SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

Hang on....you probably have already tried but have you lowered the pickup height?

Again, I haven’t read through this whole thread but what I have read, I didn’t see any mention of pickup height.

Yes, I have tried lowering the pickups as far as they can go, in fact one of the recordings I did has that set up.

 

[freefrog]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

I mean I believe you but the sound doesn't only occur on bends, I can hear the "choke out" he's referring to in the tone, it's a kind of loss of sustain. Maybe it could be contributing to the problem, but I'm not sure how it would affect solid notes.

Delayed foreword: English is not at all my mother tongue.

That being said: in my understanding, the sound "chokes out" because something slightly mutes the vibration of the string. it can affect solid notes in the same way than the flesh of a thumb produces pinch harmonics, by faintly touching the vibrating string. Now, if it's a sympathic vibration, my explanation is wrong.

Regarding compressors, I'm not sure if it's because I have a generally mediocre compressor, but if I try to match the output so that the pedal isn't taking out a considerable amount of volume from the tone the sound does not go away in the slightest. At times it maybe even exacerbates it. However if I do take some volume out the issue does become a little more tame, although the sound starts to sound a little dull.

I know it probably doesn't make that much difference but my head is 15w, so not necessarily small but also not large.

A compressor won't cancel any annoying frequency. It should at least limit its volume relatively to other notes, like in the following chart (blue= non compressed track, pink = compressed one):

https://img.wavescdn.com/1lib/images/blog/banners/tips-to-avoid-over-compressing-your-mix/1.jpg

 

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

Delayed foreword: English is not at all my mother tongue.

That being said: in my understanding, the sound "chokes out" because something slightly mutes the vibration of the string. it can affect solid notes in the same way than the flesh of a thumb produces pinch harmonics, by faintly touching the vibrating string. Now, if it's a sympathic vibration, my explanation is wrong.



A compressor won't cancel any annoying frequency. It should at least limit its volume relatively to other notes, like in the following chart (blue= non compressed track, pink = compressed one):

https://img.wavescdn.com/1lib/images/blog/banners/tips-to-avoid-over-compressing-your-mix/1.jpg

I would have never known that English wan't your first language, you are very well spoken.

I believe I understand what you mean. The "choke out" seems to be related to the bend motion itself, and the slight movement in the saddle probably elicits a reaction. Therefore, the same idea can be applied to solid notes I assume.

Of course a compressor won't cancel frequencies, that sounds more like an eq pedal, it will simply reduce the signal by a certain amount once it gets past a certain threshold. However, this just means that the volume of the harmonic itself will just be about equal to the fundamental note after compression, and if you increase the output that will become even more apparent.

 

[Jacew]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

Another thing that came to mind, what did improved my tone, was to remove string trees. Usually it is said string trees reduce sympathetic vibration, but they really just move it to higher register. High notes do sound much better to me without them.

 

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

Another thing that came to mind, what did improved my tone, was to remove string trees. Usually it is said string trees reduce sympathetic vibration, but they really just move it to higher register. High notes do sound much better to me without them.

That's interesting. I remember thinking about this a while back, but never thought of it like that. I'll be sure to give that a try.

 

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

Another thing that came to mind, what did improved my tone, was to remove string trees. Usually it is said string trees reduce sympathetic vibration, but they really just move it to higher register. High notes do sound much better to me without them.

Unfortunately, that didn't do much. It might have changed the pitch of the harmonics but it definitely didn't make them less annoying.

 

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

So I've been a little fed up with the inability to post photos here so I created a Dropbox link that has a bunch of photos of my guitar if anyone is interested. I took them when I first got up in the morning one day, so I was too lazy to clean the dust from under the strings. Also, I tried electrical tape on the trem springs as a second method just to see if that would a difference, so that's on for these pictures.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8ye8alo0ozfwk4s/AAAZQe1IWs4fIBHOxz00uALHa?dl=0

Let me know if it works!

 

[freefrog]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

Of course a compressor won't cancel frequencies, that sounds more like an eq pedal, it will simply reduce the signal by a certain amount once it gets past a certain threshold. However, this just means that the volume of the harmonic itself will just be about equal to the fundamental note after compression, and if you increase the output that will become even more apparent.

That’s not my experience.
When I inject a 1khz fundamental then enable / disable the MXR or Boss compressors that I've here, any of my frequency analyzers shows the 3khz harmonic peak as being 3dB quieter through the compressors once the levels matched (3dB being the difference between a 50w and a 100w amp).
Now, that's probably why you find your Dynacomp dull sounding and why Bjorn @ Gilmourish claims that compressors “kill harmonics”. Personally, I just use low capacitance cables when I want to overcome this dulling influence.
That being said as a sidenote because I’ve not claimed compressors to be THE solution that you need: I just consider it as a general way to make the whole sound a little more homogenous / a tad less thin and squeaky with Strats needing it.

Regarding your pics: the saddles seem to be misaligned. Several (if not all) strings are sitting off center, next to their “initial grooves”… I’ve seen this problem more than once with vintage Strat trems but I’d certainly try to correct it with new saddles (not necessarily vintage bent steel) + stronger or fresher springs between saddles and trem plate.

I also find the height settings of the saddles and screws rather erratic and not clean at all. Potential sources of parasitic vibrations everywhere IMHO.

FWIW, I had once to replace the trem of a MIM Strat with a 2 pivots model because the original trem hadn’t been properly placed in the factory.

FOOTNOTE - I’ll have to limit my contributions to this topic, whatever is my willing to help : I’ve a boatload of work to do and some family problems to deal with.

Good luck again...

 

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

That’s not my experience.
When I inject a 1khz fundamental then enable / disable the MXR or Boss compressors that I've here, any of my frequency analyzers shows the 3khz harmonic peak as being 3dB quieter through the compressors once the levels matched (3dB being the difference between a 50w and a 100w amp).
Now, that's probably why you find your Dynacomp dull sounding and why Bjorn @ Gilmourish claims that compressors “kill harmonics”. Personally, I just use low capacitance cables when I want to overcome this dulling influence.
That being said as a sidenote because I’ve not claimed compressors to be THE solution that you need: I just consider it as a general way to make the whole sound a little more homogenous / a tad less thin and squeaky with Strats needing it.

Regarding your pics: the saddles seem to be misaligned. Several (if not all) strings are sitting off center, next to their “initial grooves”… I’ve seen this problem more than once with vintage Strat trems but I’d certainly try to correct it with new saddles (not necessarily vintage bent steel) + stronger or fresher springs between saddles and trem plate.

I also find the height settings of the saddles and screws rather erratic and not clean at all. Potential sources of parasitic vibrations everywhere IMHO.

FWIW, I had once to replace the trem of a MIM Strat with a 2 pivots model because the original trem hadn’t been properly placed in the factory.

FOOTNOTE - I’ll have to limit my contributions to this topic, whatever is my willing to help : I’ve a boatload of work to do and some family problems to deal with.

Good luck again...

Thanks so much for your contributions to this forum, your help has been invaluable. I'm sorry to hear that you are dealing with family problems. Whatever they are, I wish you the best.

To be honest, although I've been saying a compressor isn't quite working for me, I believe that plus the replacements you stated are the only options I have. Of course I could always put eq on top of it all, but those will affect the sound primarily before it's even produced by the amp.
I've wanted to replace my compressor, because I would like a little more control of the shaping of the compression.
However, I'm first going to go see to the repair and replacements you mentioned.
Thanks again.

 

[ZolloKaptain]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

It's been quite a while since my last post, but I observed something interesting today.

I noticed that a lot of people before in this thread were mentioning the importance of the tone pots, so I did a little test. I went to my middle and neck pup, because they were the only pups that had tone control wired and put the tone as low as it can go on the guitar. Then I used a boost pedal I had to add a bunch of treble back and noticed the ringing was still there. In fact, even when the tone is as low as possible, and without added eq, I think I can still hear it in the sound, just very quiet.
Then I tried a similar test with the volume control. I put the volume around 2, and then put the master on my amp at about 10, and still noticed the sound there, though it might have been slightly more manageable. However, this has the added byproduct of a bunch of amp hum that would be way too loud on recordings.

The method I have been using recently to try to record my guitar is by setting up a mic and using more than 90 degrees of off-axis rotation, which works in some cases but does have a noticeable effect on the sound, and I don't like being limited to only that setup.

I have not been to a tech to fix those potential "parasitic vibrations" Freefrog was referring to, even though I have wanted to, mainly because I have already hashed out more than $100 on a few different repairs which have done nothing. I'm just afraid that this will be the same. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[freefrog]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

I'd still suggest something in this list:

https://www.amazon.com/slp/fender-saddles/4pou6h4c3xjn9x9

Fresh saddles without blury grooves and with new springs, properly mounted on axis, each being laid horizontally.
Can be bought at less than 25 bucks, takes a few minutes to mount IME and IMHO, it doesn't require to pay nor even to be a tech - nor does it necessarily require new strings for someone careful. Action and intonation settings should be easy to match if the initial settings have been measured precisely.
It might be interesting to try Graph Tech saddles in this case...

 

[Clint 55]

Re: SSL-5 Bridge PUP Sounds Bright And Harsh

I don't even use springs with my saddles. One less thing to buzz.