So are ceramic magnet pickups more or less compressed than Alnico?

[uOpt]

Myself, I always thought of ceramic is more compressed.

But I see an increasing number of users saying that ceramic is less compressed and more raw. Mainly on gearpage.

What say you?

 

[Mincer]

To me, that compressed feeling comes with power, no matter the magnet. Ceramic is certainly harsher to me.

 

[Binnerscot]

I'm no expert, but I've dealt with very compressed A5 and very dynamic ceramic, especially in those lower to mid output pickups. Higher output will generally always be more compressed, regardless of magnet. I think ceramics are used more often in high output so the myth is perpetuated.

 

[Sam SG]

I dunno but Ive allways kinda found ceramic more aggressive and bitey. I dont nessacerily hate it.

 

[ehdwuld]

I have one guitar with alnico pole peices
And one with the ceramic bar mags

When playing clean

I cannot detect any notable difference

But I am old

Under gain it may be different

But who plays single coils with gain?

 

[weepingminotaur]

Yeah, compression comes with output, not the magnet material.

I love ceramic pickups for metal applications, but they obviously need to be aftermarket quality. Stock low-grade ceramics aren't great. A ceramic like the Black Winter is a completely different story.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Yeah, compression comes with output, not the magnet material.

I don't agree.

Amps compress more with pickups with more output more often than not, but those are amps, not pickups or magnets.

Hard to separate both, but in an ideal world, if an amp has enough headroom to handle anything clean, louder does not necessarily have to mean more compressed. Sometimes there's actually more range towards the higher amplitudes while keeping the ability to be quiet.

Now, this is me assuming, but I do feel like comrpession comes more often than not with overwinding a pickup. But if you took, say, a Pearly Gates and swapped the magnet from A2 to ceramic, I wouldn't be surprised if ceramic actually has more dynamic range because of the decreased inductance. Ceramic does feel, after all, like it has more attack and harsher transients, no?

 

[freefrog]

I've voted for "it is more complicated".

When it comes to coils, increased resistance / inductance or parasitic capacitance squash the transients and/or slower the attack just like a compressor would do (it can be seen in impulse response measurements, for the record).

So do Foucault currents : whether they come from covers / baseplates or core materials, they are a major cause of inherent "compression".

Ceramic bars don't cause eddy currents by themselves so, considered alone, they should generate less "compression". But eddy currents due to other parts can largely alter the transients of a ceramic loaded humbucker. IME, a cherry picked "bad" cover causing high Foucault currents can even blurry the line between magnet alloys, for instance.

Conversely, a pickup designed to avoid eddy currents won't compress much more IME with AlNi(Co) than with ferrite. To me, that's why Bill Lawrence did say that "magnetism is magnetism": his humbuckers were designed for the least possible Foucault currents so perceived compression doesn't really change with an A5 loaded Bill & Becky L500 vs a ceramic loaded Bill Lawrence USA L500...

Now, I understand the idea that ceramic = compression for reasons expressed above in various ways: most ceramic bars are more gaussed than other magnets, and they are often associated to high inductance coils. So they go with powerful transients leading gain stages to compress because overloaded.

FWIW.

 

[donaldr]

I don't think a magnet is doing any compression. Maybe the rest of the chain is compressing because it's reacting to the dynamic range.

 

[weepingminotaur]

louder does not necessarily have to mean more compressed. Sometimes there's actually more range towards the higher amplitudes while keeping the ability to be quiet.

Sure, but we're talking general rules here. For every edge case of a high-output pickup retaining range, there are more examples of the opposite.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Sure, but we're talking general rules here. For every edge case of a high-output pickup retaining range, there are more examples of the opposite.

Depends on what you mean by "output". In the case of a Duncan Distortion vs. a, say, '59, then yeah, the DD is probably more compressed.

But my point was more along the lines of a '59 with a ceramic vs. a '59 with A2. If I had to take a guess, I'd probably say the higher output ceramic '59 would have more dynamic range.

 

[weepingminotaur]

Depends on what you mean by "output". In the case of a Duncan Distortion vs. a, say, '59, then yeah, the DD is probably more compressed.

But my point was more along the lines of a '59 with a ceramic vs. a '59 with A2. If I had to take a guess, I'd probably say the higher output ceramic '59 would have more dynamic range.

I will admit that this comparison passes beyond my ability to assess, but it's an interesting one to make!

 

[freefrog]

But my point was more along the lines of a '59 with a ceramic vs. a '59 with A2. If I had to take a guess, I'd probably say the higher output ceramic '59 would have more dynamic range.

My LP number one hosts P.A.F. clones including NOS short A2 magnets. Nothing special when it comes to LRC specs, resonant peaks + Q factors or measured flux strenght.

But when I play these puppies, it's as if a compressor was always on. I can dig the strings and obtain more or less grit by doing this but the output level somehow limits itself. No spiky transients. Just an even response (without the usual perceived flaws of LP's: no muddy or boomy neck position, no ice pick from the bridge PU. It's always as if the tone was premastered).

It amazes and delights me for 20 years now. To illustrate what I mean, I could play here "I Thank You", first tune of the Deguëllo album from ZZtop since it's exactly the tone that I get, whatever are the pedals, amp and cab used.

I've not tried ceramic/ferrite bars in this set. I certainly don't want to ruin it since it's my favourite pair of passive PU's, beside a handful of real vintage ones (including my early 59's as Duncan reissued 'em in limited edition recently).

But I wouldn't be surprised to notice a wider dynamic range (spikier transients) with ceramic, due to higher Gauss levels and less Foucault currents. It wouldn't cancel the possibility to obtain a compressed tone, but this compression would come from some gain stage defeated by the transients and no more from the pickups themselves... A (ceramic loaded) Jackson BC50 in my old Charvel does exactly that. Also delightfully compressed to me for more than 40 years but for way different reasons. ;-)