out only around 12 o'clock even with pedals. i don't like to scoop the mids, so i don't think my eq is faulty. i usually keep my eq at 10 o'clock treble and 1 o'clock for mids and bass.

so with moderate distortion and a rather conservative eq, where the heck am i going wrong? i've been through a ton of amps and i can't seem to get excellent feedback on my tone except for maybe my mesa express. now i'm thinking i need to go back to it. then again i have ot max the gain on that one so it seems like a contradiction to what i've heard about my other amps.

maybe i need an amp 101 lesson, so i'll put myself out there for it. let me say that i love to play instrumental guitar stuff and metal music. mostly in the line of iron maiden, motorhead, or lamb of god kind of stuff. instrumental stuff i like to go between satriani, malmsteen and eric johnson (only his overdriven stuff, not too into his clean playing).

what the heck do i need to do to start getting some compliments on my tone? i got the playing ability. i got the good equipment (usa strats, dimarzio or duncans, and friggin marshall), so where the hell am i going wrong? i'm frustrated and confused.

i'd like to hear from guys who play lots of metal and also those who play blues and rock to get a broader understanding. i must be a friggin amp dummy and i'm getting frustrated as hell, so please help!!! :crazy:

 

[AmirH]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

I remember you saying you use distortion pedals... you could probably start by not doing that. The metalzone in particular is especially fizzy and nasal. Jvm is a great sounding amp- the only thing I ever run in front of hi gain amps are a overdrive pedal here and there to tighten things up- but I leave the gain all the way off. Also, eq can differ so drastically amp to amp- are you adjusting with your eyes or your ears?

edit: 12 o'clock on the gain can be high depending on the amp. Haven't played the jvm in quite a while but I seem to remember it having lots of gain on tap. With my mesa gain is usually no higher than 10 o'clock, lower if I'm hitting the front end hard and want more definition. And I play extreme metal so it's entirely possible that you are overgaining. But again, been a whlie since I played a jvm.

 

[barbarianbrute]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

i really don't use pedals unless i have to. for hte most part, i prefer amp tone. what you heard of mine is probably just because i wanted some feedback, but i generally use the amp. that's why i bought that darned jvm because i wanted that serious marshall amp tone. using pedals or not, i can't seem to escape criticism of my tone.

and the whole "harsh" and "fizzy" thing i really don't hear. maybe because it's my taste in the heavier type music or something, i don't know. i love metal and i think lamb of god, iron maiden, and obituary have great tone. then again, i think eric johnson has probably my favorite overdriven tone. to me, the metal zone sounds great, but i just can't get it to sound great like the guys i know do.

i'm thinking it's because i don't really know how to achieve good tone. i've spent all my time learning to play well and never about tone or recording and such.

 

[AmirH]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

which obituary albums you referring to? Cuz I just popped in slowly we rot and my god is it fizzy. I always associated lamb of god with a pretty honky nasal tone too- definitely not the best mark iv tone I've heard. Where do you have your presence set? That could easily acount for complaints of nasal fizziness.

 

[jimijames]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

I'm a firm believer that tone comes from your hands first and foremost - Try making each note as 'solid' as possible, and a tip from eric johnson is to depress the string from the top more than from the side, etc. Play all the metal stuff clean and get it really precise, then add the gain. As far as blues and rock, i'm of the opinion that you can do anything with a marshall. Put a strat through it, and it's bright and raw, a sound that I love, put a les paul through it, and you have the formula for sucessful rock bands since led zeppelin. I don't know what to do for metal, but I imagine touch is just as important. Also, big strings help out, and my advice is to go higher than you're comfortable with to practice with, and then, when you can play well with the beastly strings, then go with what you're comfortable with. Everybody that I think of when I think of good tone - Duane Allman, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix, Billy Gibbons, John Frusciante, Eric Clapton - (with the exception of Stevie Ray) uses fairly standard strings (between .009's and .011's) But that's coming from a blues/rock whore, just my 2 cents.

 

[BlueSky]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Maybe look into a used higher end head. But in the end go with what you think sounds best.

 

[AmirH]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

I'm a firm believer that tone comes from your hands first and foremost - Try making each note as 'solid' as possible, and a tip from eric johnson is to depress the string from the top more than from the side, etc. Play all the metal stuff clean and get it really precise, then add the gain. As far as blues and rock, i'm of the opinion that you can do anything with a marshall. Put a strat through it, and it's bright and raw, a sound that I love, put a les paul through it, and you have the formula for sucessful rock bands since led zeppelin. I don't know what to do for metal, but I imagine touch is just as important. Also, big strings help out, and my advice is to go higher than you're comfortable with to practice with, and then, when you can play well with the beastly strings, then go with what you're comfortable with. Everybody that I think of when I think of good tone - Duane Allman, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimi Hendrix, Billy Gibbons, John Frusciante, Eric Clapton - (with the exception of Stevie Ray) uses fairly standard strings (between .009's and .011's) But that's coming from a blues/rock whore, just my 2 cents.

This is true- I actually use different picks while tracking rhythm so I can get extra attack. Hitting the strings cleanly and hard has a huge impact. Also I don't even try to play anything with gain unless I can play it on a clean channel or unplugged first (clean channel is more revealing). If you can play it on the clean channel you tend to need less gain to play it dirty.

 

[millsart]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Seriously just stick to whatever YOU think sounds good. If your not feeling it, your not going to play your best. I wouldn't want anyone to come dial in my gear anymore than I would want to go do that for anyone else. Sounds cliche but you've got to please yourself before you can please anyone else.

Of the bands you say you like, do you feel those are bands who are buying gear to get a tone that pleases the crowd ? Or are they bands that play what they think sounds good and it just so happens you like it as well ?

I remember when Pantera first hit the scene with CFH and everyone was bashing Dime's SS Randall razor tones as sounding like crap. Everyone was still all about cranked Marshalls and Mesa's. After seeing a show though and seeing what he could do, no one was complaining afterwards. His tone went on to become one of the most coped metal tones of the 90s.

Also you mention feeling you need good tone because you want to start playing gigs. Well aside from a handful of other guitarist in the crowd, no one else is really going to care or give a second thought to your tone, nor are they really going to be able to hear it in the horrible acoustics of a typical bar/club.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

and the whole "harsh" and "fizzy" thing i really don't hear. maybe because it's my taste in the heavier type music or something, i don't know. i love metal and i think lamb of god, iron maiden, and obituary have great tone. then again, i think eric johnson has probably my favorite overdriven tone. to me, the metal zone sounds great, but i just can't get it to sound great like the guys i know do.

i'm thinking it's because i don't really know how to achieve good tone. i've spent all my time learning to play well and never about tone or recording and such.

That's what the issue is. Opinions are like A holes....everyone has one and they all stink. Getting guitarists to agree on a great tone can be silly. Like you said, there's different tones for different styles. You spend more time thinking about playing, which is a good thing. The fact is....almost all gear produces good tone. It just depends on people's taste.

I like ALL guitar tones, which can be confusing to those who pigeon hole themselves into ONE tone they adore. From the most beautiful cleans to the most ugly flatulent fuzzy fart tone....learn to love it all and you'll have more fun being an electric guitarist. Who cares what others think. I've heard some downright ugly tones on records by people I love, and I know it's because they WANTED that tone right where it was.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

This is gonna sound crazy but try different picks you would be really suprised. Also remember some the greatest Marshall tones were done with presence at 0 - Richie Blackmore, Deep Purple Live in Japan. Try turning down the pre-amp gain turning up the MV, too loud for numb nuts genious at the board at a club? Use attenuator, ask Kevlar3000 he loves 100 watters opened up, so he uses from what I understand MassLite live. Speakers? may be what ever you have is just to bright for you touch?
And research the tones you really like, sometimes its just easier to build on the stuff that you already like in the hands of your incluences. I just had no choice but to start asking about TS9 here and Laneys due to budget issues but then I found out that Lynch used TS808 most of his career and AORs were used by Criss Oliva - guys to whom I spent 100s of hours listening to ......

On the other hand .... "Listen to your ears, if its sounds good - ITS GOOD!" - YJM.

 

[BlueSky]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

I played all the amps I could get my hands including all the high end models, and came to the conclusion that soldano sounds the best to my ears. I play the jvm and it's a killer amp, much better than most could ever hope for. It's such a versatile amp that right there is worth the price alone. Again if you like it then who cares what others think? It's like the Buddhist way of thought everything starts inward, and moves its way outward. You make music for yourself, and people either get it or they don't.

 

[Hot _Grits]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Do you have friends that get good sounds?

-if so, invite them to play your rig at gig volumes (you are getting the thing loud enough, right?) with your guitars and see how they sound. Watch how they set up the amp, and pay close attention to their technique. You may learn a lot. If you're not gigging, allow them to play out with your amp, and see how it sits in a mix. Then you'll get a decent idea of whether it's you or the amp.

 

[wahwah]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

I can only agree with the "use whatever tone you like" mentality up to the point where you start working with other musicians regularly or you wish to start recording. If you're just playing for your own enjoyment at home, then it really doesn't matter what kind of sound you are getting, because nobody else is gonna hear it and it doesn't have to balance with anything. But if you are going to start working in a live band situation, or trying to record guitars to be placed into a mix, then having a tone that works with the other components is essential, if you want to do it well. One of the best ways to know if the tones you are getting will work is under "battle conditions," either at a live gig, or if that's not possible, in a rehearsal situation with acoustic drums and a bass player. You will know fairly quickly if the tones that appeal to you at that point are standing on their own or getting swallowed whole by the other instruments. If the former is the case, then the tonal details of your sound become a matter of taste. However, if you're getting lost in the mix, then you know you have some homework to do on pulling a sound.

Remember, there are tens of thousands of guitarists who can play really well. I have learned that talent is not that rare a thing. However, the numbers get weeded out when it comes to guys who have the playing ability, but also know how to run their equipment in an effective way, and can readily pull great tones that work in a band environment. The notion that an audience is not moved by great tone is a fallacy. They may not be able to explain or describe it in detail, but they will be moved by a band with a great sound and great balance, without ever having to know why. The work we do on the sounds that we are producing is equally as important as the time we spend on our playing ability. Those who disagree are probably not under any pressure to produce a finished result, which is a combination of what we play and how it sounds when we play it. Again, if it's just for the bedroom, it can sound like a can of bees for all intents and purposes, because it is of no consequence. But if it is going to be mic'd up and sent through a PA system to be balanced into a mix, or sent to a recording system to be balanced into a mix, then it really matters. A great guitar player with a crap sound is really just a crap sound being sent into the ether. A good guitar player with a great sound will generally get the gig ahead of the first guy.

The first premise which needs to be let go of is that we already know, because we have convinced ourselves. We don't know until we have heard and felt the results of our tone search as they interact favorably with other instruments. Only then can we assess if we are on the right path. From there, improvement is about being open to new ideas, suggestions, equipment and approaches. It is an invaluable journey and learning experience for anyone who aspires to be a musician.



Cheers..........................wahwah

 

[ericmeyer4]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Send me your amp and I will try it out for you! :-D

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

A ton of good advice so far.

I believe you are using way too much amp for what you are doing....50 or 100 watt amps at home volume are pretty much useless, if you want any kind of definition to the tone.

Have you considered a much smaller tube amp or a modeller...or an attenuator.


Some of the greatest tones recorded were on cranked non-master volume amps.

 

[lex666]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Hey bro,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but when I dial in a tone on my amp, I like to test sound from different listening spots throughout the room. I've noticed that when I stand in front of my amp it may sound great, but from different listening positions, it often changes. Quite often, it is mostly mids and hi-end stuff. Most likely due to sound reflections. Maybe thats why your friends are hearing a different tone than you.

I'd suggest dialing a sound and moving throughout the room and see if your tone changes and adjust accordingly. You'd be surprised, there's a difference between what your audience hears compared to what you hear standing in front of your amp.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Hey bro,

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but when I dial in a tone on my amp, I like to test sound from different listening spots throughout the room. I've noticed that when I stand in front of my amp it may sound great, but from different listening positions, it often changes. Quite often, it is mostly mids and hi-end stuff. Most likely due to sound reflections. Maybe thats why your friends are hearing a different tone than you.

I'd suggest dialing a sound and moving throughout the room and see if your tone changes and adjust accordingly. You'd be surprised, there's a difference between what your audience hears compared to what you hear standing in front of your amp.

+1

In a big room you want to get AT LEAST 10 feet away from your amp and walk around while you're playing to hear what the crowd is going to hear. If you're recording then move yourself around the room and try to find the spots your guitar sounds the best, then put mics there . . . a few inches can make a huge difference.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

Also, when was the last time you had set up done? I think there is also intonation problems.

 

[suislidE03]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

What speakers are in your cab? Those T75s can be nasty on the treble if thats the case. Also, try getting the amp biased hotter. Other than that, you may have nasty hand syndrome. My friend has the worst case I have ever heard... each note he plays just sounds honky and fizzy. I play through his rig and sound 100x better. I cant explain how he sounds the way he does.. crazyness.

 

[millsart]

Re: Should I Get Another Amp? I'm Confused!!!

The "tone police" are a very fickle group that change taste in a heartbeat keep in mind as well. Jack White's "lo fi" garage tones everyone said sounded like crap back in the day when everyone lusted after Mesa gear and now you've got some of those same people paying huge prices for old Silvertones and similar amps.

As long as you like what your rig sounds like just keep playing. Everyone else will come around sooner or later.

Theres way to many people out there that change their whole rig like they change their underware trying to keep up with whats hot and its always a huge waste of time and money. Be the guy who creates the trend, not someone who follows one.

I've been there and done that, going from JCM800 to Dual Recto's to keep up with what was the hot tones. Then guess what, everyone stopped digging dual and triple recto's and they sounded a bit passe as well.