So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
- Thread starter Zhangliqun
- Start date
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
AdmiralB
New member
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
Headroom is a function of design, not device type. I would posit that the majority of SS guitar amps are price-point designs. Look at something SS where cost is less of an object and they'll compare positively. The first-series SS Sunn amps, for example.
Headroom is a function of design, not device type. I would posit that the majority of SS guitar amps are price-point designs. Look at something SS where cost is less of an object and they'll compare positively. The first-series SS Sunn amps, for example.
Quencho092
New member
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
I'd like to get a fender twin for example, and an 85 watt solid state amp, test both of them to make sure that they are in fact within those wattage ranges, then turn both up to their approximate headroom limit (when they start distorting), then get a wattage reading or whatever it is just to get a first hand feel of the difference in volume.
Could it also be that the distortion from a tube amp at around the top of its headroom is subtle enough that the tone could be still considered clean? Right when a SS amp starts distorting at the power stage things get nasty real quick.
I'd like to get a fender twin for example, and an 85 watt solid state amp, test both of them to make sure that they are in fact within those wattage ranges, then turn both up to their approximate headroom limit (when they start distorting), then get a wattage reading or whatever it is just to get a first hand feel of the difference in volume.
Could it also be that the distortion from a tube amp at around the top of its headroom is subtle enough that the tone could be still considered clean? Right when a SS amp starts distorting at the power stage things get nasty real quick.
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
two possibilbities. Most tube amps power is rated clean. 30w watts before clipping. Solid state stereo amps at leastare always rated at clipping or below. Where does a Plexi start clipping? 4 or 5? My old JTM45 reissue started clipping at about 4 and wouldn't get any louder after 7 or so. rectifier couldn't push any more power, so it sagged and got real nice and nasty sounding. Second, as mentioned i the article, most of those older speaker designs were EXTREMELY efficient.
two possibilbities. Most tube amps power is rated clean. 30w watts before clipping. Solid state stereo amps at leastare always rated at clipping or below. Where does a Plexi start clipping? 4 or 5? My old JTM45 reissue started clipping at about 4 and wouldn't get any louder after 7 or so. rectifier couldn't push any more power, so it sagged and got real nice and nasty sounding. Second, as mentioned i the article, most of those older speaker designs were EXTREMELY efficient.
Sludgenutz
New member
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
+1. Sunn created high quality S/S gear 30 years ago.
Great thread!
I think S/S gear gets a free-ride in the lab. There are NO guitar standards, and NO standard guitars. The reality is, the only way to get the MAX output from an amp is to use a dreaded (and necessary) signal generator at maximun input voltage. There is no guarantee the actual output is "musical", or pleasing to the human ear.
Headroom (!) sounds great to me, as far as an answer goes.
+1. Sunn created high quality S/S gear 30 years ago.
Great thread!
I think S/S gear gets a free-ride in the lab. There are NO guitar standards, and NO standard guitars. The reality is, the only way to get the MAX output from an amp is to use a dreaded (and necessary) signal generator at maximun input voltage. There is no guarantee the actual output is "musical", or pleasing to the human ear.
Headroom (!) sounds great to me, as far as an answer goes.
Last edited:
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
I'm confused.....are you agreeing with me or not? 'Cause it sounds like you are, but I'm not sure.
I'm confused.....are you agreeing with me or not? 'Cause it sounds like you are, but I'm not sure.
Stevo
Tonus Maximus Pacificas
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
No one has mentioned RMS power? :smack:
RMS power is about 2.5 times that of peak/peak power. Tube amps are rated in terms of RMS.
The factor of Root Mean Square comes from a calculus integral that deals with sine waves. Basically, you can convert peak to peak power to RMS power by multiplying half of the sine wave by the square root of 1/2 (roughly 0.707)
This is also the method used to find the 'DC equivalent' of a sine wave. If you fully rectify a sine wave and filter it, then you create DC with a value of half the AC voltage times 0.707.
No one has mentioned RMS power? :smack:
RMS power is about 2.5 times that of peak/peak power. Tube amps are rated in terms of RMS.
The factor of Root Mean Square comes from a calculus integral that deals with sine waves. Basically, you can convert peak to peak power to RMS power by multiplying half of the sine wave by the square root of 1/2 (roughly 0.707)
This is also the method used to find the 'DC equivalent' of a sine wave. If you fully rectify a sine wave and filter it, then you create DC with a value of half the AC voltage times 0.707.
AdmiralB
New member
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
Huh? RMS is far LESS than peak. And ALL amps are rated in terms of RMS. The catch is...at what amount of THD?
Huh? RMS is far LESS than peak. And ALL amps are rated in terms of RMS. The catch is...at what amount of THD?
Stevo
Tonus Maximus Pacificas
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
A 50w RMS amp has much more power than a 50w peak amp.
devastone
Well-known member
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
You're right and wrong, your first statement is wrong, after that you are right about RMS being pretty much 70% of peak. So, if an amp is rated at RMS, then its peak is higher, but most amps are rated for RMS output.
As far as rectified DC voltage, yeah, if you fully rectify it (I missed "fully" the first time I read your post), it is about 70% with some ripple on top. That ripple is the noise that you want to filter out, but that's another topic.
Yes, an amp that is rated at 50W RMS will have more power than an amp that is rated at 50W peak because the 50W peak amp means thats all it has, the 50W RMS rated amp is peaking around 70W. But, there are other factors involved, you might want to read up on peak vs RMS. I'm no saying that to be a jerk, there are some good articles out there, and some confusing ones too.
Stevo said:
You're right and wrong, your first statement is wrong, after that you are right about RMS being pretty much 70% of peak. So, if an amp is rated at RMS, then its peak is higher, but most amps are rated for RMS output.
As far as rectified DC voltage, yeah, if you fully rectify it (I missed "fully" the first time I read your post), it is about 70% with some ripple on top. That ripple is the noise that you want to filter out, but that's another topic.
Stevo said:
Yes, an amp that is rated at 50W RMS will have more power than an amp that is rated at 50W peak because the 50W peak amp means thats all it has, the 50W RMS rated amp is peaking around 70W. But, there are other factors involved, you might want to read up on peak vs RMS. I'm no saying that to be a jerk, there are some good articles out there, and some confusing ones too.
Last edited:
Simon_F
Super Moderator
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
I must remind you that political discussions are banned here! :nono:
I must remind you that political discussions are banned here! :nono:
Stevo
Tonus Maximus Pacificas
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
:fing25: I studied electronic engineering in school and I have built amplifiers. I had to derive all mathematical calculations before building circuits. If any one wants to know how to derive RMS from calculus integrals, then please let me know.
Stevo
Tonus Maximus Pacificas
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
Good point, especially from someone who actually knows what's up :smokin:Play!!!..and don't worry about stuff lke this!..
AdmiralB
New member
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
Then of course you know that there is no such thing as "RMS power".
Then of course you know that there is no such thing as "RMS power".
Stevo
Tonus Maximus Pacificas
Re: So why ARE tube amps louder than solid state?
Root Mean Square applied to a sine wave. Call it what you want, but the sine wave represents power (amplitude which is applied to resistance and creates current) and the RMS represents a derived value of that wave.
Last edited:
Similar threads
