korovamilkdud
WhoDatologist
What's the diff? What amps are good examples of each, what's the tonal qualities of both?
Maybe I should know better.
Maybe I should know better.
Speaker tone: American or British?
- Thread starter korovamilkdud
- Start date
drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
lets see
american cleans - fender
american dirt - peavey
british clean - vox
british dirt - marshall
a good analogy is, british dirt is like a machine gun butterfly, and american dirt is like a volcano. One posseses more chunk, while the other is more buzzy
lets see
american cleans - fender
american dirt - peavey
british clean - vox
british dirt - marshall
a good analogy is, british dirt is like a machine gun butterfly, and american dirt is like a volcano. One posseses more chunk, while the other is more buzzy
TwilightOdyssey
Darkness on the edge of Tone
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
I think that the iconic American tone is a vintage Fender, and the iconic British tone is a Plexi. However, over time, and as other great tones have come into play (Vox and Mesa come to mind), I don't think there's any one tone that defines either one any more ...
I think that the iconic American tone is a vintage Fender, and the iconic British tone is a Plexi. However, over time, and as other great tones have come into play (Vox and Mesa come to mind), I don't think there's any one tone that defines either one any more ...
drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
i'd also say that a good way to SEE the difference is on the eminence site. The governor is like a v30 clone, and the red white & blues is 'the american cousin'
look at the specs on both
i'd also say that a good way to SEE the difference is on the eminence site. The governor is like a v30 clone, and the red white & blues is 'the american cousin'
look at the specs on both
bluey@sunni
New member
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
Does it really matter where your speaker comes from so long as it goes to 11!
p.s. love Magic Dirt
Does it really matter where your speaker comes from so long as it goes to 11!
p.s. love Magic Dirt
TechMetalMan
New member
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
Yeah...now-adays though in the high gain territory British is still Marshall while American is Mesa.
It sometimes comes down to tubes as well El34 is known more for the british crunch while the 6l6 is more known for american thump or grind.
Of course these are just generalizations....
Yeah...now-adays though in the high gain territory British is still Marshall while American is Mesa.
It sometimes comes down to tubes as well El34 is known more for the british crunch while the 6l6 is more known for american thump or grind.
Of course these are just generalizations....
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
I use Celestion 12's in my vintage Fender amps and have no problem playing any style of music and getting the "right" tone.
But I do think Celestions have a little more "CHONK" to the mid range.
"CHONK" is a combination of "HONK" and a "CH" sound...like the sound a big knife makes when it cuts through a head of lettuce.....combine that "CH" with "HONK" and you get "CHONK".
And I think Celestions like the G12-25 Greenback have alot of that "CHONK" sound to the mids, G12H-30's have it too, but a little less and Vintage 30's have it too, but even less. Kind of a nice, slightly sizzly and textured honk to the mids from Celestions.
Jensens, EV's, JBL's, etc, don't have much "chonk" to the mids.
Lew
I use Celestion 12's in my vintage Fender amps and have no problem playing any style of music and getting the "right" tone.
But I do think Celestions have a little more "CHONK" to the mid range.
"CHONK" is a combination of "HONK" and a "CH" sound...like the sound a big knife makes when it cuts through a head of lettuce.....combine that "CH" with "HONK" and you get "CHONK".
And I think Celestions like the G12-25 Greenback have alot of that "CHONK" sound to the mids, G12H-30's have it too, but a little less and Vintage 30's have it too, but even less. Kind of a nice, slightly sizzly and textured honk to the mids from Celestions.
Jensens, EV's, JBL's, etc, don't have much "chonk" to the mids.
Lew
Neeradj
New member
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
When I think British I think thinner, natural, less overdriven, clear, classic
When I think american I think modern, thick, (more) saturated
The word British usually scares me off when mentioned with sound, not having to do with the people, I have some British friends and I think they're great. But I'm leaning more towards the progressive, fatter side of tone. I don't know if my description is correct just thought I'd mention the (crazy) things that pop into my mind whenever I hear about British and American tone.
When I think British I think thinner, natural, less overdriven, clear, classic
When I think american I think modern, thick, (more) saturated
The word British usually scares me off when mentioned with sound, not having to do with the people, I have some British friends and I think they're great. But I'm leaning more towards the progressive, fatter side of tone. I don't know if my description is correct just thought I'd mention the (crazy) things that pop into my mind whenever I hear about British and American tone.
Quencho092
New member
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
hmm... which speaker in your opinion, lew, embodies the thick, smooth, american tone? Could it be a Jensen P12N, or whichever one has that monster alnico bell magnet on the back?
And SRV's tone was all out overdriven american Fender vibroverb, but did he use british speakers to get a bit of that grit?
Last question, sorry for the hijack, how horrific are Peavey scorpions in the American speaker tone department? I hear they are really really nightmarishly bad....
hmm... which speaker in your opinion, lew, embodies the thick, smooth, american tone? Could it be a Jensen P12N, or whichever one has that monster alnico bell magnet on the back?
And SRV's tone was all out overdriven american Fender vibroverb, but did he use british speakers to get a bit of that grit?
Last question, sorry for the hijack, how horrific are Peavey scorpions in the American speaker tone department? I hear they are really really nightmarishly bad....
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Thames
Great White Malice
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
CHONK, that's it !! Thats the word! Cool Lew!
Yeah, some good points in there, if we resume :
- American : more highs and lows oriented, shy mids. Fender for cleans, Mesa for OD/Dist. That'd be the 2 icons.
- British : definitely mid-oriented, cut easily thru the mix, lots of character and punch, very tight mids, spongy lows, sweet highs. Hiwatts for cleans/punch, Marshall for OD.
Good thread.
CHONK, that's it !! Thats the word! Cool Lew!
Yeah, some good points in there, if we resume :
- American : more highs and lows oriented, shy mids. Fender for cleans, Mesa for OD/Dist. That'd be the 2 icons.
- British : definitely mid-oriented, cut easily thru the mix, lots of character and punch, very tight mids, spongy lows, sweet highs. Hiwatts for cleans/punch, Marshall for OD.
Good thread.
Bluzboy66
New member
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
Oooooo...... That's a good question. I think the answer would have been a lot simpler to answer before Soldano, and all the boutique amps came into play. And the mass-producers like Fender and Marshall are homogenizing their tones to appeal to a wider spectrum of player. In general, speakers no longer amplify genuine 'American' or 'British' tones these days. Amp builders are morphing characteristics from Fender, Mesa Boogie, Marshall, Vox, Hiwatt, etc., into versatile combinations.
From my limited experience, I'd say that Fender pretty much created the 'American' tone with their low wattage 'Deluxe' combo back in the 50's and 60's. Those amps used Jensen speakers that would 'burble' when pushed. Then they'd simply turn to warm pudding when saturated.........not exactly a bad thing. The amp geeks would crucify me for such a crude description. (Sorry guys)
Marshall and Vox conjured up the whole 'British' tone with the Celestions, and Eminence 12-inchers. The Greenbacks, Rolas, Blue Frames, and Bulldogs come to mind. These speakers actually 'crunch' when pushed, while developing a compressed and focused tone even at higher gain settings.
In modern amps, it's no longer cut-and-dry. Heck, even Fender is using Eminence-made 'Fender Gold Label' speakers in their amps these days.
Again, these are just my observations, not gospel. Me? I put Celestions in my Fender Hot Rod combos!! An excellent combination.
Mike
Oooooo...... That's a good question. I think the answer would have been a lot simpler to answer before Soldano, and all the boutique amps came into play. And the mass-producers like Fender and Marshall are homogenizing their tones to appeal to a wider spectrum of player. In general, speakers no longer amplify genuine 'American' or 'British' tones these days. Amp builders are morphing characteristics from Fender, Mesa Boogie, Marshall, Vox, Hiwatt, etc., into versatile combinations.
From my limited experience, I'd say that Fender pretty much created the 'American' tone with their low wattage 'Deluxe' combo back in the 50's and 60's. Those amps used Jensen speakers that would 'burble' when pushed. Then they'd simply turn to warm pudding when saturated.........not exactly a bad thing. The amp geeks would crucify me for such a crude description. (Sorry guys)
Marshall and Vox conjured up the whole 'British' tone with the Celestions, and Eminence 12-inchers. The Greenbacks, Rolas, Blue Frames, and Bulldogs come to mind. These speakers actually 'crunch' when pushed, while developing a compressed and focused tone even at higher gain settings.
In modern amps, it's no longer cut-and-dry. Heck, even Fender is using Eminence-made 'Fender Gold Label' speakers in their amps these days.
Again, these are just my observations, not gospel. Me? I put Celestions in my Fender Hot Rod combos!! An excellent combination.
Mike
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drew_half_empty
Looking for Real Life
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
i disagree about the mid properties of brit & american amps
americans have a lot (blues, blues = mids)
brits are kinda shy in the mids, which is why marshalls work well with les pauls
i disagree about the mid properties of brit & american amps
americans have a lot (blues, blues = mids)
brits are kinda shy in the mids, which is why marshalls work well with les pauls
Quencho092
New member
Re: Speaker tone: American or British?
blues doesn't neccessarily mean mid mania, its just a bit focused on lower mids and bass to get that sweet wail out of the amp; the more upper mids, the raunchier and raspier the tone. But besides that, brits have a raunchier mid range without a doubt. Marshall himself chose to start voicing his amps more aggressively by using ceramic magnets instead of the classic alnicos. Ceramic has a much edgier sound-the edginess comes from the upper mid range and the highs.
See for yourself at the eminence site.
blues doesn't neccessarily mean mid mania, its just a bit focused on lower mids and bass to get that sweet wail out of the amp; the more upper mids, the raunchier and raspier the tone. But besides that, brits have a raunchier mid range without a doubt. Marshall himself chose to start voicing his amps more aggressively by using ceramic magnets instead of the classic alnicos. Ceramic has a much edgier sound-the edginess comes from the upper mid range and the highs.
See for yourself at the eminence site.
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