So I'm working on harmony...

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

That's right kids! And you too can sound like:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdzn0nCLhEA

But it doesn't matter because, "He's so cute"! ROFLMAO!

Hey, pal! maybe I like Modest Mouse. Maybe I like how they sound. Maybe I want to sound like them. Maybe you just insulted my hopes and dreams musically.


By the way you may have chosen their worst moment live.


as far as the rules art thing

I say that a lot of good things came from having and not having rules. It depends on you point of view. Art as in drawing kind of needs rules for it to be appreciated not to be beautiful and good. Art isn't just drawings and paintings . Music is art too. The beauty of art is that you can do what you want. It doesn't need to be appreciated by critics, it just needs to be loved by yourself. A lot of people like when it's appreciated by other people because then they feel they have done well by society's standards, or society's rules.

Sure rules make good artists, but by who's rules?

 

[Mephis]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Honestly, I actually liked it. Its weird and the disonance and "flubbed" chords and jerky rhythm give it charm.

Don't be so hard on yerself man. I mean its good to be self Critical, But not to the point of Hateing yourself. Just practice if ya wanna be "better", Try doin like others said an use a metronome.
Personally I see no point in learning theory or anything like that, Cause its really useless in most cases, and Does nothing but hinder the creative process (Having rules Ruins art). Just keep goin like your goin, and just work on your technique. You've got a totally unique style goin already man, and thats a VERY good thing. So Try not to lose that, Just take what you got, and Fine tune it.

I mean lessons, and learning technique, and other peoples songs is fine and all, But in alotta cases doing all those things results in one loseing they're Uniqueness (which is why we have so many "great" guitarists that all sound pretty much the same). Everything I've heard of yours is very very Unique, an alotta times people don't like to hear Unique/different. So when they hear sumthing thats very different from everything else, they automatically assume "well this is not like anything I've heard before, so it must suck". An they'll all tell you what your doing "wrong", But what do they know?

Anyone can Play a cover of Smells like teen spirit, Or Enter sandman, Or whatever. But not many people can do something Original. So just keep at what your doin, Just Fine tune it. Try adding some Lead melodys (not Solo's or anything nessicarrily, Just melody lines that hold the rhythm and keep the listeners attention), Don't worry about song structure That much (but having structure does help in keeping someones attention), and Just Keep doing what your doing. You got the talent, and ya Got the mind to write good music, Ya just need to work on your technique a little.

You'd be wise to just delete that post. The point have been covered and you said many things that would screw up MANY people if it wasn't for other people here prompty correcting you.

I mean for ****s sake man! You just said theory is worthless? Now why again are you in tips and clips? Theory is the PAINT, the guitar is the BRUSH. Understand? Hopefully you do, otherwise we'll have another kurt cobain on our hands.

Don't worry about structure? So just throw a bunch of notes in the air and pray they fall in the right places? Wow that sounds like a modern aproach to music!:laugh2:

 

[Osensei]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Hey, pal! maybe I like Modest Mouse. Maybe I like how they sound. Maybe I want to sound like them. Maybe you just insulted my hopes and dreams musically.


By the way you may have chosen their worst moment live.

I knew I would risk hitting your hot button. But it was so exquisitely bad that I couldn't resist! :laugh2:

as far as the rules art thing

I say that a lot of good things came from having and not having rules. It depends on you point of view. Art as in drawing kind of needs rules for it to be appreciated not to be beautiful and good. Art isn't just drawings and paintings . Music is art too. The beauty of art is that you can do what you want. It doesn't need to be appreciated by critics, it just needs to be loved by yourself. A lot of people like when it's appreciated by other people because then they feel they have done well by society's standards, or society's rules.

Sure rules make good artists, but by who's rules?

That's all philosophical BS! If you consider yourself a student of an art form then you need structure "in the beginning" to guide you and science to light your path. Even having no rules is a rule! :chairfall

There is always the risk that the student will mistake the method for the art. The method is not the art. The method is the tool that is used to understand the art. Therefore, the rules are there so that you can understand what you're doing, why you're doing it, why it works or why it fails to work in your own judgement and based on your own experience. The rules are not there to force you to do things a certain way! If this is what you think then you, like most in the beginning, misunderstand the role that theory plays in a modern day society.

If everyone followed the strict guidelines of music theory then everyone would sound like Bach. Because the 17th century was when the theory came about. People don't use theory in this way. They simply use it when they need it as a language to communicate or describe what they do to others. Or they use it to try to determine what possibilities are available to them. But one's own tastes and artistic freedom ultimately determines what the artist ends up doing.

So when you're composing music and for some reason you have come up with an idea that you don't like, then you can ask yourself, "What can I play that will sound better?". To answer that question you have to assemble a list of possibilities that you can try out! The knowledge of theory can lead you to some helpful hints as to what you can try next! But theory doesn't force you to choose any of those possibilities. If you don't like the possibilities then you can use theory to extrapolate further or you can abandon the theoretical approach whenever you feel like it.

Or you can do like Modest Mouse and scream into your pickup! :chairfall

 

[firebirdV]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

:chairfall :chairfall :chairfall
So every painting that doesn't look like a Piccaso is BS. We should just take a wrecking ball to the friggen Sisteen Chapel, I suppose! :chairfall :chairfall :chairfall Handel's Messiah, Beethoven's 9th Symphony and Wagner's Gotter Damerung are all ****ed up! :chairfall We should close ****ing Juliard because Low_fidelity says they're teaching BS that makes musicians retarded! :chairfall

Might I note that Neil Young (who I seem to be mentioning a lot lately) has stated that he never learned any theory and stayed away from scales and such. He is one of the best song writers in the world.

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

You have a point Osensei, it's like learning english so you can talk. :laugh2:

The point that I think Low-fi is making is that it's like 2nd hand smoke. if you hang around a smoker, no matter how cool they are, it will change you in a way you might not want to be changed.

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Out of curiosity what chords "planked"?


was it the Emaj7 and the Eaug at the same time :laugh2:. That would be my guess. I can't tell but I'm not to trained quite yet. :laugh2:

 

[Osensei]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Might I note that Neil Young (who I seem to be mentioning a lot lately) has stated that he never learned any theory and stayed away from scales and such. He is one of the best song writers in the world.

Whatever dude! He did it by ear! That's all well and good. But if a High School band instructor wanted the band to perform one of Neil Young's songs, I guess he would tell the whole damn band just to play by ear because that's what Neil Young did! :chairfall

If doing it by ear is your thing then fine! I have no problem with that! What I have a problem with is you telling me to play your **** and all you can do is hum a few bars and play air guitar! You at least need to know how to put your **** down on a fake sheet or something. That means you need to know chords at the very least!

 

[Mephis]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

You have a point Osensei, it's like learning english so you can talk. :laugh2:

The point that I think Low-fi is making is that it's like 2nd hand smoke. if you hang around a smoker, no matter how cool they are, it will change you in a way you might not want to be changed.

It won't change you.


I've never heard of anyone who just got "changed" by someone. You're in your head. You know what you are trying to sound like. Theory will allow you to express that in the most pleasing manner.

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

It won't change you.

Of course it will, if I incorporate something new into my playing style it's going to change how I play, hopefully for the better. It will do it subconsciously, meaning I won't tell. Other people will. Why would I spend hours upon hours, days upon day etc on something that wouldn't change my playing ability?

 

[firebirdV]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

If doing it by ear is your thing then fine! I have no problem with that! What I have a problem with is you telling me to play your **** and all you can do is hum a few bars and play air guitar! You at least need to know how to put your **** down on a fake sheet or something. That means you need to know chords at the very least!

I don't remember telling you any of that...

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

I don't remember telling you any of that...

That's what I thought as well :laugh2:

aparrently Neil Young has a negative connotation all of a sudden. :laugh2:

 

[danglybanger]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Of course it will, if I incorporate something new into my playing style it's going to change how I play, hopefully for the better. It will do it subconsciously, meaning I won't tell. Other people will. Why would I spend hours upon hours, days upon day etc on something that wouldn't change my playing ability?

...that was an amazing post.

Why are people so afraid of change, or influences? :laugh2:

Life's about change.

Osensei... you always seem to have good points til you take em a bit too far :laugh2:

 

[Osensei]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Of course it will, if I incorporate something new into my playing style it's going to change how I play, hopefully for the better. It will do it subconsciously, meaning I won't tell. Other people will. Why would I spend hours upon hours, days upon day etc on something that wouldn't change my playing ability?

You're reading too much into all this! Yes it will change you in that you will be aware of a scientific method by which you can make choices. Since you're so hell bent on trying to compose music before you even learn your instrument, I would think having choices would be of value to you. Hopefully, those would be better choices (in your own mind) than you would have made prior to having the knowledge. But theory doesn't guarantee that you will make better choices or even good ones. All it does is make you aware of the possibilities. The rest is up to you. That's not changing the way you sound. That's only presenting you with choices that you may have missed if you had not been educated in theory.

That's not to say that the same choices could not have been stumbled upon by accident or some other method though. Nevertheless, it's valuable to have a consistent method for yielding results.

If you know how to build chords then you're using theory! If you know how to play in the correct key then you're using theory! So what's all the damn controversy about? Nobody is telling you that you have to play a certain way! If you're so skeptical about theory then don't use chords and don't try to come up with symbols to describe them. Play everything in the wrong key because in your mind there are no keys!

So when the rest of the band wants to play one of your tunes and they ask you what they should be playing then just hum it to them! And if they ask what key its in then tell them its not important to play in the correct key because that would be too theoretical!

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

You're reading too much into all this! Yes it will change you in that you will be aware of a scientific method by which you can make choices. Since you're so hell bent on trying to compose music before you even learn your instrument, I would think having choices would be of valuable to you. Hopefully, those would be better choices (in your own mind) than you would have made prior to having the knowledge. But theory doesn't guarantee that you will make better choices or even good ones. All it does is make you aware of the possibilities. The rest is up to you. That's not changing the way you sound. That's only presenting you with choices that you may have missed if you had not been educated in theory.

That's not to say that the same choices could not have been stumbled upon by accident or some other method though. Nevertheless, it's valuable to have a consistent method for yielding results.

If you know how to build chords then you're using theory! If you know how to play in the correct key then you're using theory! So what's all the damn controversy about? Nobody is telling you that you have to play a certain way! If you're so skeptical about theory then don't use chords and don't try to come up with symbols to describe them. Play everything in the wrong key because in your mind there are no keys!

So when the rest of the band wants to play one of your tunes and they ask you what they should be playing then just hum it to them! And if they ask what key its in then tell them its not important to play in the correct key because that would be too theoretical!

I know a lot of the common chord names and I know a few keys/scales. I'm not a total theory idiot. I know that was in the key of E major. I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure it is. Again I need to know how to do harmony

 

[BigAlTheBird]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

I think Mephis is off his loving rocker.

Cream, you're a cool kid, you know that? You don't take stuff from people and I respect that.

Low Fidelity, I agree with yo, to a point. I think learning other people's music can be very beneficial, as can lessons. But nothing takes the place of making your own music, that's for sure.

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Cream, you're a cool kid, you know that? You don't take stuff from people and I respect that.

Thanks man, I rarely hear that. Especially from someone I've never met in real life. By the way, my name's Marc.

 

[Axl H]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Cream I can understand your opinion on the whole thing about not wanting to change, but I would much rather be able to do a thing, and choosing not to, than one day wanting to do a thing and be unable too.

I am gonna take a example in our forum bro Rid, as he is the only real kick ass guitarplayer I know.

He can play Funk, jazz, shred, rock lead, blues lead and alot of other stuff.

He only chooses not too, but when he really shreds, it kick ass. I can only admire that he is able to soo freely go from one style to another, and its all about practice and having fun.

Some people will tell you there are rules about guitar playing, I think EVH is a great example of a guy who said, Screw that, and just developed a style with out rules, just having fun.

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

I am gonna take a example in our forum bro Rid, as he is the only real kick ass guitarplayer I know.

He can play Funk, jazz, shred, rock lead, blues lead and alot of other stuff.

He only chooses not too, but when he really shreds, it kick ass. I can only admire that he is able to soo freely go from one style to another, and its all about practice and having fun.

By this time I've realized there's people that you just can't reach in certain things. My guess is that Rid is one of those guys. I could practice all day and all night and not touch guys like Rid. Some people are born with a gift in music. I am not one of those people. I just like to play. You have to be able to accept that you peak at a certain level no matter what. I'm not saying that my peak won't be high but I'm going to guess that I won't reach some peoples level. Music just clicks with some people, I'm not one of those people. I don't want a speech on how I shouldn't limit myself. This isn't limiting myself this is accepting a cold, hard fact of life.

Oh yeah and using famous, professional players that are considered the gods of rock as examples is not maybe not the best persuasive technique. I will never ever, reach that level. I can't even relate to it

 

[cream123]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

HAHAHAHA I posted the wrong clip :laugh2:

yeah that one sucks, I agree. The tone in this one is almost worse though.

I'm uploading the right one now I'll get it to ya guys soon

 

[Axl H]

Re: So I'm working on harmony...

Actually when we talked about learning, Rid told me he was far from a natural talent, it took him some time to really begin to play.

I live by the saying "If you work hard enough, its gonna come true". I have bad problems with my fingers, I was never naturally giften in anything involving them, I can write, just not very nice.

But somehow because I really wanted to, I can play guitar, not very good at all, but I can play with bending chords out of tune etc.

When I watch videos of Jabs, Norum, Murray, Downing, Smith, Tipton and Yngwie, I see people who really crafted their style, and my goal is to reach a similar level, the only way to do it, is practicing hard. If you dont practice hard enough, then you dont want it

But good luck mate