So how about this neat little circuit?

[cream123]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Thanks for your help BTW. Also for each gain stage would I need to have two resistors like the original booster stage or what?
and also how is the resistance of a pot measured? All the way down? How would you calculate the value of resistors needed?

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Quote ArtieToo [/B]"This isn't the type of circuit that you really want to analyze in terms of series or parallel. You just need to understand the functional blocks."

Thanks for explaining the circuit in this way. it certainly helped me to learn more. I originally made the series/parallel circuit "breakdown" suggestion to try and get Cream123 started with something. I didn't know how else to explain it, but I was sure that there was a better way. Are these "functional blocks" sometimes called "nodes", or am I confusing this term?

Cream123: Sorry if I added to your confusion in the early parts of this thread. I'm a beginner also. I shouldn't have jumped in so quickly to try and help you.

Thanks for explaining the circuits so thoroughly. It is hard for me to understand how the electronics engineers/designers can design these circuits and arrive at the component values, placement, etc. Do they begin by thinking in known/well stablished "functional blocks" and then piecing them together to create the desired outcome of the circuit?

Thanks again.

Dave

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Walters . . . is that you?

Seriously though, you're starting to get beyond what can be answered here. What specific values you use depend on what exactly you're building. Is this the front-end for an active guitar pickup, an intermediate stage of a booster, or the final stage of a low-watt amp? (Thats a rhetorical question.)

Also, I'm not an engineer. I'm a tech. If I was going to do this myself, I'd search for proven building blocks, and use what sections I needed. I doubt that I'd design my own pickup booster without consulting someone else's plans.

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Thanks for explaining the circuit in this way. it certainly helped me to learn more. I originally made the series/parallel circuit "breakdown" suggestion to try and get Cream123 started with something. I didn't know how else to explain it, but I was sure that there was a better way. Are these "functional blocks" sometimes called "nodes", or am I confusing this term?

Thanks Dave. When I think of a "node", I think of a junction. It could be as simple as the connection of two pickup hot wires to a switch. Generally, you'ld use a node to analyze current flow. If I have two light bulbs connected to one switch, I have x-amount of current flowing into the node, and x/2 flowing out. That type of thing.

By "functional blocks" I just mean that you break any circuit down into smaller sections. The transistor, by itself, is just a "part". Add in the emitter and collector resistors, and I have a DC amp. Add a couple more resistors and a couple of caps and I have an AC amp.

The tone control on a guitar is a "block", consisting of a variable resistor and a cap. One side connected to ground and one side connected to whatever point where I want to suppress high-frequencies. Could be before the selector switch, could be after. By looking at it as a "block", I can visually move it around anywhere I want.

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

The whole concept of designing circuits just amazes me. I'm not looking to go any further, just expressing admiration.

Not wishing to compete with Walters insatiable desire for the abstract and pseudoscientific (in any way) but what is the short definition of a "node" in electronics? ...last question....I promise. And I will respect, remember and cherish your answer.

Dave

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

You just posted #24 seconds before me.

I'm reading your respone now.

Thanks

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Cool. And keep in mind, a node can be inside a part. A diode is two nodes. (di-ode) A transistor is three. So you would analyze the current flow into the emitter and out of the base and collector for example.

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Thanks for everything ArtieToo

I will now feel proud if anyone ever calls me a "blockhead"

 

[cream123]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

For additional gain stages would you need to 2 resistors hooked up to each transistor? Also how are pot resistandces measured? This last question pertains to gain controls. In other words I'm wondering a deeper explanation on the gain knob.

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

It depends on how you design it. You could either, duplicate that entire circuit, or replace the whole thing with a single op-amp and a resistor. Then comes the question of when is your gain too much. Lets say you choose values in that circuit for a gain of 100. You put in a 100mv signal and you get 10 volts out. But if you're using a 9-volt battery, you only have a voltage swing of +/- 4.5 volts. You'll have already clipped the signal with your first stage. Additional stages of gain won't yield any more increase in voltage. You'll just get more clipping . . . in other words, you now have a distortion circuit.

 

[cream123]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

It depends on how you design it. You could either, duplicate that entire circuit, or replace the whole thing with a single op-amp and a resistor. Then comes the question of when is your gain too much. Lets say you choose values in that circuit for a gain of 100. You put in a 100mv signal and you get 10 volts out. But if you're using a 9-volt battery, you only have a voltage swing of +/- 4.5 volts. You'll have already clipped the signal with your first stage. Additional stages of gain won't yield any more increase in voltage. You'll just get more clipping . . . in other words, you now have a distortion circuit.

I got ya. Let's say I have 2 transistors with resistors attached to each one to make an "amp-like" circuit. Then I put a volume and some resistors, to do the whole gain knob, between the two. The second transistor would feel the increase in signal (I think in volts, right?). Would this consitute a low-gain distortion circuit if I have a tone knob in there that I'm still learning how to do? What else would I need besides a polarized resistor at the beginning and at the end to make sure no signal goes back out?

Edit: so my reasoning is that the lower the power the transistor can take, the higher the gain. Am I right?

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

What else would I need besides a polarized resistor at the beginning and at the end to make sure no signal goes back out?

You need a non-polarized capacitor.

Edit: so my reasoning is that the lower the power the transistor can take, the higher the gain. Am I right?

Not necessarily. While its true that the individual transistor will have an inherent gain, the circuits gain will be determined by the components you select. Its your job as the designer to determine the amount of gain you want for your specific application.

 

[cream123]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

You need a non-polarized capacitor.

ahhh thanks for the correction.

Not necessarily. While its true that the individual transistor will have an inherent gain, the circuits gain will be determined by the components you select. Its your job as the designer to determine the amount of gain you want for your specific application.

I know this is going deep but I'm wondering how the different fators affect the gain amount. Like what would insert component here do to the sound and how the different values affect the sound. I.E. A resistor with a higher level does this to the circuit. I think a higher resitance resistor would make the circuit brighter, doesn't it? That's the way it is with guitar vol/tone knobs at least I believe.

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Hi Cream123 and ArtieToo

I'm reading all this with much interest.

I thought my "node"/block/circuit designing questions were getting off the track, until Cream123's post :

Quote: "Like what would insert component here do to the sound and how the different values affect the sound. I.E. A resistor with a higher level does this to the circuit."

This is more "Walters" than Walters is. LOL...J/K

ArtieToo: Have you ever considered writing a book specifically, and only, on guitar electronics? There seems to be a niche in the market for a thorough/good book on this topic (switches, tone caps, pots, soldering, shielding, etc....how they/it work(s), theory, choosing, etc.
Just a thought...you certainly explain things well in words.
Also, lots of diagrams around to help support the text.

Dave

 

[cream123]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

ArtieToo: Have you ever considered writing a book specifically, and only, on guitar electronics? There seems to be a niche in the market for a thorough/good book on this topic (switches, tone caps, pots, soldering, shielding, etc....how they/it work(s), theory, choosing, etc.
Just a thought...you certainly explain things well in words.
Also, lots of diagrams around to help support the text.

Dave

That's a good idea. I've yet to find one about guitar elctronics i.e. pedals and what not.

Thanks
-Marc

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

I intended that the book would stop at the output jack of the guitar.

That is plenty to cover.

I also think that it would be cool for the Seymour Duncan Co. to assist the author(s) with the preparation of the book and publishing cost, if it was too big a job for one person to consider. The SD "FAQ" section has a wealth of information that could be transcribed into a book, along with many of the most popular wiring diagrams.

Maybe books are now considered too outdated, given the amount of free information on the internet.

Cream123: You might want to post a new thread asking about books on pedal schems and construction techniques.
I thought that StewMachad one.

Dave

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Well thank you very much for the kind words guys, but I don't really think I'm the man for this job. It still amazes me, the simple little stuff I learn, about guitars, on this forum, that I should've known to begin with. The Seymour Duncan forum is the "book".

However, I still have aspirations to do a simple "guitar wiring basics" webpage. The problem is, between loving my wife, playing guitar, listening to music, drinking beer, and working on a webpage . . . guess where the latter falls?

I'll get there. Sometime soon. Maybe.

Artie

 

[greco]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

ArtieToo Quote: ....

loving my wife, playing guitar, listening to music, drinking beer

These are all critical components to sustaining life (and happiness).

Looking forward to your webpage...in....oh 2011 or so. Fair?

Dave

 

[Artie]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

Looking forward to your webpage...in....oh 2011 or so. Fair?

Dave

Way before that. Maybe 2010.

 

[cream123]

Re: So how about this neat little circuit?

The problem is I don't get anything without pictures. The book could put it into the simplest terms but if I don't have something to look at then I just wasted $20.