Strat Wiring Project!

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

The setup I want isnt really all that complicated IMO. If I was able to figure out a wiring diagram for it then it cant be. And I dont want a guitar that can do it all for the sake of it. I want a guitar I can jam with but still be able to have somewhat of a single coil sound. I heard the jb splits pretty well in the bridge as does the stag mag in the neck. I dont want to just drop my strat's single coil sound and go dual hb so Im trying to do the next best thing.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

The setup I want isnt really all that complicated IMO. If I was able to figure out a wiring diagram for it then it cant be. And I dont want a guitar that can do it all for the sake of it. I want a guitar I can jam with but still be able to have somewhat of a single coil sound. I heard the jb splits pretty well in the bridge as does the stag mag in the neck. I dont want to just drop my strat's single coil sound and go dual hb so Im trying to do the next best thing.

Yeah, I like how the JB splits. But I'm a JB fan. We're not trying to ridicule or correct you, or at least I'm not. Sorry if it sounds that way. I just want you to get a good setup so that you don't have to go through the frustration of fixing and reconfiguring things. I've been there, done that, and it's not fun, and not cheap either.

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

*EDIT*
Im starting to think I cant have the Red and white wires from my HB's going to the same place huh.
*EDIT*

Ok so i think I figured out how push pull switches work. This is what I think will be an easier way to do it:

Push / Pull selection 1:

1: Neck Humbucker Unsplit
2: Neck Humbucker Unsplit
3: Both Humbuckers Unsplit
4: Bridge Humbucker Unsplit
5: Bridge Humbucker Unsplit


Push / Pull selection 2:

1: Neck Humbucker Split
2: Neck Humbucker Split and Middle Single Coil
3: Both Humbuckers Split and Middle Single Coil
4: Bridge Humbucker Split and Middle Single Coil
5: Bridge Humbucker Split

As you can see it will basically switch from a dual HB to a triple Single coil with a single push pull pot. That seems easy enough as far as switching during a performance and not being confused goes. I opened up my strat and messed around to see how the switch operates so thats how I came up with my wirings. Id appreciate it if you could find anything I might have missed.

Also the last thing i need to know about is the pots. Like I said Im gonna have a 500k push pull pot and a 500k normal pot being shipped to me. The other pots already in my strat are all 250K. Should I get another 500k one or is there a way to mix and match? Which pot should go where? Thanks!

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

The other pots already in my strat are all 250K. Should I get another 500k one or is there a way to mix and match? Which pot should go where? Thanks!

First, I would suggest, based on your schematic, that you don't yet know how they work. First, let's number the pins on a DPDT, starting in the top left. Upper left is pin 1, upper right is pin 2, left middle is pin 3, right middle is pin 4, left bottom is pin 5, right bottom is pin 6. Notice that in the schematic, pin 3 is where the humbucker white and red are soldered.

Notice that a DPDT is like two SPDT switches: pins 1, 3, 5 are their own switch, and are isolated from the switch made up of pins 2, 4, 6.

Normally they would be soldered together by themselves for traditional humbucker sound. With the pot NOT pulled out, those two are not in a circuit with anything, hence it's as if they are soldered together. When the pot is pulled out, they're in contact with the ground on pin 1, and they are split. Based on this, and the fact that the DPDT acts as two isolated SPDTs, you could split both humbuckers at the same time with one DPDT push/pull, but personally I prefer separate controls.

Here's a good thing to look at:
See this schematic.
This is how my ESP is now wired.

So for switching your middle pickup on and off, this is why I recommended the SPDT switch. You wire the hot output of the pickup to the middle (pin 2, since top is 1, middle is 2, bottom is 3). Then either pin 1 or 3 can be soldered to the 5-way switch. This would mean that the toggle would work only in up or down (based on whichever pin you picked): back to center on the toggle switch would shut off the pickup since pin 2 isn't connected to pin 1 or 3 in the middle.

This could lead to interesting wiring options. For example, if you prefer the pickup off more than you prefer it on, you could wire the pickup to pin 1 and the output to pin 2 on the 5-way switch: then it would only work in up, with the other two positions (center and down) not working.

REMEMBER: DPDT's on push/pulls are different. I didn't know this. See the picture below.

Basically, a push/pull pot like the one above is considered an ON/ON. Two switch positions. The SPDT I described is on/off/on.

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

I dont understand how my push pull switch wouldnt split the humbuckers AND turn on the middle pickup when pulled out and then unsplit them AND shut off the middle when pushed in. The only thing I can think of is that the red and white wires for each HB are in the same place.

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

REMEMBER: DPDT's on push/pulls are different. I didn't know this. See the picture below.

Basically, a push/pull pot like the one above is considered an ON/ON. Two switch positions. The SPDT I described is on/off/on.

Yeah thats how I figured they worked and according to my drawing it looks like it would do what I want. The only thing like I said is the red and whites touching from each HB. Wouldnt that like cross contaminate or something lol?

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Yeah thats how I figured they worked and according to my drawing it looks like it would do what I want. The only thing like I said is the red and whites touching from each HB. Wouldnt that like cross contaminate or something lol?

What is it you want? Tell me how you want the control(s) to be arranged. The other time it didn't make much sense to me. I apologize.

As for the DPDT push-pulls, both sides should be their own SPDT on/on switch, so you should be just fine. If what you need is middle....

AHHHHH, I think I understand now: when you go to split you want both pickups to be split + middle, but when not split you want to middle OFF. I have an idea:

Wire neck white+red to be split on the left side of the volume push-pull. On the other side, put the output of middle humbucker to middle of right side of vol push-pull, with the pin above it on that side going to the 5-way switch.

Hold on, let me make you a new schematic...

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Diagram 2

This way you will have middle on any time neck is split. However, this will let you split the bridge independently. Now you can switch to a Super Strat by pulling the volume, and a Strat by pulling both.

Gotta love GIMP auto-crop

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Yeah but I was trying to keep two tones. So I guess you cant have the red and whites from both humbuckers going to the same place?

BTW I appreciate all the help so far man!

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Yeah but I was trying to keep two tones. So I guess you cant have the red and whites from both humbuckers going to the same place?
BTW I appreciate all the help so far man!

I wouldn't do that. I would be worried about the signals combining. I mean, you could have one push-pull split two humbuckers like that, but the red and whites are separated by pickup: the ones from the neck pickup go to the left side of the DPDT, the ones from the bridge go to the right side of the DPDT, etc. Trust me, I think this setup I just showed you would be better in the long run. You might need to do the "super strat" thing, i.e. run neck split + middle + bridge not split, so that when solo time comes you can switch to bridge only and not have to push the tone knob back down, etc.

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

This is my last try for the day lol. One push pull splits my HB's and the other turn my middle on and off. It provides even more options than before but its a bit more complicated with two switches and all. What do you think?

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

This is my last try for the day lol. One push pull splits my HB's and the other turn my middle on and off. It provides even more options than before but its a bit more complicated with two switches and all. What do you think?

More options than before? Well, I don't know about that ...
As for how it looks, it seems fine, but what's that other pot towards the bottom? All you should need is two pots unless you prefer independent volume and tone knobs, etc, which is (in my opinion) too much of a pain to wire with the way you have things....

Also, the way you have the middle wired and that lower pot wired is so strange. First, the black wires tell me you want the middle pickup enabled when it's NOT pulled out (i.e. pull out to shut it off). That makes sense. But then you have that other pot for when it's out, what does that pot do? It's as if it looks like a volume for the middle, but when the other pot is pulled out it will be disabled anyways.

No offense but my brain hurts now LOL. I say look at some of the stuff at the seymour duncan website under wiring diagrams here.

The basic idea is that tones go to the 5-way right before they are output. However, if you run a master volume and master tone like I personally prefer, you run those after. But anyways, that's how you determine the order of items in the circuit. A volume after the 5-way affects all volume, hence "master volume": it's right before the output jack. I prefer master volume for playing live because then I can do dramatic volume swells, etc.

Same with master tone. Tone only shunts some of the sound to ground, as I understand it. The capacitor determines what frequencies go to ground (i.e. get cut).

The 5-way is used as a switch to pick what sources are being output, and likewise a 3-way can be used the same way. In your case you want a 5-way because of how many pickups you have.

The bottom line, however, is that you need to put a lot of thought into this diagram before you commit to it. The more complex the controls of the guitar are, the more of a mental challenge it will be when playing, and therefore the more likely it will be for you to make a mistake. I did that one morning in church: I had the octave drop set on my pedal board and forgot about it. When I went to play a ripping intro to a song, it was one octave down. I quickly slapped the expression pedal back up to shut that off. Luckily it sounded like I "intended" to do it.

So I would recommend controls that are easy for you to understand. One volume, one tone, push pull. Let me make you another diagram.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Here's a better one. Blue is bare wire grounds. Otherwise, this will give you vol knob as the pull to split both humbuckers. The tone will shut off the middle when pulled. Of course these knobs work while pulled, in case you're wondering. This is what I recommend: it's easy enough to understand while playing live. One is the "stratocaster mode" switch, the other is to shut off middle. So Les Paul while tone is pulled out and volume is in, stratocaster mode is volume out and tone in, both in give you your normal guitar.

EDIT: I'm starting to wonder why the colors seem to compress after i save them...

 

[LJ King]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

My two cents.

I think you have the gist of splitting both pickups. It does require two poles of a switch.

To accomplish the switching to use either 1) two humbuckers as neck, both, bridge AND 2) three pickups (split or otherwise) in a Strat 5-way arrangement will require another two poles of a switch. These extra two poles need to reconfigure what the pickup switch is selecting.

Like this schematic.

Note: the middle pickup does not have to be grounded when unused. In this diagram the "mode" switch is shown in the "strat" position.

So, you have two options. Go for the DPDT push/pull pots, wire one as the split function and the other as the selector reconfigurator (is that a word?)

Or go back to the original desire - a single switch to decide switching between two humbuckers in a "Les Paul" fashion OR splitting the humbuckers and including a middle pickup with Strat type switching.

The original desire would require a 4-pole double throw switch to modify the guitar. These are available in a mini-toggle type or rotary type although I do not know if a rotary type with the proper knurling exists so that the stock knob can be used. Replace one of the tone controls and convert the remaining tone control into a master. The other two poles of the switch would be wired as the split function which you already know how to do.

Ok, end of two cents.

Good luck.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

My two cents. I think you have the gist of splitting both pickups. It does require two poles of a switch. To accomplish the switching to use either 1) two humbuckers as neck, both, bridge AND 2) three pickups (split or otherwise) in a Strat 5-way arrangement will require another two poles of a switch. These extra two poles need to reconfigure what the pickup switch is selecting. Like this schematic. Note: the middle pickup does not have to be grounded when unused. In this diagram the "mode" switch is shown in the "strat" position. So, you have two options. Go for the DPDT push/pull pots, wire one as the split function and the other as the selector reconfigurator (is that a word?) Or go back to the original desire - a single switch to decide switching between two humbuckers in a "Les Paul" fashion OR splitting the humbuckers and including a middle pickup with Strat type switching. The original desire would require a 4-pole double throw switch to modify the guitar. These are available in a mini-toggle type or rotary type although I do not know if a rotary type with the proper knurling exists so that the stock knob can be used. Replace one of the tone controls and convert the remaining tone control into a master. The other two poles of the switch would be wired as the split function which you already know how to do. Ok, end of two cents. Good luck.

Good idea, if he wants to use one switch to make it switch from les paul mode to strat mode. Granted, it's up to him really. I'm not making another wiring diagram lol my brain hurts.

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Sure, there's a way to make a guitar that's infinitely changeable. But if the person is wanting that, by that time I'd be suggesting they get a laptop and a Variax guitar. Funny though, those usually still don't sound 100% like their originals.

I guess one could wire a guitar with four stagmags and then put in a ton of switches. In theory you could do the QPDT switch for splitting them all simultaneously, then install a 7-way switch. But like I said before, eventually the one doing the wiring job will go insane lol.

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

The tone and volume pots are wired exactly like my 3 single coil standard strat is so they would work the same way it does now. I figured that wouldnt be a problem. But thanks for all the help I think I got things now.

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

No one's making fun of you. Everyone is trying to help... some are providing you the schematics so you can figure out for yourself that you WILL outgrow the desire to have an ALL-IN-ONE strat.... others are trying to save you the mental anguish by TELLING you that you will outgrow it....

To answer the question you repeated earlier, yes... having both HB's red and white wires on the same side of the pot will result in both HB's being on when ONE is selected... I learned the hard way when I did that with the Spin-A-Split mod....

I understand you strat came with 1 VOL and 2 Tones, but when you start a fancy sceme like this, that becomes more dificult to retain, and frankly has NO benefit. As you are already complicating it from factory design, you also have to remember to roll the tone to the appropriate setting for each configuration. If you don't need to roll the tone, then you don't need the tone in the first place.

Anytime you do ANYTHING that adds a function to an existing setup, you are, in fact, COMPLICATING the setup.... That is, there is more involved with it now than there was before.

I'm not sure for you, but I have been playing for 16 years, and need focus when I play leads, or solos.... If I have to stop and look down and my guitar and remember which knob needs to be in/out and where each of my tone knobs need to be, and where the 5-way needs to be, the solo is halfway finished and I'm not into the groove...

The bridge HB, I can understand playing full for that crucnh.... and being able to split it so you can play it with the middle for that Strat Quack, I can understand... but I have NEVER played the bridge HB split by itself.... I hardly ever play the middle by itself, save for the few times I mess around with an acoustic simulator which are few and far between and those aren't missed.... The REAL delicacy comes with the neck HB... being able to split it for the sake of playing a neck single coil, and for the sake of combining it with the middle for the infamous 2nd position strat sound....

I hope you get this thing figured out the way you want it and you become intimately familiar with it so you can use it... I'm just trying to get you to consider the practicality of what you are trying to accomplish. Seems like alot of trouble to end up with a guitar that probably won't do half of it's intended design close enough to satisfy you...

In the end, I went back to a simple setup because the STRAT sound was comprimised tooooooo much... and the HB sounds werent THAT convincing either.....

But food for thought.... since you are determined to get this going, take one of you knobs and make it a volume that controls ONLY the middle pup.....

VOL 1 - controls neck and bridge when selected respectively
VOL 2 - controls middle
Tone 1 - master tone

that way, you can tame the middle pup when you combine it with either the bridge or neck pup, since it significantly overpowers them.....

Good Luck,
Allen

 

[Robert Delahunt]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

No one's making fun of you. Everyone is trying to help... some are providing you the schematics so you can figure out for yourself that you WILL outgrow the desire to have an ALL-IN-ONE strat.... others are trying to save you the mental anguish by TELLING you that you will outgrow it.... Any time you do ANYTHING that adds a function to an existing setup, you are, in fact, COMPLICATING the setup.... That is, there is more involved with it now than there was before.

True. That's why my preference is to only wire humbucker splits as push pulls, and only one pickup per knob. I prefer a very easy to understand, clean controls setup so that I can do what I do. In my opinion, he's trying to do three distinct setups, which isn't easy at all.

Maybe if he could tolerate a Rotary Switch, he could do something like:

1) Neck HB
2) Neck split + middle (strat position #2)
3) Neck HB + Bridge HB (Les Paul middle position)
4) Neck split + middle + Bridge split (strat middle position)
5) Middle + Bridge split (strat position #4)
6) Bridge HB

But it would take getting used to a rotary switch rather than a 3 or 5-way toggle.

 

[StratMatt22]

Re: Strat Wiring Project!

Im not really planning on doing that much switching when playing live. This is so I have a guitar that can get some other sounds when Im at home just messing around. I dont have loads of cash to go buy another guitar just so I can have some humbuckers. Ill rarely, if ever, use the middle pickup live anyway, so controlling it with a push pull is easy enough for me. One P/P splits my HB's, one shuts off my middle, and my 5-way works like a standard strat 5-way as do my tone knobs.


I have been playing guitar for 8 years now and performing live for almost 4 and I have never had a switching problem. Its not like Im gonna use every single option on every single song let alone every set. I want a guitar with HB for playing live but I dont want to completely compromise my strat's ability. Having this pickup setup is no different than having a huge pedal board and a huge rack setup which I do not. Controling all those effects at once is pretty tough especially when you have to look down and switch all the time, You know breaking your concentration and searching to make sure all the right lights are on. So of course my strat will be more complicated but thats why its MY instrument and Ill learn how to use it. In a sense it will be two seperate guitars as I plan on using only the humbuckers during a set because this guitar is replacing my Ibanez as73. I dont plan on useing another option for a song unless I practice before hand to make sure it is a simple enough switch. That way, when i return to my house and I want to play some of my favorites like SRV and Hendrix I wont have 2 straight humbucker guitars. It will function exactly like how my Strat is now because except for the push / pull pots that last diagram I made is exactly the same as how my strat is wired now.

So maybe when Im 50 and have money to blow on tons of guitar gear like so many of the people here do, Ill simplify things from guitar to guitar. Until then I really think this will work out fine.