Andrew Lamprecht
Minion of One
Helpful hints, tricks, tips?
Or just start off slowly and practice?
Or just start off slowly and practice?
Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
- Thread starter Andrew Lamprecht
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V
Varg
Guest
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Yeah just practice. When you start learning a new song, have the lyrics in front of you so you can make it second nature to sing when playing.
Some songs I just cannot do - "Fuel" by Metallica for example. Whereas others, like "Symphony of Destruction" seem to be really easy. That coming from someone who never believed I could do both at the same time until I had to try it since we didnt have a singer.
Yeah just practice. When you start learning a new song, have the lyrics in front of you so you can make it second nature to sing when playing.
Some songs I just cannot do - "Fuel" by Metallica for example. Whereas others, like "Symphony of Destruction" seem to be really easy. That coming from someone who never believed I could do both at the same time until I had to try it since we didnt have a singer.
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Like Varg said, practice. The guitar parts have to become almost completely muscle memory so you can focus more on singing the right words and on key. That said, once it clicked for me, it clicked. There's still a few I can't do, usually when the rhythm doesn't follow the singing cadence, like that little riff (badada-da-da-da) during the Boys Are Back In Town chorus that happens under the "Boys are back in tah-ow-oo-ow-own" thing, for example. I have a hard time getting that riff to be muscle memory because it's so much fun I can't help but focus on it.
Like Varg said, practice. The guitar parts have to become almost completely muscle memory so you can focus more on singing the right words and on key. That said, once it clicked for me, it clicked. There's still a few I can't do, usually when the rhythm doesn't follow the singing cadence, like that little riff (badada-da-da-da) during the Boys Are Back In Town chorus that happens under the "Boys are back in tah-ow-oo-ow-own" thing, for example. I have a hard time getting that riff to be muscle memory because it's so much fun I can't help but focus on it.
V
Varg
Guest
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
I would not suggest watching Dave Mustaine either. I cant figure out how he manages to play some of the stuff he does while singing.
I would not suggest watching Dave Mustaine either. I cant figure out how he manages to play some of the stuff he does while singing.
9unslin9er
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
It's funny that as I opened this thread, I turned Fuel on.
A lot guitarists, myself included have trouble singing and playing at the same time because we are not bred around rhythm.
How many times do you learn a rock song and take the effort to learn the ENTIRE rhythm section? I know I usually start to learn a solo and forget there was an entire guitar section backing it up.
The secret to singing is finding when you land your vocals on strum patterns. Find a nice easy pop-punk song with basic chords and learn where to sing.
When I first started playing guitar, all I had was my roommate's acoustic guitar.
So, I found the easiest song I could (Green Day - Good Riddance) and sang/played it until my other frat brothers wanted to kill me.
Metallica and Megadeth in particular are especially good to learn from because their verses are generally driving and repeated. You get to lead with vocals and find out where to fill in with small riffs.
If you really want a challenge, listen to some Prince. He's probably one of the most rhythmic based players on the planet. If you can play and sing his songs, you can probably sing and play anything.
It's funny that as I opened this thread, I turned Fuel on.
A lot guitarists, myself included have trouble singing and playing at the same time because we are not bred around rhythm.
How many times do you learn a rock song and take the effort to learn the ENTIRE rhythm section? I know I usually start to learn a solo and forget there was an entire guitar section backing it up.
The secret to singing is finding when you land your vocals on strum patterns. Find a nice easy pop-punk song with basic chords and learn where to sing.
When I first started playing guitar, all I had was my roommate's acoustic guitar.
So, I found the easiest song I could (Green Day - Good Riddance) and sang/played it until my other frat brothers wanted to kill me.
Metallica and Megadeth in particular are especially good to learn from because their verses are generally driving and repeated. You get to lead with vocals and find out where to fill in with small riffs.
If you really want a challenge, listen to some Prince. He's probably one of the most rhythmic based players on the planet. If you can play and sing his songs, you can probably sing and play anything.
9unslin9er
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
I wouldn't suggest watching Dave Mustaine either.
I would suggest listening to Dave Ellefson and Shawn Drover instead.
I wouldn't suggest watching Dave Mustaine either.
I would suggest listening to Dave Ellefson and Shawn Drover instead.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
yep. you already know what to do mate.
Helpful hints, tricks, tips?
Or just start off slowly and practice?
yep. you already know what to do mate.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
It is hard as hell and it sucks...I mean, if you are gonna play anything other than just really straight stuff in terms of rhythm on the guitar. It's like piano or drums. Gotta be able to do two different rhythms with two different parts of your body. Gotta just practice a lot IMO.
It is hard as hell and it sucks...I mean, if you are gonna play anything other than just really straight stuff in terms of rhythm on the guitar. It's like piano or drums. Gotta be able to do two different rhythms with two different parts of your body. Gotta just practice a lot IMO.
metalmachine
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
I have been lead singer and lead guitarist for every band I have been in for the last 13 years. When it's a new song I just have to play it over and over till I can play the guitar part in like a auto pilot mode. Its kinda like drums. Instead of learning to work your arms and legs, left and right independently, you learn you work your fingers and mind independently.
I have been lead singer and lead guitarist for every band I have been in for the last 13 years. When it's a new song I just have to play it over and over till I can play the guitar part in like a auto pilot mode. Its kinda like drums. Instead of learning to work your arms and legs, left and right independently, you learn you work your fingers and mind independently.
Lazarus1140
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
This is spot on.
As you might imagine this thread topic has been up before and I commented in a previous post what I believed to be true at the time ... and it may be the complete answer to some and it is obvioulsy still part of the answer for me. I said then that you have to learn one part or the other so well that is becomes 2nd nature and you only have to think about the other part. By extension, I suppose you could rehearse until you know both parts so well that when it is time to combine them you simply perform.
What I realized a few months ago is that that is not what I do at all, and I can play riffs and lead lines while singing with relative ease. (By the way, there is no claim that I do either exceptionally well).
What I have learned is that the guitar part has a rhythm or, if it is a lead line or riff, a cadence. The vocal has a cadence as well. If you listen to both carefully you can determine how to mesh the two. Once that meshed pattern has been mentally charted it takes very little practice to master. By "meshing" I mean that you can determine which syllable is on the upbeat of three, for example, and which notes and syllables are hit together and so on ... to the point where you can lock in a certain syllable with the pic's upstroke or downstroke. It would be like charting the guitar on a musical staff (timeline) and superimposing the vocal chart on the same timeline. Once you "see" how they fit the puzzle is solved. Learning is the easy part.
To be honest, it may require the slightest shifting of one part or the other to make everything fit, but once you do it's no harder than a drummer hitting quarter notes with the bass drum and triplets on the snare. There is a spacing and feel that has to be locked in. That's all there is to it.
For me, I will slightly compromise the vocal part to make it all fit. That is, I might phrase it slightly differently from the way I would sing it if someone else was covering the guitar part.
This is probably way simpler than the songs you are trying to learn, but I am posting this as an example. Start this video at 1:16. Using the method described above I learned to sing and play the guitar part together in about 10 minutes.
This is spot on.
As you might imagine this thread topic has been up before and I commented in a previous post what I believed to be true at the time ... and it may be the complete answer to some and it is obvioulsy still part of the answer for me. I said then that you have to learn one part or the other so well that is becomes 2nd nature and you only have to think about the other part. By extension, I suppose you could rehearse until you know both parts so well that when it is time to combine them you simply perform.
What I realized a few months ago is that that is not what I do at all, and I can play riffs and lead lines while singing with relative ease. (By the way, there is no claim that I do either exceptionally well).
What I have learned is that the guitar part has a rhythm or, if it is a lead line or riff, a cadence. The vocal has a cadence as well. If you listen to both carefully you can determine how to mesh the two. Once that meshed pattern has been mentally charted it takes very little practice to master. By "meshing" I mean that you can determine which syllable is on the upbeat of three, for example, and which notes and syllables are hit together and so on ... to the point where you can lock in a certain syllable with the pic's upstroke or downstroke. It would be like charting the guitar on a musical staff (timeline) and superimposing the vocal chart on the same timeline. Once you "see" how they fit the puzzle is solved. Learning is the easy part.
To be honest, it may require the slightest shifting of one part or the other to make everything fit, but once you do it's no harder than a drummer hitting quarter notes with the bass drum and triplets on the snare. There is a spacing and feel that has to be locked in. That's all there is to it.
For me, I will slightly compromise the vocal part to make it all fit. That is, I might phrase it slightly differently from the way I would sing it if someone else was covering the guitar part.
This is probably way simpler than the songs you are trying to learn, but I am posting this as an example. Start this video at 1:16. Using the method described above I learned to sing and play the guitar part together in about 10 minutes.
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Chris of Arabia
Desert RATT
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Don't ask me, I can't even speak if I'm playing
Don't ask me, I can't even speak if I'm playing
V
Varg
Guest
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Holding a conversation is a lot harder than just singing though.
Holding a conversation is a lot harder than just singing though.
JonnyG92
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Holding a conversation requires ABSOLUTE focus for me to even last 10 seconds or so. Singing is easier when you go phrase by phrase. Look up Boyce Avenue on Youtube, a LOT of their stuff is acoustic and pretty easy to sing to. Learn the guitar part first, have the lyrics in front of you and work on the rhythm.
OR... another approach is, learn the chords to a song and play the chords with a simple rhythm and then put the vocals over it (try Jumper by Third Eye Blind. Pretty easy AND it'll be a blast at the parties
Holding a conversation requires ABSOLUTE focus for me to even last 10 seconds or so. Singing is easier when you go phrase by phrase. Look up Boyce Avenue on Youtube, a LOT of their stuff is acoustic and pretty easy to sing to. Learn the guitar part first, have the lyrics in front of you and work on the rhythm.
OR... another approach is, learn the chords to a song and play the chords with a simple rhythm and then put the vocals over it (try Jumper by Third Eye Blind. Pretty easy AND it'll be a blast at the parties
El Dunco
Sock Supplier to RHCP
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
You can be a great singer and a great guitar player but somehow become average at both of them when you combine the two. Make sure you practice both of them together a lot so you can get used to having the guitar on and finding a position where it feels right.
If you look carefully, Dave Mustaine positions himself so he can look at his frets while his mouth is still near the microphone.
You can be a great singer and a great guitar player but somehow become average at both of them when you combine the two. Make sure you practice both of them together a lot so you can get used to having the guitar on and finding a position where it feels right.
If you look carefully, Dave Mustaine positions himself so he can look at his frets while his mouth is still near the microphone.
El Dunco
Sock Supplier to RHCP
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Another good trick, after making sure you can play all the guitar parts in your sleep, whisper the vocals over the top as you play each part and you're brain will get used to where the vocal patterns fall on the rhythm off the riffs.
You may have to do it bit by bit, but as the guitar player and vocalist of my main band I was nervous about one particular song in which we are to play live because the riffs and vocal pattern are quite different and I simply did the above and within a couple of days I could do it as well as any of the other songs. Our bass player remarked on how tight I was in my dual performance.
Now that the bass player has to leave and our guitar player is switching to bass, we will be a three piece meaning the sole guitar and vocals fall on me. I wouldn't have agreed to this if I wasn't confident I could do both.
Another good trick, after making sure you can play all the guitar parts in your sleep, whisper the vocals over the top as you play each part and you're brain will get used to where the vocal patterns fall on the rhythm off the riffs.
You may have to do it bit by bit, but as the guitar player and vocalist of my main band I was nervous about one particular song in which we are to play live because the riffs and vocal pattern are quite different and I simply did the above and within a couple of days I could do it as well as any of the other songs. Our bass player remarked on how tight I was in my dual performance.
Now that the bass player has to leave and our guitar player is switching to bass, we will be a three piece meaning the sole guitar and vocals fall on me. I wouldn't have agreed to this if I wasn't confident I could do both.
gilaltom3
New member
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
That's how I was a few years ago. We got rid of our other guitarist and it was all up to me. I started singing and playing at the same time so it wasn't that difficult, but I still do the whole "practice the riff while whispering the vocals thing" that's the best way to learn it. Not to hijack the thread, but the three piece guitarist is a completely different animal. Lemme know if you need any pointers (not that I'm any better than you at guitar because I know I'm not, I've just been doing the three piece thing for a few years now).
That's how I was a few years ago. We got rid of our other guitarist and it was all up to me. I started singing and playing at the same time so it wasn't that difficult, but I still do the whole "practice the riff while whispering the vocals thing" that's the best way to learn it. Not to hijack the thread, but the three piece guitarist is a completely different animal. Lemme know if you need any pointers (not that I'm any better than you at guitar because I know I'm not, I've just been doing the three piece thing for a few years now).
V
Varg
Guest
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Yeah that's exactly how I do it too (although I only do backing vocals, my band is splitting and we'll end up without a singer again so I'll share lead vocals for a while until we find a singer).
Yeah that's exactly how I do it too (although I only do backing vocals, my band is splitting and we'll end up without a singer again so I'll share lead vocals for a while until we find a singer).
aleclee
Major General GAS
Re: Singing, playing guitar at the same time?
Singing while playing is a lot easier if you can do so without needing to watch the fretboard. The use of the term "muscle memory" above is spot on. IMO, it's important that the playing be automatic, and ingrained to the point where you don't have to look at the fretboard.
Not only does it make it easier for you to sing, a guitarist who can play most of his parts without having to look at the fretboard can make eye contact with the audience and engage them better. It also makes it easier to make "guitar face" if you don't have to look at the fretboard.
This brings up something I've been working on lately: playing by feel without looking at the fretboard.
Singing while playing is a lot easier if you can do so without needing to watch the fretboard. The use of the term "muscle memory" above is spot on. IMO, it's important that the playing be automatic, and ingrained to the point where you don't have to look at the fretboard.
Not only does it make it easier for you to sing, a guitarist who can play most of his parts without having to look at the fretboard can make eye contact with the audience and engage them better. It also makes it easier to make "guitar face" if you don't have to look at the fretboard.
