Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

[jmcorey]

I want to discuss my new Peavey Classic 20 tube amp I got from an ebay auction. It is my first tube amp. I have a bad back and cannot pick up the heavy one's. I heard an album recorded with this and decided I had to have it.

I love having a tube amp, and for the most part, it sounds great. Much better than the amp emulation I've used before. I have 3 problems with it:

1) It sounds a bit too boxy. Two humbucker strat (Bill Lawrence L465's, not a muddy pup by any means). On all settings, it is very middy. That sounds great with distortion, but usually need to cut the mids as low as possible to get a good clean sound, which I like to be more HiFi - ish. This is the opposite problem of the Blues Jr - which needs the mids cranked to 10 to be normal sounding (to me) on the same guitar.

2) Also, sometimes the overdrive can sound a bit raspy. This is well controlled with tone control on the guitar.

3) The lack of clean headroom is a bit bothersome. Has tons of gain, but I wish it had more headroom.

It has what appear to be the original 12AX7's (Sino?) and replaced GrooveTube EL84's with a number 5 under the logo. Blue Marvel 10 inch speaker.

Anyone have any idea as to what I can do tube or speaker wise with this amp to help improve these problems?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

A new speaker might help with the boxy tone. As for the headroom, GT grade 5 is a pretty crunchy tube...if you like the tone of the GT's get the same model in a grade 10...these have a harder vaccume and will stay cleaner a little longer. IMO the boxy thing is part of the appeal of a small amp sometimes...it can be too boxy, and Im not sure you can get rid of all of it. as for the raspy thing...it's a mix of the guitar, the pickups, and the amp...that said you might be able to smooth at least some of it out with different pre-amp tubes...I would get a hold of a good tube rep and tell him what you have as far as tone and tubes and tell him what you want and go from there. My advise is that if you like the tone of the GT EL84's stiuck with them and just go t o a grade 10 like I mentioned...these will stay cleaner that a grade 5, as for the pre amp tibes try something with a smoother treble the 12XA7 M is getting RAVE reviews...I have yet to try them yet, but people seem to like them. You could also try maybe a 12AT7 in a few places to smooth things out a bit ( this will also help keep he clean tones cleaner).

good luck

 

[InstituteOfNoise]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

For EL-84's JJ tubes are the best! Call Bob at www.eurotubes.com

I'd recommend grade 35. That's middle of the road. Bob may be able to direct you even better though.

I use JJ EL-84's in my Atomic amps and I just ordered a set of JJ EL-84's grade 37 for a modded out Carvin Vintage 33, along with 4 JJ ECC83S preamp tubes (12AX7 replacements). Swapped out the crappy Carvin speaker for a 30 year old G12M-70 all worn in nicely.

Not sure about the speaker... depends on what your after. Maybe check out the WeberVST Blue or Silver bell for a more vintage tone. Jensens or the new Eminence line sounds great... love the Guvenor sound. Celestion is coming out with a reissue 20 and 30w speaker that looks very very promising.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

What size speaker? If it's a 12" I'd recommend the Celestion Vintage 30. That's a very efficient speaker and it'll make the amp alot louder and clearer. The G12H30 would be excellant too, but I think the V30 is even louder and clearer. Those are the two speakers I use in my Deluxe Reverbs. Made a HUGE improvement in those DR's. Lew

 

[brisk]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

I suggest Celestion G12 Vintage Neodymium ($99 from Avatar speaker). BTW, it weights only 3.5 lb.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

The speaker is 10 inches.

 

[vegetablejoe]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Hi jmcorey,

I have the same tube amp and have the same problems... I love the gain but miss the clean headroom. I love using my my strat but don't get much chime out of it when plugged into the Classic 20; the strat and tele sound so much better on my hybrid Fender Champ 25SE.

I too am interested to know what 10" speaker replacements would open up the sound of the Classic 20 and at least make it sound less boxy. The 16 ohm speaker requirement limits options quite a bit, and so perhaps we would need to compromise and settle on a a 2x10 extension cab with two 8 ohm speakers. I don't relish the bigger size and footprint of an ext cab, but neither do I want to sell the amp.


Jaime G.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

The speaker is 10 inches.

OK then....how about the Weber C10Q? That's a killer speaker and less like a Jensen C10Q and actually much more like the best ceramic 10" speaker Jensen ever made: the '66 C10N.

 

[InstituteOfNoise]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Lew is that the serial no for one of the Silver Bell's? I was thinking the SilverBell Ceramic might be a good choice for it. The Vintage 30 style might still be to mid rangy if it's already boxy sounding.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Lew is that the serial no for one of the Silver Bell's? I was thinking the SilverBell Ceramic might be a good choice for it. The Vintage 30 style might still be to mid rangy if it's already boxy sounding.

I don't know Ted's new numbering system. Fortunately he has a cross reference thingie on his site that gives you his old number and new number for the same speaker. The one I'm talking about isn't the silver bell though.

It's old number was the Weber C10Q...only it's more like an old Jensen C10N. Big magnet!

Lew

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Thanks for the input guys. The Blue Marvel speaker has an impedance of 16 ohms, though, so I guess whatever model would have to come in that.... I think I will try a tube swap with JJ's. Been in email contact with Bob from Eurotubes ad gotten recommendations from him. One thing I was NOT aware of before this thread is that power tubes can affect the tone or distortion, and that their rating can affect how clean the sound is. Is this true at lower volumes?

Joe

 

[InstituteOfNoise]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

I think Bob could give you teh better answer on the distortion on low volume, but I would think it wouldn't be that affected unless you were runnign an attenuator of sorts.

 

[PUCKBOY99]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

I'm not familiar with this amp so I did a search & found the same question on the Weber board...did you post it???

http://www.webervst.com/cgi-bin/tal...http://www.webervst.com/speakers&msg_num=1239

Also looked at the Peavey site to see if they had a schematic & if you don't have a manual, you can download it from here:

http://www.peavey.com/support/searchmanuals/results.cfm?searchstring=classic 20


I would do this:

1) GET IT OFF THE FLOOR!!! You'll be amazed at how much better it'll sound.

2) Dial in the cleanest sound possible per the manuals recommendations & then tweak it a bit to see if that helps any.

3) Get new tubes....much cheaper than swapping speakers. I like the JJ EL84s & also the Ei EL84s. I see in the manual that the amp takes 2 12AX7s....maybe 2 JJ 12AX7s & get a 12AU7 & 12AT7. Try the 2 12AX7s...if it doesn't work, swap one for the AU7...doesn't work? Switch their positions....doesn't work? Try the same w/the AT7...

4) The guys at Weber are pretty quick about answerring e-mails. Tell him what you have, what you're looking for & he'll recommend a replacement speaker.

5) Still not right???? Have it looked over by a good tech. How old an amp is it? It might need a good cleaning & maybe a cap job.


Good luck Brother & welcome to the complicated yet fulfilling world of tube amp "Tonedom"!!!!

 

[Ken]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

What JMC isn't telling you is that I got his Tech21 TriAC!!!

BWAHAHAHA!!!

Thanks again bro, I'm loving this unit and haven't even begun to explore it yet.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

All the advise is pretty much the truth, but also consider that maybe it's not the amp for you. If you don't feel like pouring $150 into it, just consider swapping it for something you DO like.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Thanks for the advice guys.....

 

[Wattage]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

I know the JJ's have a good rep but I found their EL84's very dark and boxy sounding in the Orange I had, didn't like them at all and their 12AX7's are as overrated a tube as I have used.

If youhaven't had the tubes done yet find a real good local tech and bring it too him. Tell him what you are looking for and let him work with you. Any tech these days should have plenty of experience with the Classic line. Also spend some time on the Peavey Forum. A little tricky to follow but you'll find some guys there that can help you get that thing dialed in just right for you.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Well, didn't get Wattage's report. The JJ's are ordered. It's kind of like ordering a pickup. My curiosity has the best of me.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Small amp sounding too boxy...HELP

Will post reports, of course.