Source for double thick A8 mags?

[Chistopher]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

Keep up the good work!

You mean asking questions he already knows the answer to, derailing 3/4 of the thread?

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

You mean asking questions he already knows the answer to, derailing 3/4 of the thread?

What question are you referring to? Are you confusing me with someone else?

 

['59]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

If I could chime in, I know it's a bit late, but one time I tried to convert a Custom I had to a double thick magnet. One of my bandmates had one and it had just what was looking for massive low end and aggressive mids. I decided to try this buy taping the magnets together so they repel to build my own double thick ceramic.

It didn't have nearly the same effect as my band mates, the guitar only got a little more output and almost an unnoticeable increase in treble. I can't speak for the longevity though, I just tore the sucker out and put a real double thick ceramic in. It sounded so much better.

If someone has the time and spare magnets, it would be a good thing to try getting two A2s measure the guass and tapping them together, leaving them for a few days and then remeasure the gauss on the individual magnets.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

However, there's a quite interested read in the Wiki "magnetic field" link posted by LtKojak.

What happened to him anyway? I haven't seen any contributions for quite a while now. If he left the group is a shame. He was quite knowledgeable, although he was quite "colorful" in the way he sometimes delivered.

/Peter

Pepe hasn't been around for a couple of months; I think his last post was in Sept. I miss his comments. Hope he's okay and dropped out by choice rather than because of any troubles.

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

Magnets don't use up energy repelling each other, at least no more so than they do in their solid form. You will have to force them together in the way they don't naturally want to be, with both poles side by side instead of opposite ends of each other, but you have to deal with the same sort of thing when you stick two bar magnets into a P-90. You can either glue them together so that they stay that way indefinitely, or just use the pickup's housing to double as a clamp to hold the magnets in place.

What happens with all alnicos is if you force them in repulsion some of their energy is lost which is 'irrecoverable' this is more so in Aln 2,3,4 &5 . Aln 8 has the best resistance to demagnetisation so you possibly wouldn't notice. This can always be overcome by remagnetising afterwards

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

If I could chime in, I know it's a bit late, but one time I tried to convert a Custom I had to a double thick magnet. One of my bandmates had one and it had just what was looking for massive low end and aggressive mids. I decided to try this buy taping the magnets together so they repel to build my own double thick ceramic.

It didn't have nearly the same effect as my band mates, the guitar only got a little more output and almost an unnoticeable increase in treble. I can't speak for the longevity though, I just tore the sucker out and put a real double thick ceramic in. It sounded so much better.

If someone has the time and spare magnets, it would be a good thing to try getting two A2s measure the guass and tapping them together, leaving them for a few days and then remeasure the gauss on the individual magnets.

I would guess at around 20%-40% loss on Alnico 2

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

All magnets fight themselves, that's the nature of magnets.




That's not true of all magnets, even AlNiCo magnets. Again, the extent to which this happens is quantified as the "coercivity", and then beyond that the shape of the magnet will also play a role in how liable it is to lose remanent flux over time. Again, when you stack two magnets so that they are parallel with their poles aligned, the aggregate of the two is not different than if you only have the one larger magnet. The only difference is that the two magnets need to be mechanically held together, whereas a solid magnet is holding itself together.

True, although magnetically speaking if you could force 2 mags together so their poles were aligned in repulsion so that there was absolute zero air gap between them (is impossible with 2 separate magnets because of surface finishes/tolerances etc) they would hold together as one magnet (there would be some magnetic loss as Alnico has the lowest coercivity of all magnet materials)

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

If it were as simple as slapping some glue onto two magnets don't you think people would have been doing that already? If you glue two magnets together in the way that their North and South poles would align, as you would need to do for a pickup, they would be constantly degaussing each other. The only way to avoid this would be do either have one double thick A8, or bond together two uncharged A8 and then charge them afterward.

And if I put to paper every last guitar hardware related experience I had, I would have no time to either practice, mod guitars, or talk about it online and it would suck the fun out of all three.

You asked if stacking magnets could be done, I assume as a DIY thing, I said no. And now you spent 6 paragraphs telling me why I'm wrong.

???

The magnets would only deagauss each other on the apporach to being in contact. once in contact they stop deagsussing each other. I would say between 5-15% is lost with Alnico 8 in this process. Remagnetising afterwards brings the magnet back to saturation, i.e. full strength, virtually the same as 1 double thickne magnet. it would be slightly less because of the split line between the 2 magnets from the slight loss of material. the difference in flux would be <1%

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

Doing so would mitigate it a tiny little bit, but the duel of the repeling forces of each mag with the other remains the same.

The real world effect of using bonded, stacked magnets is subtetly reducing pick attack and articulation, plus some degree of comb filtering effect.

I, in good conscience, would not advice to use such contraption as a permanent solution.

However, if what's wanted is simply to hit even harder the first gain stage of an amp at max distortion, then all the discribed effect won't matter.

/Peter

not entirely true. The magents would degauss each other as they approach in repulsion but once together this would cease and not go any further. Remagnetising brings back to full strength and the magnets would quite happily stay like that. Only normal degaussing from use would occur.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

Thank you, cermag, for coming back to this thread and clarifying what is fact and what is fiction.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

True, although magnetically speaking if you could force 2 mags together so their poles were aligned in repulsion so that there was absolute zero air gap between them (is impossible with 2 separate magnets because of surface finishes/tolerances etc) they would hold together as one magnet (there would be some magnetic loss as Alnico has the lowest coercivity of all magnet materials)

I appreciate your coming back to answer questions. I don't understand why the zero air gap between two parallel magnets would cause them to willfully hold together, though. Can you explain why that would be the case?

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

I appreciate your coming back to answer questions. I don't understand why the zero air gap between two parallel magnets would cause them to willfully hold together, though. Can you explain why that would be the case?

No problem. it works in the same way a solid magnet doesnt split in 2, the molecules become fixed. We are talking absolute zero airgap though, no gap at all. This is the reason we bond using 2 part adhesive because we cant achive absolute zero gap using 2 magnets. Mike

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

No problem. it works in the same way a solid magnet doesnt split in 2, the molecules become fixed.

I don't understand, like if you have a completely demagnetized AlNiCo, it still holds itself together, so there has to be more than just magnetic attraction holding it all together.

 

[PicoRiveraTele]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

I did some research, and it appears that magnetic dipoles so support each other in parallel due to "low exchange energy", but it appears that this only happens within discrete magnetic domains. Even if you join two magnets together with atom-to-atom proximity, there will still be walls between their respective domains. This exchange interaction would only work to hold two magnets together if the whole thing was one large, single magnetic domain.

 

[cermag]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

I don't understand, like if you have a completely demagnetized AlNiCo, it still holds itself together, so there has to be more than just magnetic attraction holding it all together.

Without getting out of my depths on physics, Alnico like all other materials doesnt need magnetic attraction to hold itself together

I did some research, and it appears that magnetic dipoles so support each other in parallel due to "low exchange energy", but it appears that this only happens within discrete magnetic domains. Even if you join two magnets together with atom-to-atom proximity, there will still be walls between their respective domains. This exchange interaction would only work to hold two magnets together if the whole thing was one large, single magnetic domain.

not sure of your statement but magnet materials are made up of many (millions) of magnetic domains (like tiny conpass needles)...in isotropic (unorientated) materials, the direction they point are all 'chaotic' where anisotropic (orientated) materials they all point in the same direction...the main reason why orientated magnets have a higher magnetic energy. Magnetic domain alignment and atomic cohesion dont really have anything to do with each other and can exist without each other to some extent.

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

Cermag, how would one go about ordering one of these special A8 magnets? I too have been looking for a double thick A8.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

Cermag, how would one go about ordering one of these special A8 magnets? I too have been looking for a double thick A8.

That's why this thread was started in fact. You can easily buy double thick A8s from Axesrus, but they are a bit pricey for what they are.

 

[revolution]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

I found them for sale at Axes R Us but they're ridiculously overpriced. I just don't feel right paying $16.50 for a humbucker magnet.

Cermag Ltd has reasonably priced double thick A5s but they don't offer A8s.

AddictionFX, usually my go-to, doesn't carry double thickness mags.

Any suggestions?

You building a Super 70?

 

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

That's why this thread was started in fact. You can easily buy double thick A8s from Axesrus, but they are a bit pricey for what they are.

16.50 might be a wash in this case since Cermag is in the uk, and shipping alone may cost close. But then again so is axes r us.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Source for double thick A8 mags?

You building a Super 70?

Nope- I want to sweeten a Distortion set. And I have an old SH-7 that I'd like to try alnico in too.