Stratocaster sustain question

[greekdude]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

+1 to this.

I have a trem guitar with minor tuning issues and I can even hear the string that always goes out of tune binding at the nut. I do not know of any good techs here in Greece yet where I can bring it, but one day it will get dealt with.

I had good experiences with NS guitars @Giannena (a guy in my home town) , KeeperOS had great experiences with some shop in downtown athens : Kourbis. You might want to contact them. I had somewhat good experiences with Ntinos, a guy from "woodstock" studio in Mesogeion ave. That's all I know man.

 

[stef89]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

Again, this could be a side effect. Very high pickups are very bright. They don't make bright up on their own, "bright" means picking up a lot of high overtones that decay faster. So there is still a question of whether the actual sustain in the base tones is really different.

Pardon me. But I dont understand what you mean by base tone is different, what base tone?

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I had good experiences with NS guitars @Giannena (a guy in my home town) , KeeperOS had great experiences with some shop in downtown athens : Kourbis. You might want to contact them. I had somewhat good experiences with Ntinos, a guy from "woodstock" studio in Mesogeion ave. That's all I know man.

Thanks man, I will check out Kourbis next time I'm in Athens and go from there!

 

[uOpt]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

Pardon me. But I dont understand what you mean by base tone is different, what base tone?

I wrote it above. I mean the base overtones, not the bright ones.

That is why I recommend that you compare guitars by putting a low pass filter at 1 kHz or whereabouts to see whether the lower frequencies are actually shorter lived.

 

[DreX]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I agree with the idea that a Strat's higher frequencies give it a sense of lesser sustain, it's just that when you start out with Strats, that becomes your "normal".

I've always felt that humbuckers are more of an instant gratification pickup, the lack of highs and softer attack help mask imperfect fretting, the series wiring is hotter and emphasis on the fundamental and lower harmonics make it sound like the guitar sustains a lot longer, overdrive is thick and crunchy, and less EQ hassles, but then I always feel like I lose a lot of my musical vocabulary when I use them. That seems to be one of the nice thing about unpotted covered humbuckers IMO, I feel like they get some of that talking voice quality back.

 

[stef89]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I wrote it above. I mean the base overtones, not the bright ones.

That is why I recommend that you compare guitars by putting a low pass filter at 1 kHz or whereabouts to see whether the lower frequencies are actually shorter lived.

This goes in the category of "Explain it like im 5" Record where, and with what software?

 

[stef89]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

The big sound stop wery fast but the bright after tone last longer. On my washburn the big tone last long and so does the after tone.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I agree with the idea that a Strat's higher frequencies give it a sense of lesser sustain, it's just that when you start out with Strats, that becomes your "normal".

I've always felt that humbuckers are more of an instant gratification pickup, the lack of highs and softer attack help mask imperfect fretting, the series wiring is hotter and emphasis on the fundamental and lower harmonics make it sound like the guitar sustains a lot longer, overdrive is thick and crunchy, and less EQ hassles, but then I always feel like I lose a lot of my musical vocabulary when I use them. That seems to be one of the nice thing about unpotted covered humbuckers IMO, I feel like they get some of that talking voice quality back.

Damn good description. If I had to have 1 guitar, it would have single coils because of the those dynamics. Requires more fiddling with the amp and guitar itself, but it's worth it.

 

[stef89]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

So I tested 2 Squire, 2 MIM fender, 2 AM strat , 1 Am tele. In comparison of string vibration, guitar resonation and sustain. I tested all the guitars acoustically.

Squire - The whole thing vibrates. Neck body strings long acoustically sustain.

MIM Fender Strat - Less vibration less string vibration and smaller acoustically sustain

AM strat (custom shop) - Most quiet acoustically sound and guitar vibration and string vibration. Wery long high pitched sustain.

Am standard strat - Same as custom shop

Am tele - same as both am strats.

So there you have it, this is what i experienced from playing the guitars in the store. Its normal for the american guitar to have less string vibration and "shorter" sustain, they have a high pitched sound wich lasts longer then the squire.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

So there you have it, this is what i experienced from playing the guitars in the store. Its normal for the american guitar to have less string vibration and "shorter" sustain, they have a high pitched sound wich lasts longer then the squire.

I don't think so. My AmStd Strat was particularly loud acoustically and the buyer sent a flood of thank you notes about how resonant it was. I hated the living guts out of it.

The real deal here is cross-check by exchanging necks, but it is a pain with floating trems and/if the neck angle.

 

[stef89]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I don't think so. My AmStd Strat was particularly loud acoustically and the buyer sent a flood of thank you notes about how resonant it was. I hated the living guts out of it.

The real deal here is cross-check by exchanging necks, but it is a pain with floating trems and/if the neck angle.

Well, atleast 3 am fenders sounded like mine do here at home. So I think theres nothing wrong with mine, im just not use to fenders

BTW I think the squire is great value for the price!

 

[DreX]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

Squire - The whole thing vibrates. Neck body strings long acoustically sustain.

BTW I think the squire is great value for the price!

I think what it really shows is that various vintage appointments, like steal instead of zinc, nitro instead of poly, quarter sized pots, vintage correct five way switchers, the country in which it's made, don't promise a more resonant instrument.

A caveat is that how an instrument sounds acoustically doesn't say much about how it will sound plugged in for at least two indisputable reasons 1) your ear receives different sonic information from the guitar than does the guitar's pickup 2) the frequency responsiveness of your ears are different than guitar pickups, which may serve to emphasize characteristics of the sound may or may not be as flattering as the plugged in sound. The best that can be said is that after hearing enough electric guitars plugged, and then unplugged, over a long period of time, a person can potentially predict how an unplugged guitar might sound plugged in, so long as other factors remain relatively constant.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I think what it really shows is that various vintage appointments, like steal instead of zinc, nitro instead of poly, quarter sized pots, vintage correct five way switchers, the country in which it's made, don't promise a more resonant instrument.

A caveat is that how an instrument sounds acoustically doesn't say much about how it will sound plugged in for at least two indisputable reasons 1) your ear receives different sonic information from the guitar than does the guitar's pickup 2) the frequency responsiveness of your ears are different than guitar pickups, which may serve to emphasize characteristics of the sound may or may not be as flattering as the plugged in sound. The best that can be said is that after hearing enough electric guitars plugged, and then unplugged, over a long period of time, a person can potentially predict how an unplugged guitar might sound plugged in, so long as other factors remain relatively constant.

The most important factor for a resonant instrument is good wood.

As for your second paragraph, well, I'm gonna have to agree to disagree.

 

[DreX]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

The most important factor for a resonant instrument is good wood.

It's a lot more complicated than good wood / bad wood:

Squire - The whole thing vibrates. Neck body strings long acoustically sustain.

In the pricey vintage and vintage correct instruments, the wood seemed to have originally been chosen for its availability to manufacturers in the 50's, and perhaps it's favorable grain appearance, first and foremost, but fast forward sixty years and wood that was chosen for it's availability and appearance is suddenly the "good wood", the most resonant, best sounding wood, never mind the fact that we can't even prove makes any audible difference at all.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

It's a lot more complicated than good wood / bad wood:



In the pricey vintage and vintage correct instruments, the wood seemed to have originally been chosen for its availability to manufacturers in the 50's, and perhaps it's favorable grain appearance, first and foremost, but fast forward sixty years and wood that was chosen for it's availability and appearance is suddenly the "good wood", the most resonant, best sounding wood, never mind the fact that we can't even prove makes any audible difference at all.

Let me rephrase: the most important factor for a resonant instrument is good wood.

Of course there are other factors, but the most important one is good wood. You can use the "best" materials, use the "best" strings, and get a pro setup on any guitar but if the wood used is a dud piece then you might as well toss the guitar in the trash. Period.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

Is it much louder acoustically?

The acoustic volume between them is roughly the same, the 66 might be slightly quieter, but not by much. The frequencies they give off are different. The 66 is a bit more even across the spectrum. All notes in chords are evenly audible. The 62 has some low end, a bit of scoop mids and reasonable hi-mids/highs, though not the twangy highs of a typical acoustic where you here the scratch of the pick over the notes in the chords. I can't say I've noticed a correlation between acoustic volume and sustain when plugged in. The pickups and the amp provide some of the bloom that affects the perception of sustain. I've replaced the pickups and wiring in the 66 3-4 times and there were some setups where it didn't seem to sustain as long. This thread will go on for 26 pages if we really dissect it all.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I believe resonance is reversely analogous to sustain. Energy consumed to move the molecules in the wood->air->ears is energy stolen from the strings. That's why massive guitars which enforce great inertia on the movement of wood/parts are often perceived as having more sustain.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I believe resonance is reversely analogous to sustain. Energy consumed to move the molecules in the wood->air->ears is energy stolen from the strings. That's why massive guitars which enforce great inertia on the movement of wood/parts are often perceived as having more sustain.

Yeah but they can still dampen less or more, internally using up energy inside the wood. Only a fraction of the energy moves air.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

I believe resonance is reversely analogous to sustain. Energy consumed to move the molecules in the wood->air->ears is energy stolen from the strings. That's why massive guitars which enforce great inertia on the movement of wood/parts are often perceived as having more sustain.

My mexi P bass is acoustically louder and more resonant than my USA G&L, but has a fraction of the sustain plugged in. I tend to believe this happens and I'm glad someone else agrees.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Stratocaster sustain question

Its a little more complex than that, but certainly any energy used to move the air isn't in the strings any more.

There are lots of complex energy transfers going on every microsecond between string/hardware/wood and back again. Sustain is about momentum and energy losses between materials mainly. The acoustic tone is mainly to do with the bodies ability to evenly 'resonate' the air. In such a case, the shape and the surface profile may have more to do with this than anything else.