String guage = speed

[sufferinrewind]

Re: String guage = speed

His Strat neck was in no danger of folding in. If you can put 13's on an acoustic, then any solidbody guitar can handle them without breaking a sweat.

Fender guitars are built like a tank. I had a set of 13s on my strat once, and the trem started to lift. I took them off immediately. I guess I didn't have enough springs in it or something for it to hold the tension.

I play 10s and I can play pretty fast. I play Gibson strings, and I find them to be really slick, and I like them. I don't think they're coated. I used to play D'Addario and Elixer, but these sound just as good, and play easier. From what I've heard, a lot of the faster players like to use 8s. Those would be too flimsy in my guitar especially, since 9s are pretty flimsy on standard tuning, and I tune down a half step.

 

[nuntius]

Re: String guage = speed

Big strings = worthwhile ONLY if you can handle them. I do 3 semitone bends on my E B G and D strings.. anything bigger than 10s and I hurt my hand. I have the finger strength to do straight runs easily enough on 11s and 12s (I play 25.5" strat style guitars) but it's the bending of strings that forces me to use 10s.

Re: picking is easier against thicker tension : well, to a point, yes. But, if you have a lot of difficulty picking quickly with 9s and 10s it probably means you're digging in too hard with your pick. You only need a small amount of pick and a small amount of force exerted to pluck the string. If you're pushing the strings well out of the way on lighter gaugues you're picking too hard. Using thicker gauges to compensate for heavy pick attack is kind of cheating IMO - you should be able to control your picking in relation to the guitar you're playing and the set up it has (within reason of course.. rubber bands tuned a few steps down would give everyone problems)



String guage on it's own is only one factor in speed.

What's more important is string tension. High levels of tension mean fatigue will set in faster (of course relative to your own hand condition), and you'll be more likely to damage your hand if you haven't warmed up properly etc.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: String guage = speed

Big strings = worthwhile ONLY if you can handle them. I do 3 semitone bends on my E B G and D strings.. anything bigger than 10s and I hurt my hand. I have the finger strength to do straight runs easily enough on 11s and 12s (I play 25.5" strat style guitars) but it's the bending of strings that forces me to use 10s.

Do bends with 11s and 12s long enough and you can do not only 3- but 4-semitone bends on them.

Re: picking is easier against thicker tension : well, to a point, yes. But, if you have a lot of difficulty picking quickly with 9s and 10s it probably means you're digging in too hard with your pick. You only need a small amount of pick and a small amount of force exerted to pluck the string.

True. Also for speed turn the pick a bit more at an angle to the string instead of perfectly parallel.

String guage on it's own is only one factor in speed.

What's more important is string tension. High levels of tension mean fatigue will set in faster (of course relative to your own hand condition), and you'll be more likely to damage your hand if you haven't warmed up properly etc.

Strictly speaking, yes, it's about tension. But the whole premise of the thread assumes standard tuning at concert pitch (except where otherwise indicated), which means the gauge can be a reliable indicator of tension and fatigue factor.

 

[Erlend_G]

Re: String guage = speed

I used 11-52 strings almost exclusively for several years. But one day i tried a set of 09-46'es, and i were hooked immedately. Ligther strings seems to be alot easier to play on, and for sticking to the subject, i also played alot faster on them.

 

[SpiderVenom]

Re: String guage = speed

True. Also for speed turn the pick a bit more at an angle to the string instead of perfectly parallel.

I do that, but only for the wound strings. I find not keeping parallel on the plain strings causes it to start becoming a bit messy and scratchy, at least for me.

And yeah, assume standard tuning at concert pitch - I wouldn't touch drop tuning with a barge pole

Anyway, I might give 11-49s a try. I've been playing with 10-46s for a while now (25.5 scale) and the plain strings just feel effortless to bend. May as well give 11's a go.

 

[Ocifer]

Re: String guage = speed

I just really like the sound of bigger strings. I've been moving up slowly. Starting with 9s, then 10s, and now I use EB Skinny Top Heavy Bottoms (10-52).

As far as speed, picking was never an issue when moving up. Bending became harder, but you adapt. I'm planning on switching to 11-52s. I figure I've already adjusted to the heavier bass strings, and I can adjust to bending the higher strings on an 11-52 set.

 

[Earwicker]

Re: String guage = speed

I just really like the sound of bigger strings.

Above regular 10s - say 11 - 52 - it gets a bit subjective. You get more punch and attack, if that's what you're after, but certainly with solid bodied guitars there's a case to be made for the more rounded sound of regular 10s.

As for superlight gauge - ie 9 - 42, I can't imagine anyone would prefer the sound of those over 10 - 46; it's a big improvement. Recent experiments with different gauges and combinations thereof have convinced me that super lights are only for people with lazy fingers or lazy ears or both! If you happen to be afflicted with the former, something like D'Addario EXL125s are a good compromise, where you have super light E, B and G, then regular light D, A, E.

A 0.032, 0.042'' bottom A and E is no use to anyone.

EW

 

[Ocifer]

Re: String guage = speed

Above regular 10s - say 11 - 52 - it gets a bit subjective. You get more punch and attack, if that's what you're after, but certainly with solid bodied guitars there's a case to be made for the more rounded sound of regular 10s.

EW

When it comes to guitar tone, the one thing that kills it the most (to me at least) is when guitars sound very shrill. Thicker strings = rounder tone, even with lower output or vintage pickups. I'll wait until new p'ups are in to make my choice, I think.

Just one question: on a stock nut that comes on most strats, are the slots big enough to accomodate 11s, or will I have to get the nut adjusted/recut?

EDIT: Maybe it's my hero worship of guys like SRV and Hendrix who used 13s and 11s, respectively. Especially in the case of SRV, I'd have to say that his amazing depth in his clean tones came from the fact that he used thicker strings, with lower output pickups. I remember reading somewhere that contrary to popular belief, he was really into lower output p'ups with more treble because he used those telephone wire-sized strings.

 

[nuntius]

Re: String guage = speed

Do bends with 11s and 12s long enough and you can do not only 3- but 4-semitone bends on them.

With my style, I still think I'd hurt myself. When I'm playing quicker stuff, I keep my thumb at the back of the neck (in the middle, almost like a classical player would). So, bending a string at the end of a run is harder than if you were doing it the traditional blues/rock way of having your thumb hooked round.

With my thumb hooked round I can already do fine on 11s, and probably 12s too (not tried recently) but when my thumb is on the back of the neck anything more than 10s literally is just too much tension for me to control it easily enough.

(when not doing quicker stuff I do hook my thumb for bends... it's just having my thumb at the back of the neck gives for greater reach and mobility during those "shreddy" moments)

Personally I'd always put control before any gains in tone. Then again, I'm already happy with the tone of my guitars with 10s

 

[SpiderVenom]

Re: String guage = speed

With my style, I still think I'd hurt myself. When I'm playing quicker stuff, I keep my thumb at the back of the neck (in the middle, almost like a classical player would). So, bending a string at the end of a run is harder than if you were doing it the traditional blues/rock way of having your thumb hooked round.

I follow the Troy Stetina/John Petrucci way. Play in classical postion, and just switch to the thumb over the neck for bends. It's not hard, even in fast pieces, to switch back and forward - it's just getting the knack of sliding between the hand positions without tension.

 

[Earwicker]

Re: String guage = speed

Just one question: on a stock nut that comes on most strats, are the slots big enough to accomodate 11s, or will I have to get the nut adjusted/recut?

I'm asking the same question of my PRS... I'm just playing out the 9s on it (only using 9s at the mo 'cause it's factory set-up for the twerpy little varmints), and there's a set of D'Addario EXL110s waiting in the wings for the weekend... they'll probably snag a bit at first, but my guess is they'll squeeze in and subsequently wear in without any surgery.

I'll keep you posted...!

I imagine a bit of minor surgery would be required to accommodate 11s though; there's no way a 52 gauge E will fit in the nut-slot as it ships from the factory.

EW

 

[ErikH]

Re: String guage = speed

Above regular 10s - say 11 - 52 - it gets a bit subjective. You get more punch and attack, if that's what you're after, but certainly with solid bodied guitars there's a case to be made for the more rounded sound of regular 10s.

As for superlight gauge - ie 9 - 42, I can't imagine anyone would prefer the sound of those over 10 - 46; it's a big improvement. Recent experiments with different gauges and combinations thereof have convinced me that super lights are only for people with lazy fingers or lazy ears or both! If you happen to be afflicted with the former, something like D'Addario EXL125s are a good compromise, where you have super light E, B and G, then regular light D, A, E.

A 0.032, 0.042'' bottom A and E is no use to anyone.

EW

This is coming across as very biased. Not everyone likes 10-46 and not all guitars sound right to the player with 10-46. I have 2 guitars that sound better with 9-42 than they do with 10-46. Don't know why, but that's just how it is with them. My other 2 electrics have 10-46 on them.

Saying "super lights are only for people with lazy fingers or lazy ears or both!" is just plain ignorant.

 

[Earwicker]

Re: String guage = speed

Saying "super lights are only for people with lazy fingers or lazy ears or both!" is just plain ignorant.

Sorry mate, had a bad day...!

EW

 

[ibanezrocks]

Re: String guage = speed

I prefer 11's for playing fast, because the increase in tension means they don't move side to side as much as lighter strings, making it easier for the picking hand, however I do see how at the same time it makes it harder for the fretting hand. I started on acoustic so I have no problem with 11's, but I understand how other people whos picking hand is faster than their fretting hand could play faster on lighter strings.

 

[ErikH]

Re: String guage = speed

Sorry mate, had a bad day...!

EW

I respect you for apologizing. Not many people would.

I saw that you mentioned your PRS has 9's on it. Have you tried 9-46? Those are a really nice compromise.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: String guage = speed

Just one question: on a stock nut that comes on most strats, are the slots big enough to accomodate 11s, or will I have to get the nut adjusted/recut?

Usually they will have to be opened up a bit. If you have an old style Wilkinson roller nut as fitted to the strat plus before the LSR then the only option you have is replacement as they were designed to accomodate only specific gauges.

 

[octavedoctor]

Re: String guage = speed

With my style, I still think I'd hurt myself. When I'm playing quicker stuff, I keep my thumb at the back of the neck (in the middle, almost like a classical player would). So, bending a string at the end of a run is harder than if you were doing it the traditional blues/rock way of having your thumb hooked round.

With my thumb hooked round I can already do fine on 11s, and probably 12s too (not tried recently) but when my thumb is on the back of the neck anything more than 10s literally is just too much tension for me to control it easily enough.

(when not doing quicker stuff I do hook my thumb for bends... it's just having my thumb at the back of the neck gives for greater reach and mobility during those "shreddy" moments)

Personally I'd always put control before any gains in tone. Then again, I'm already happy with the tone of my guitars with 10s

Well, I have a similar technique - I come from a classical guitar background - but I don't have any problems with 11s (although it's fair to say i'm not really a proper player like others here), but I have refretted all my guitars with fairly high profile frets (1.3 - 1.5mm) this gives much more leverage at low actions. If you have heavy strings on a vintage strat that's had more than a couple of fret skims then you'd probably run into problems with a classical style.

 

[Earwicker]

Re: String guage = speed

I saw that you mentioned your PRS has 9's on it. Have you tried 9-46? Those are a really nice compromise.

Yes, I have, and they are! (D'Addario EXL125s). The only "problem" is that it tends to make me lean into the lower strings more - the guitar (a soapbar II) has a powerful and punchy bottom end, and if you use regular light DAE with super light EBG it makes the guitar (and/or my playing!) bottom heavy. It sounds pretty cool that way, to be honest, but the perfectionist in me says the guitar should be more evenly voiced.

It'll sound well cool with 10 - 46s (what I'm used to apart from tonal considerations) I just hope I don't have to do too much setting up to accommodate them. I'm quite good at setting the intonation (I also play the violin, so I'm good at guessing how much to lengthen or shorten the string by) but I'm not keen on the idea of hacking away at the nut on me nice new guitar...!!


EW

 

[ErikH]

Re: String guage = speed

Yes, I have, and they are! (D'Addario EXL125s). The only "problem" is that it tends to make me lean into the lower strings more - the guitar (a soapbar II) has a powerful and punchy bottom end, and if you use regular light DAE with super light EBG it makes the guitar (and/or my playing!) bottom heavy. It sounds pretty cool that way, to be honest, but the perfectionist in me says the guitar should be more evenly voiced.

It'll sound well cool with 10 - 46s (what I'm used to apart from tonal considerations) I just hope I don't have to do too much setting up to accommodate them. I'm quite good at setting the intonation (I also play the violin, so I'm good at guessing how much to lengthen or shorten the string by) but I'm not keen on the idea of hacking away at the nut on me nice new guitar...!!


EW

I'm a Dean Markley guy myself. They've lasted the longest for me and kept their tone the longest. I rarely, if ever, break one anymore. Watch, I'll pick it up tonight and snap one now. :laugh2:

My homemade Frankenstrat is the one that is picky. She doesn't like 10-46 strings. It's either 9-40 or 9-42 on that one. My Strat sounds way better with 10's, and feels better to me too. The LP is a no-brainer, 10's in there too but I'd like to try some 9-46 on it and the Strat. It's been a while since I used them.

Changing from on gauge to another really hasn't been an issue for me. At first 10's were too much after years of playing 9's, then I switched slowly on the Strat. Didn't run in to any setup issues really. Maybe a slight action adjustment but that's it. Speed has never been an issue either gauge either (on topic...lol). It's just a matter of getting comfortable. You don't drive a Corvette 150 MPH the first time you get in one. Well, some people might.

I'm surprised your PRS gets bottom heavy with the P-90's. You'd think it wouldn't even though it's got a mahogany body.

 

[fab.regnaut]

Re: String guage = speed

I use to play with 10-52 in drop D and was very pleased with the ability to shred fast but the low string sounded too stiff and bass heavy for legato stuff so i changed for 10-46 and it is fine .
To sound good
1: don't use ultra light gauge
2: tune your neck properly so there is no fret buzz (unless you hit the string very hard) and your action is as low as possible
3: train your left hand and fingers to be strong to avoid pains in muscles

After it is a matter of style ; for example for brutal metal use heavy gauge cause all you want is power and you don't care about lead and subtilities , for jazz you don't bend so heavy gauge is better , but for shred and complex music you need a compromise cause you need your strings to let all nuances ring ( bend and legato so not too heavy , slide and speed so not too loose ,...)