Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

[everdrone]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I am gonna swap out the celestion v30s in my orange 212ppc closed back cab

and replace em with neodymiums. eminence tonkerlites. it will save about 12 pounds and that is my main concern. maybe a big tonal sacrifice, but to me it is worth it.

I just hate lifting 62 pound cabinets by myself!! I need a roadie...

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I am gonna swap out the celestion v30s in my orange 212ppc closed back cab

and replace em with neodymiums. eminence tonkerlites. it will save about 12 pounds and that is my main concern. maybe a big tonal sacrifice, but to me it is worth it.

I just hate lifting 62 pound cabinets by myself!! I need a roadie...

Does Celestion still make the Vintage Neo? It's still very much like the V30, but the weight savings of the Neodymium magnet. That is, if you still want the 30 sound.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Does Celestion still make the Vintage Neo? It's still very much like the V30, but the weight savings of the Neodymium magnet. That is, if you still want the 30 sound.

yes, they do! Thanks for my heavy downtuned rock, people have commented in my threads and others that the Celestion Vintage Neo is not the best choice for me though, and it would cost a lot of bank to try/compare

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Speakers make a substantial difference. I had almost no headroom to speak of in my Super Reverb - that changed when I went to a X pairing of Celestion 10'' G10N-40s and G10L-35s. Same thing happened with my Vibrolux Reverb. Humbuckers would shake that amp like there's no tomorrow until I ponied up the cash for (2) 10'' Celestion Alnico Golds and now I can turn up the volume and not be afraid to dig into the lower strings on my ES-335. I'm probably different from most folks in that I really love the Celestion sound with my Fenders - the Fenders keep that openness and shimmer and depth, but they tighten up on the lowend and the midrange presence hasn't been overbearing.

They can also break an amp. I had Weber Silver Bell/Blue Dogs in a Fargen 2x12'' Epic 30DC that I didn't particularly care for. I've also owned Celestion Classic Lead 80s in cabinets before and wasn't impressed either. The WGS G10C/S speakers were terrible in my Vibrolux (cut all treble out of the amp), so they really are a personal thing.

 

[MrTondo]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

The only thing producing the sound that will be heard is the speaker... It is the single biggest thing in determining the sound of the electric guitar. Since guitarspeakers are all in the same ballpark guitarplayers often have no real appreciation for these guys. Yet just start to play you guitar through a DI-box straight into a PA and you notice how much difference speakers really make. Even within the (generally) 12 inch guitarspeaker range there is a lot of difference to be heard as already has been pointed out.

It is often suggested to change tubes when an amp sounds too this or that, and for minor changes that will be the cheapest way. But if you really need a mid hump, or some extra tight lowend of whatever the need is, just look at the frequency response curves of your current speaker get some for other speakers and make the magical pick. Often for speakers the frequency response curves are way better documented than for pickups, amps, pedals etc. If you know what you want/need it is the easiest and probably cheapest way to get the tone you dream of. Especially if you've heard some speakers in the past that you like or did not like, look up their curves and compare them, you might find out what the secret to your (speaker) tone is...

 

[Animal]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

To answer the question, speakers are quite under-estimated.

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

yes, they do! Thanks for my heavy downtuned rock, people have commented in my threads and others that the Celestion Vintage Neo is not the best choice for me though, and it would cost a lot of bank to try/compare

I got a pair used on ebay years and years ago for less than $100. I still think they were close enough to a V30 that the difference will be moot. One thing I noticed is they may have had a little more "chirp" to them.

The TonkerLites should work well, too. I think they are supposed to be Emi's version of the Century CL80.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

The only thing producing the sound that will be heard is the speaker... It is the single biggest thing in determining the sound of the electric guitar. Since guitarspeakers are all in the same ballpark guitarplayers often have no real appreciation for these guys. Yet just start to play you guitar through a DI-box straight into a PA and you notice how much difference speakers really make. Even within the (generally) 12 inch guitarspeaker range there is a lot of difference to be heard as already has been pointed out.

It is often suggested to change tubes when an amp sounds too this or that, and for minor changes that will be the cheapest way. But if you really need a mid hump, or some extra tight lowend of whatever the need is, just look at the frequency response curves of your current speaker get some for other speakers and make the magical pick. Often for speakers the frequency response curves are way better documented than for pickups, amps, pedals etc. If you know what you want/need it is the easiest and probably cheapest way to get the tone you dream of. Especially if you've heard some speakers in the past that you like or did not like, look up their curves and compare them, you might find out what the secret to your (speaker) tone is...

Very well stated.
I will just say it one more time.....Guitar players (in general) Do Not spend enough money on speakers.
best

 

[Soulcrusher_X]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Case in point.....I dug out my REAL Greenback cab to use instead of my 5150 cab with Sheffield "Greenbacks" brighter, clearer, just better. Thank you Celestion.

 

[dr. ad]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

i wish i'd started swapping speakers a few years ago, instead of pickups and magnets.
wouldn't have learned as much, but probably would've sounded better and played more...

 

[B2D]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Changing your speakers will have a much larger impact than changing your pickup. Period.

Truth. A speaker change can be a night and day difference in how an amp is gonna sound. Whenever I'm buying an amp, I always make sure to test it through my personal cab that has a speaker combo that I know I like.

 

[MrTondo]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I guess if you want to change your overall sound/the sound of an amp, look to the speaker first, then to the tubes etc. If you want to change the sound of a specific guitar, look to pickups first, then to electronics etc.

 

[gvis]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I've always felt they make a big difference, based on my setup change experience, but I recently watched a you tube vid that compared all eminence speakers in a row at a namm show, and I have to say they all sounded basically the same to me. I'm sure a non-guitar player/non-musician wouldn't be able to tell the difference or care. It was all clean playing, so maybe under gain there'd be more noticeable differences. Or maybe it had something to do with being recorded at a namm event in a large, busy room.

Added to the mix of song, I wnder if any differences would be noticed. I still think they matter; just questioning it a little after the demo.

Sorry, I'm at work and can't access it and post the link.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I've always felt they make a big difference, based on my setup change experience, but I recently watched a you tube vid that compared all eminence speakers in a row at a namm show, and I have to say they all sounded basically the same to me. I'm sure a non-guitar player/non-musician wouldn't be able to tell the difference or care. It was all clean playing, so maybe under gain there'd be more noticeable differences. Or maybe it had something to do with being recorded at a namm event in a large, busy room.

Added to the mix of song, I wnder if any differences would be noticed. I still think they matter; just questioning it a little after the demo.

Sorry, I'm at work and can't access it and post the link.

Yeah and we all know that youtube vids are the premier in sound quality right? There is no loss or compression in their audio right? Laptop speakers are fantastic at reproducing true to life tones right?

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Everything plays a part in the sonic recipe. On an amp with negative fedback, you can completely redefine the amps character by changing the negative feedback resistor ... for less than twenty cents.

But then again, this is a place where people will change single-coil pickups in Strats without first trying a baseplate, so most stuff here is not logical or even properly understood.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Everything plays a part in the sonic recipe. On an amp with negative fedback, you can completely redefine the amps character by changing the negative feedback resistor ... for less than twenty cents.

But then again, this is a place where people will change single-coil pickups in Strats without first trying a baseplate, so most stuff here is not logical or even properly understood.

BUT HAVE YOU TRIED AN ALNICO 8?????????!!!!!!!!11111111

 

[some_dude]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I think something else understated is Cab construction, even with the same speakers different cabs can sound drastically different (easiest comparison of this is comparing MESA, Marshall and Orange Cabs with V30s).

The Mesa, Marshall and Orange cabs sound different in large part because they're each loaded with different speakers. Mesa and Marshall both use proprietary designs that differ in sound and construction from the generic Vintage 30 used in the Orange 4x12s.

On topic, I sold four amps and almost sold a fifth before I realized it was my cab I didn't like the sound of. I knew there was differences amongst speakers but I didn't realise the significance. I learned the lesson as a total fluke; I bought a Mesa 2x12 because I wanted something that was easier to move around than my Orange 4x12. That fifth amp suddenly came to life and I still have it. I've since bought a Mesa 4x12 and I haven't sold an amp in years.

 

[Lucy Diamond]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

All I know is I like the way my amp and guitar sounds and FEELS much more with Greenbacks than I do with Vintage 30s.

For me the difference is THAT apparent so the OP is definitely on to something by striking up this conversation.

 

[gvis]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

Yeah and we all know that youtube vids are the premier in sound quality right? There is no loss or compression in their audio right? Laptop speakers are fantastic at reproducing true to life tones right?

Well, true, and I was making that point. But then again, the majority of average listeners are in comparably poor environments, versus a few audophiles in ideal environments, so it's very possible such subtle differences are lost on them.

Just playing devil's advocate. In the end I'm in the camp that feels it does matter, but not necessarily by itself. Instead imo it's the sum of every ironed out detail the makes a total diffrence in the end, from instrument choice, to instrument setup, to gear, to recording technique, to mixing, etc., not forgetting of course the all important performance.

 

[dominus]

Re: Speakers; How under-estimated are they in an amps sound?

I'll just put this here:



and of course, everything this guy plays seems to sound the same:

http://www.youtube.com/user/gearmanndude


Probably because they're both usually mic'ing up the same speakers for all of their videos.