Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

B2D

SDUGF Riffologist Supremö
OK, I’m almost there in my quest for getting *the* speaker to match with my Bogner Ecstasy.

In my Marshall 1936 2x12, I was using a G12H30/V30 combo, and then switched to dual V30’s and liked that better. I recently acquired another 1936 with G12T75’s and those speakers get me ALMOST there… they’re WAY closer to what I want as far as the tones I’m getting out of the Bogner.

I’ve never been a fan of the G12T75’s but they seem to be the perfect match for this amp and the sound I’m going after. Tight lows, very level mids, and articulate highs.

If I could get a speaker that gave me lows that were just a little bit fatter and more high mids with a clearer voicing than the V30, I think I’d have it. The V30s seemed to be midrange dominant when used with my amp and I want a tone that’s more or less level across the board… tight chunky lows, crisp and articulate mids, and clear defined highs.

Steve Vai’s tone on Alien Love Secrets… particularly on Die to Live and Bad Horsie... like that, geddit? I know he used an Ecstasy for a good chunk of the dirt tones on that record so it makes choosing a speaker that much easier for comparison.

For the record, I haven’t experimented yet with using my V30 cab and my G12T75 cab in tandem, but I will tonight at practice. I’ve not had good luck with mixing speakers, though. I seem to always like the tone of non-hybrid cabs better.

WGS’s description of their Retro 30 sounds like something I’d dig so I’m seriously considering trying those. It’s a long shot but maybe also some G12-65’s might sound good on their own or mixed up. I don’t know if Eminence has any speakers I’d dig… I only have personal experience with the Wizard and the Governor and didn’t like either of them that much. Based on the descriptions a Texas Heat or Man-O-War may work… Keep in mind the G12T75 gets me as close as I’ve ever gotten to what I want.

As always, I appreciate everyone’s help here. :D
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

i think the manowar is emi's g12t75, so it'd be worth checking out

but the g12t75/v30 combo is popular, may want to give it a go first
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

OK, I’m almost there in my quest for getting *the* speaker to match with my Bogner Ecstasy.

In my Marshall 1936 2x12, I was using a G12H30/V30 combo, and then switched to dual V30’s and liked that better. I recently acquired another 1936 with G12T75’s and those speakers get me ALMOST there… they’re WAY closer to what I want as far as the tones I’m getting out of the Bogner.

I’ve never been a fan of the G12T75’s but they seem to be the perfect match for this amp and the sound I’m going after. Tight lows, very level mids, and articulate highs.

If I could get a speaker that gave me lows that were just a little bit fatter and more high mids with a clearer voicing than the V30, I think I’d have it. The V30s seemed to be midrange dominant when used with my amp and I want a tone that’s more or less level across the board… tight chunky lows, crisp and articulate mids, and clear defined highs.

Steve Vai’s tone on Alien Love Secrets… particularly on Die to Live and Bad Horsie... like that, geddit? I know he used an Ecstasy for a good chunk of the dirt tones on that record so it makes choosing a speaker that much easier for comparison.

For the record, I haven’t experimented yet with using my V30 cab and my G12T75 cab in tandem, but I will tonight at practice. I’ve not had good luck with mixing speakers, though. I seem to always like the tone of non-hybrid cabs better.

WGS’s description of their Retro 30 sounds like something I’d dig so I’m seriously considering trying those. It’s a long shot but maybe also some G12-65’s might sound good on their own or mixed up. I don’t know if Eminence has any speakers I’d dig… I only have personal experience with the Wizard and the Governor and didn’t like either of them that much. Based on the descriptions a Texas Heat or Man-O-War may work… Keep in mind the G12T75 gets me as close as I’ve ever gotten to what I want.

As always, I appreciate everyone’s help here. :D


Ya know Brendan you might want to go the route that Reinholdt went with the Uberkab and mix the V30s and T75s...I mean you've got the speakers handy still don't you?

Luke
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

i think the manowar is emi's g12t75, so it'd be worth checking out

but the g12t75/v30 combo is popular, may want to give it a go first

Ya know Brendan you might want to go the route that Reinholdt went with the Uberkab and mix the V30s and T75s...I mean you've got the speakers handy still don't you?

Luke

Well, last night at rehearsal I ran both the V30 and T75 cabs together and this was what I thought:

The V30s would've complemented the T75's perfectly if the 75's were as loud as the V30's were (97 db vs. 100 db. sensitivity). Also, the V30's were producing a somewhat nasally overtone (kind of an "aahhhh" sound) in the upper mids that I did not care for.

If I could bring the T75's up to the V30 volume and get rid of that high-mid overtone I think I'd be golden...
 
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Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

+1000

IMO You just described A Scumback H75 or H55 to a T.

When did I do that? Which part? When i said, "If I could bring the T75's up to the V30 volume and get rid of that high-mid overtone I think I'd be golden... " ?
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

If I could get a speaker that gave me lows that were just a little bit fatter and more high mids with a clearer voicing than the V30, I think I’d have it. The V30s seemed to be midrange dominant when used with my amp and I want a tone that’s more or less level across the board… tight chunky lows, crisp and articulate mids, and clear defined highs.

What you described here. The H75's will give you a tone that is more ballanced with fatter lows, clearer and more articulate highs, and more complex mids that are much more pleasant and less grating to the ear. Even my girlfriend (who does not play guitar) could easily hear a significant positive difference when I was comparing Jim's Scumbacks to the V30's in my Bogner 2X12. This is the same suggestion that I gave you in Part I of your thread and I stick with my original recommendation.
 
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Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

What you described here. The H75's will give you a tone that is more ballanced with fatter lows, clearer and more articulate highs, and more complex mids that are much more pleasant and less grating to the ear. Even my girlfriend (who does not play guitar) could easily hear a significant positive difference when I was comparing Jim's Scumbacks to the V30's in my Bogner 2X12. This is the same suggestion that I gave you in Part I of your thread and I stick with my original recommendation.

Yes it is, and I do remember that. I also remember getting scared by the price. :D

But then again these people are in the 310 (close enough to me to drive there), and I recall you saying that I could arrange an appointment to demo them if I want to, correct?
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

Yes it is, and I do remember that. I also remember getting scared by the price. :D

But then again these people are in the 310 (close enough to me to drive there), and I recall you saying that I could arrange an appointment to demo them if I want to, correct?

That's correct. They are expensive but in my opinion they are so good that I would be willing to pay double the cost. In the short term they are more expensive than the Chinese made celestions, but I think that in the long term you will save money by buying the best the first time around and not being tempted to spend more money switching. A real pre rola celestion will cost significantly more and most likely not sound as good unless you got really really lucky. Jim is one of the nicest guys that I have met and he will let you demo your amp through his speakers with no obligation to buy. You are also welcome to try running your head through my setup if you want before contacting Jim.
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

Since you already have Vintage 30's why bother with the WGS Retro 30, it's just a V30 clone...

Also, since you said you had a V30/H30 mix, swapped the H30 for another V30 and liked that better then don't even bother wiht the Scumback H75...it's based on a 75Hz cone H30 (which is what the H30 you had was)so if you didn't care for the H30 then the H75 Scummie woudl more than likely be a no go as well.

G12-65's will be pretty different from the G12T75's...lots less bass, way more mids, more crunch and duller/more subtle highs....

There is no way really to get of the mid punch in a V30 and w/o changing the tone of one or both speakers there is really no way to even out the levels of the V30 and the G12T75...in the Celestion line up...

If I were you I'd email the people at eminence and tell them what you're up against with the G12T75 and the Vintage 30 and have them make a suggestion and go from there...
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

Also, since you said you had a V30/H30 mix, swapped the H30 for another V30 and liked that better then don't even bother wiht the Scumback H75...it's based on a 75Hz cone H30 (which is what the H30 you had was)so if you didn't care for the H30 then the H75 Scummie woudl more than likely be a no go as well...

Incorrect. Just because a product is based on something does not mean that it necessarily comes close to the quality of the real thing, which is one reason why people spend the high dollars for the "real" vintage gear as opposed to the cheaper mass produced reissues. The difference between the speakers in question is very significant and if you were to actually hear the Chinese Celestion G12H30 compared to the Scumback H55 or H75 in person then you would not say this. If you think that todays Chinese made Celestion speakers sound the same as the good pre-rola celestions that Jim based his speakers on then you have never heard them compared in person. They are not the same or even close for that matter imo. FWIW even the Scumback H55, H75, and H75 LDC sound different from one another with the same magnet.
 
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Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

Since you already have Vintage 30's why bother with the WGS Retro 30, it's just a V30 clone...

The Retro 30 claims to have "a brighter and more articulate ...deeper and tighter bottom end" tone to it, compared to the Veteran 30, which is what I want. They also claimed to have smoothed out that high mid spike, which is probably the "aaahhh" overtone I'm hearing.

Also, since you said you had a V30/H30 mix, swapped the H30 for another V30 and liked that better then don't even bother wiht the Scumback H75...it's based on a 75Hz cone H30 (which is what the H30 you had was)so if you didn't care for the H30 then the H75 Scummie woudl more than likely be a no go as well.

I'll have to hold all further judgement on the Scumbacks until I actually go and play some, which I would like to do. They're not too far away from me but I probably won't be able to get up there until the end of the year, due to my personal schedule.

G12-65's will be pretty different from the G12T75's...lots less bass, way more mids, more crunch and duller/more subtle highs....
The more crunch part sounds good, but not everything else. :(

There is no way really to get of the mid punch in a V30 and w/o changing the tone of one or both speakers there is really no way to even out the levels of the V30 and the G12T75...in the Celestion line up....

If I were you I'd email the people at eminence and tell them what you're up against with the G12T75 and the Vintage 30 and have them make a suggestion and go from there...

Word on the street is that the Man-o-War is Emi's spin on a T75 and the Governor is Emi's spin on a V30. I've heard that the Man-o-War is louder and a little fuller than a T75, and based on the specs at least the louder part is most likely true (103 db vs. 97 db sensitivity). Maybe the Governor also has that mid spike thing smoothed out?

I just sold off my Hellatone 60's... I'll shoot a fw emails to WGS and Emi's customer service and see what they recommend and then probably make a decision for now. If I try out the Scumbacks down the road and find a model that does the trick I can always sell and buy up towards those.
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

Hey... almost forgot... what about Weber speakers? I used a pair of Ceramic 1230's once upon a time when I had my Mesa... massive bass and crunch from that cab, too much in fact but they did sound pretty good. Maybe I should email Ted and get his opinion as well.
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

For an idea that is not really a Celestion style at all but seems to fit a lot of your requirements you may want to look at the Swamp Thang.
 
Re: Speaker suggestions, Pt. II

swamps are kind of the opposite of v30's...

did you try putting the 75 cab on top of the v30 cab to balance it? I imagine you tried it both ways but it never hurts to ask...
 
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