Speaker Changes..??

[BloodRose]

Want to try some speaker swappin... Ive done one before and that was in a PV Classic 30. Put an Emi Private Jack in for the stock PV speaker.

Have some questions being a newbster tho..

to start with: Im going to either pull the Celestion 75s out of may avatar 2x12 and do a GB, vin 30 combo.. OR, take two of the British series speakers out of my Carvin 4x12 (Which Ive been told those speakers were designed to be similar to Vin 30s.) and do 2 greenbacks in it.

Prolly start with the Avatar 2x12 since its more readily avail,

Questions tho:
1) In a 4x12, its best to do an x pattern right?

2) How do you figure what ohms speakers to get? My Avatar is rated at 8 Ohms. So do I get 2 4 ohm speakers or 2 / 8Ohm speakers?

3) What are the best inexpensive Green Back and vin 30 copies?? WGS, Warehouse, Eminence, etc??

They both sound pretty good, but want better and more of a classic tone as Im running a splawn head. Thanks!

 

[Demanic]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Your Avatar probably has two 16 ohm speakers wired in parallel.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[devastone]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

What Demanic said, 2X 16 ohm speakers in parallel.

What are you trying to accomplish with the speaker change? Which 75s do you have the G12H-75 (the "Hendrix" speaker) or the G12T-75 (Malmsteen). I personally like the G12T-75s, I thought the V30s were to mid-rangy when I tried them, of course that probably puts me in the minority.

The V30s will be slightly louder than the G12Ms (GBs) they are rated 4dB more sensitive and the GBs are only rated at 20W.

http://celestion.com/category/4/Guitar/

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

WGS is Warehouse Guitar Speakers. They don't exactly copy the speaker models. They do speakers based on the Celestion models. A WGS Green Beret is not a Greenback and a WGS Veteran 30 is not a Vintage 30. There are similarities but they aren't "clones". Personally, I like the WGS Veterans and Invaders. But again, they aren't clones. If you want a Greenback, maybe watch for used. Or, maybe consider Scumback ... although they aren't exactly cheap.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

My experience thus far with 8 ohm 2x12 cabs has been that they were loaded with 8 ohm speakers (Bogner, Friedman, etc). I tend to prefer 16 ohm speakers and cabs.

 

[devastone]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

You can't wire 2 - 8 ohm speakers to get an 8 ohm total load. You can only get 4 ohms in parallel or 16 ohms in series. I don't doubt those cabs are 8 ohm cabs, but I'll bet the speakers are 16 ohm speakers. No black magic to get around Ohms Law (that's really what it is called, named after German physicist Georg Ohm), it's the first thing you learn in 'lectronics school.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

You can't wire 2 - 8 ohm speakers to get an 8 ohm total load. You can only get 4 ohms in parallel or 16 ohms in series. I don't doubt those cabs are 8 ohm cabs, but I'll bet the speakers are 16 ohm speakers. No black magic to get around Ohms Law (that's really what it is called, named after German physicist Georg Ohm), it's the first thing you learn in 'lectronics school.

Good point. I'd swear that my old Bogner OS2x12 had 8ohm speakers in it. Must've been wrong on that. And my current Friedman 2x12 is an 8ohm cab, so it must have 16 ohm V30s in it I guess.

I do speaker swaps and cab wiring changes on occasion, and always google ohm calcs when I do (usually with 4x12 cabs and not 2x12s). But I do that just occasionally enough that I have to look it up every time and it's not in my brain.

 

[devastone]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Here's the formulas if you want to know them:

Series Rt = R1 + R2 + ... + Rn (basically just add up all the series resistance, technically it would be called impedance, but doesn't matter here)

Parallel Rt = 1/(1/R1 + 1/R2 + ... +1/Rn) (the inverse of the sum of the inverses of the impedances) but it's easy if you are dealing with 2 or 4 of the same impedance. If you have 2 of the same impedance, it's 1/2 of the impedance of one speaker, 2X 8 ohm speakers in parallel = 4 ohm total. If you have 4 of the same impedance speakers it's 1/4 of the impedance of one speaker, 4X 16 ohm speakers = 4 ohm total impedance, 4X 8 ohm speakers = 2 ohms.

In 4-12 cabs you can do series/parallel wiring, that's how you hook up 4X 16 ohm speakers to get a 16 ohm total.

FYI, although you probably already know, it's not recommended to mix speaker impedances because it will not split the power equally, mixing a 16 ohm and an 8 ohm speaker would mean that 2/3 of the power would go into the 8 ohm speaker and only 1/3 the power would go into the 16 ohm speaker.

Sorry, probably TMI...

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Here's the formulas if you want to know them:

Series Rt = R1 + R2 + ... + Rn (basically just add up all the series resistance, technically it would be called impedance, but doesn't matter here)

Parallel Rt = 1/(1/R1 + 1/R2 + ... +1/Rn) (the inverse of the sum of the inverses of the impedances) but it's easy if you are dealing with 2 or 4 of the same impedance. If you have 2 of the same impedance, it's 1/2 of the impedance of one speaker, 2X 8 ohm speakers in parallel = 4 ohm total. If you have 4 of the same impedance speakers it's 1/4 of the impedance of one speaker, 4X 16 ohm speakers = 4 ohm total impedance, 4X 8 ohm speakers = 2 ohms.

In 4-12 cabs you can do series/parallel wiring, that's how you hook up 4X 16 ohm speakers to get a 16 ohm total.

FYI, although you probably already know, it's not recommended to mix speaker impedances because it will not split the power equally, mixing a 16 ohm and an 8 ohm speaker would mean that 2/3 of the power would go into the 8 ohm speaker and only 1/3 the power would go into the 16 ohm speaker.

Sorry, probably TMI...

Ha ha.. thanks man. Yeah, I never mix impedence. I'm a 16 ohm speaker guy and would just as soon have every speaker in every cab at that impedence.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Pretty sure they are G12t75 in that cab. Seems like Ive posted on the topic before and been told those speakers really need to be pushed to sound their best. I cant really play loud to often. As far as what Im trying to achieve..?? Better? Don't have much experience with speaker changes other than the PV and made a big diff. I cant say these are too middy or too.. Just trying to get the most out of my Splawn head and such..


So, for an 8 Ohm cab, I need 2 16 ohm speakers then?

 

[dave74]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Yelp, Two 16ohms wired parallel = an 8ohm cab.

X-pattern is good with a slant cab, but with a straight I seem to prefer top/bottom, but it also depends on which speaker models are matched.

I'd probably recommend using the 212 cab trying different combos, but for a more classic tone maybe first try keeping one of the t75 and matching it with a greeny or v30.

Just keep in mind that using a greenback as one of the speakers in the 212 will result in a 50w cab, which could be an issue in the future should you run a full-power head at mean volumes.
Doing a v30/t75 mix will make it a 120w cab.

 

[devastone]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

I posted a link to the Celestion speakers in my first post, good to be able to sort through them and see what the differences are.

Eminence also makes great speakers and have a plethora of choices for guitar. IMO, probably the best deal is Warehouse speakers, made in the US and cheaper than the new MIC Celestions - https://wgs4.com/

Lots of options out there, and as you found out with your PV, a speaker change can make a huge difference.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

You should look at the Splawn Small Block speakers. I've always been a Celestion guy, but my Quickrod sounds awesome into my Small Block loaded Splawn slant 4x12. Any time I've plugged the Quickrod into one of my other Celestion-loaded 4x12s or Friedman 2x12 (V30s), I've found that I prefer the sound of the Small Blocks.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

yeah, my splawn cab sounds great! Just right now, due to space limitations, Im only able to use my 2x12 cab and want to get the most out of it. I also have a Carvin 4x12 that I hope to use again in the future, so Im going to upgrade the speakers in it too down the road

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Its been suggested that in my 2x12 cab, that I start by replacing one speaker at a time to see how I like it.. Not a bad idea.
How would a WGS Veteran 30 sound with one of the celestion 75s?

in my 4x12, Id eventually like to have a 2 Green Beret, 2 Veteran 30 set up in a X pattern.. would a 2 x12 sound good with one GB and one Vet30? Same type of balance effect I guess...???

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Its been suggested that in my 2x12 cab, that I start by replacing one speaker at a time to see how I like it.. Not a bad idea.
How would a WGS Veteran 30 sound with one of the celestion 75s?

in my 4x12, Id eventually like to have a 2 Green Beret, 2 Veteran 30 set up in a X pattern.. would a 2 x12 sound good with one GB and one Vet30? Same type of balance effect I guess...???

I'm running all Invaders in a 4X12. But I had the Invaders paired with Vet 30's for a while, at one point. Invaders aren't exactly like the Green Berets but similar enough that I would think that the Vet and GB should be a good combination. This all assumes that you aren't expecting the WGS speakers to be clones of Celestions.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

I thought my Eminence Governor and Wizard combo would be what I used forever, but after replacing them with a pair of WGS Green Berets, I think I'm convinced I'm a Greenback guy at heart. All are extremely high-quality speakers, but that thick Greenback early breakup is just what I wanted all along.

 

[BloodRose]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Im not that well versed on celestions to expect those tones. i know the 75s in my cab, i know the carvin british series. i do know what a big diff the private jack made over the stock pv. And Lastly, being around for years, I also have picked up on the fact that Celestion Vin 30s and Greenbacks seem to be the premier rock speakers. So, Im looking to get into that vein..

 

[Darg1911]

Re: Speaker Changes..??

Im not that well versed on celestions to expect those tones. i know the 75s in my cab, i know the carvin british series. i do know what a big diff the private jack made over the stock pv. And Lastly, being around for years, I also have picked up on the fact that Celestion Vin 30s and Greenbacks seem to be the premier rock speakers. So, Im looking to get into that vein..

Aside from listening to all you can find online in terms of video demos, you're probably going to have to just dive in. Unfortunately, it's not easy to hunt down rigs with WGS speakers to audition in person.