stag mag

[2ndhandband]

Does anyone have any experience with the Stag mag in the bridge position? I need info both on how it sounds as a single-coil and as a humbucker. What I need is tight metal humbucker crunch AND Blackmore/Hendrix single coil in the bridge position from the same guitar. Is the stag mag going to do the job?

 

[Harhash]

Re: stag mag

I don't think that Stag Mag will suite you, you're also asking for two tones that are way different from each other!

Black Winter is a tight metal humbuckers that splits well, although it doesn't give the single coil tone you're lookin' for.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: stag mag

Maybe I'd better clarify: when I talk about metal, I mean Maiden or Sabbath more than I mean Metallica or Slayer.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: stag mag

Riogrande makes pickups that do this much better than the stag mag does. The stagmag as a humbucker is pretty thin and doesnt have a growly mid to pass for metal pickup, even early metal. Split it opens up and is bright but lacks body doesnt do the strat thing really at all.

Riogrands true split series are actually 2 singles ganged together instead of humbucker bobbins with rod mags so their single coil sounds are much more like singles the only down side is being its in humbucker form it doesnt sound perfect cause its positioned a bit different but is 90% of the way there.

The humbucker sounds are fatter and ruder and take high gain very well. But still are different from a normal humbucker. If you want some growl but not the compression of a humbucker its the way to go.

You can check them out here. http://riograndepickups.com/scart/ProductPage.asp?ImageLink=MGHB&ProductName=For+Humbuckings

http://riograndepickups.com/scart/ProductPage.asp?ImageLink=TBHB&ProductName=For+Humbuckings

 

[Harhash]

Re: stag mag

Rio Grandes are good option, right!

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: stag mag

Okay... assuming you guys have some direct experience with these, what model would you recommend? For context, I play in a band that does a half and half tribute show; half Black Sabbath and half Deep Purple. I also do weeknight blues gig. The pickup would be going in an Ibanez Rg760 with Duncan Antiquity Texas Hots in the neck and middle. I currently have a Screamin Demon in there but it's too dark and sounds like canned ass when split.

 

[Harhash]

Re: stag mag

I currently have a Screamin Demon in there but it's too dark and sounds like canned ass when split.

Do you use 250k Pots?

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: stag mag

Do you use 250k Pots?

Yes. Can't make the singles sound right with 500K. I admit it's a compromise.

 

[Harhash]

Re: stag mag

It's getting tricky!

I've found something that may suite you, an English humbucker called "The Brassknuckle", built with tele-like bobbins and could be ordered in trembucker spacing.

You can listen to the demo here:

http://oilcitypickups.co.uk/wrandknuckle.html

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: stag mag

Yes. Can't make the singles sound right with 500K. I admit it's a compromise.

You can use 500k pots. Just wire in an extra 47o to 510 kohm resistor for the singles so that they end up with roughly 250k resistance.
I did it with a sing/hum tele and it worked great.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: stag mag

I have to disagree somewhat with what Edgecrusher said...

The StagMag in humbucker mode is anything but "thin" and lacking in mids. In fact, in humbucker mode it is very strong in mids and one of the biggest complaints about it is the thick, heavy tone. This can easily be overcome by wiring it in parallel. This will give you the tight crunch you're looking for in a humbucker and the Hendrix single coil sound when split and paired with your middle pup.

When split, the StagMag has a very convincing single coil sound (because it IS a single coil).

I think it will do what you want if you use a 500k vol pot and do as Gibson175 suggested with the resistors in series with the single coil pups in the middle and neck positions.

I have some experience with the StagMag in both the neck and bridge positions and have been using it in a couple of my guitars for the past 7 or 8 years. Right now it is in the bridge of one of my HSH guitars...a really great sounding and versatile pup. I have it wired series in humbucker mode and it splits to the coil next to the bridge.

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: stag mag

@guitardoc... How nicely would you say it plays with single coils? I mean, do you find there is a smooth transition when you switch from the stagmag in humbucking mode to one of the other pickups? I need the bridge 'bucker for rock rhythm; but 85% of my lead playing is neck single (I like articulation; I have NO use for a neck humbucker). One of my issues right now is that the transition between the bridge pickup and the others is too jarring; you basically need to re-eq the amp. In the bridge I want a humbucker's beef but really I want more treble than a typical humbucker. All this, and I want genuine single-coil sound when split. Maybe I'm asking too much.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: stag mag

One of my issues right now is that the transition between the bridge pickup and the others is too jarring

thats always an issue when mixing hums and sings unless you match them carefully by using cool buckers and overwound singles. Even then, its quite a change. You often literally have to re-eq the amp every time you switch pickups. Sometimes going for versatility on the axe just gets you a hodge podge of "almost there' sounds and compromizing on the killer sounds.
HAve you considered two axes?

 

[2ndhandband]

Re: stag mag

Re-eqing is exactly what I'm doing right now... I'm running an Engl E580 preamp and switching settings every time I change pickups. This is for one thing a tremendous PITA, and secondly requires me to take this expensive programmable preamp that they don't make anymore on the road.

As for multiple axes... yeah, I've thought about it but there are problems. One is that I want a humbucker at the bridge about 80% of the time, and I NEVER like the sound of a neck humbucker. OK, that's not true... I like it when Steve Morse gets that sound. I just don't like it coming out of my amp. Plus it's very difficult to find a triple single-coil guitar with a Floyd and 24 frets, both of which I'm kind of a stickler about. The big thing tho, is the sounds. I don't like a single-coil in the bridge for most of my playing (I do want it for my Tuesday night blues gig and some of the stuff in my Purple tribute set), and I don't want a humbucker at the neck ever. One thing I do need is the combined bridge/middle sound... I use that one all the time. I'm not satisfied with the version of that I get with a standard split humbucker.

Essentially (and you guys have helped me define it a bit better via your comments, thanks) what I need is a pickup with humbucker beef that is a nice tonal match for my Antiquities (which are the best damn strat pickups I have ever tried, hands-down) and sounds like the real thing when split. Once again, I may be whistling past the graveyard.

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: stag mag

When split, the StagMag has a very convincing single coil sound (because it IS a single coil)

Sure it technically is a single coil when split... but that doesn't mean it'll sound close a real strat pickup though. The stagmag uses humbucker bobbins which are about half the height of a strat bobbin. The only things they have in common really are the rod magnets and the magnet stagger. It doesn't even use 42 gauge wire. A stagmag should read about 16.2k according to SD's site. That's roughly 8.1k per bobbin. It is not physically possible to fit that many turns of 42 on a standard humbucker bobbin. That means that it has to use 43 or possibly even 44 gauge wire. That leaves very little that they have in common materials wise. I have no personal experience with the stagmag but I honestly don't see how it could sound close to a true strat pickup considering that they have almost nothing in common...

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: stag mag

I have no personal experience with the stagmag but I honestly don't see how it could sound close to a true strat pickup considering that they have almost nothing in common...

Well, I DO have personal experience with the StagMag. And it does sound and respond like a Strat pup.

AND I do understand your technical issues that make you think that it won't sound like a true Strat single coil pup. But your argument that the split StagMag would be 8.1k and therefore would require 43 or 44 gauge wire, so therefore it would have very little in common with a Strat single coil is really quite silly. For one thing, true Strat single coil pups can run anywhere between 4.3k (SLS-1) to 16.4k (SSL-3). The split SM fits comfortably in the middle.

Is a StagMag the same height as a Strat single? = No
Does the StagMag have magnets for pole pieces? = Yes
Does it have wire windings around the poles? = yes
Does a split SM have similar resistance to a Strat single? = yes
Does a split SM have similar mV output to a Strat single? = Probably, or maybe even less. (389 mV in full humbucker mode = 195mV split. I don't have the output measurements for Strat pups, but they are probably higher than this).

The split SM has more in common (technically) with a single coil than with any other pup. It SOUNDS more like a single coil than any other pup. It feels and responds more like a single coil than any other pup.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.......

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: stag mag

we will just have to agree to disagree... I think the stagmag split is a piss poor example of strat tone. Single coil tone sure.. strat... no.

So quacks like a duck? not quite...

but for some maybe its close enough

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: stag mag

Well, I DO have personal experience with the StagMag. And it does sound and respond like a Strat pup.

AND I do understand your technical issues that make you think that it won't sound like a true Strat single coil pup. But your argument that the split StagMag would be 8.1k and therefore would require 43 or 44 gauge wire, so therefore it would have very little in common with a Strat single coil is really quite silly. For one thing, true Strat single coil pups can run anywhere between 4.3k (SLS-1) to 16.4k (SSL-3). The split SM fits comfortably in the middle.

Is a StagMag the same height as a Strat single? = No
Does the StagMag have magnets for pole pieces? = Yes
Does it have wire windings around the poles? = yes
Does a split SM have similar resistance to a Strat single? = yes
Does a split SM have similar mV output to a Strat single? = Probably, or maybe even less. (389 mV in full humbucker mode = 195mV split. I don't have the output measurements for Strat pups, but they are probably higher than this).

The split SM has more in common (technically) with a single coil than with any other pup. It SOUNDS more like a single coil than any other pup. It feels and responds more like a single coil than any other pup.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.......

Replace the rod magnets with slugs and fillister screws then put a bar magnet in it and you have nothing more than a run of the mill humbucker... the only thing that it has in common with a strat pickup is the rod magnets... different wire gauges, coil height, scatter wound vs machine wound... also mv has no bearing on the tone of the pickup. You can have two pickups with similar mv readings that sound completely different.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: stag mag

Replace the rod magnets with slugs and fillister screws then put a bar magnet in it and you have nothing more than a run of the mill humbucker... the only thing that it has in common with a strat pickup is the rod magnets

Well, that's about the silliest argument I've ever seen.

... different wire gauges, coil height, scatter wound vs machine wound

I never new that all Strat single coil pups have the same gauge wire and the same type of wind. Thanks for sharing that with me. I'm not opposed to learning new things.

... also mv has no bearing on the tone of the pickup. You can have two pickups with similar mv readings that sound completely different.

I have no idea where this came from or why you brought it up. I don't recall anyone ever saying that there was any relationship between mV and tone. My only reference to mV had to do with output (resistance is not an output measurement, although there is some connection), and how the output of a split SM is similar (note: I said "similar") to a single coil.

The point of my last post was to show that a SPLIT StagMag has more in common with a Strat single coil than not. In fact it has more in common with a Strat single coil than with any other type of pup (humbucker, mini, P-90, Strat or Tele single coil).


Look, we can go back and forth nit picking about this or that for the rest of our lives, but my only purpose was to answer the OP's original questions about the StagMag..."What I need is tight metal humbucker crunch AND Blackmore/Hendrix single coil in the bridge position from the same guitar. Is the stag mag going to do the job?"

Is the SM the BEST metal pup in the world? No. Of course not! But that's not what the OP is looking for.

Will the split SM sound EXACTLY like a '57 Strat bridge pup? No. Of course not! (I know it doesn't because I have a '57 Strat. I have a half dozen other Strats as well, and I can tell you that the split SM does not sound exactly like any of them). But, again, this is not what the OP is looking for.

He has one guitar that he wants to put a bridge pup in which will allow him to do tight metal humbucker crunch AND single coil sounds. He wants to know if the SM will do the job. Well, I personally think that there is no other pup than the SM that will come close to doing it as well as the SM. It is very "tight" in humbucker mode when wired in parallel and can handle overdrive and distortion. And when split, it sounds more like a Strat than anything else.

So, basically, will the SM fill the OP's needs?

If not, do you have any constructive recommendations to help him? (Or do you just want to theorize about a pup you've never played before and go into your own little rant about how it ISN'T a Strat pup and how I don't know what I'm talking about?!)

 

[firebirdguy72]

Re: stag mag

I never said all strat pickups were the same. The tone he's looking for when split is more of a vintage style strat pickup... and MANY aftermarket vintage style strat pickups use 42, are scatter wound and all obviously have the same height of the bobbin. Or at least very close. Sure other pickups use different gauges (think SSL5) but those pickups have no context here because that's NOT the tone he's looking for. You missed the point about what I said about mV readings... it's probably because of my wording... but what I meant was that just because it has a similar mV output to a regular single doesn't mean anything really. He wants strat tone. Not strat output... and that just because it has a similar mV output doesn't necessarily mean it'll have the tone He's looking for...sure maybe the stagmag does do the single coil thing well... and maybe it'll be perfect for him. I was just voicing my concerns over the fact that they are built completely different. With different materials and winds than a traditional single coil. Is that such a bad thing?