String tension

[Clint 55]

I used a digital tension meter to read the tension of the same gauge string tuned the same on both the high and low e slots of my strat. The tensions were the same or nearly the same on all of my tests. I took several readings each of two 7s, two 9s, and two wound 18s. Apparently my theory about string length outside the scale increasing tension is wrong. :boggled: It must have something to do with "feel" why regular top heavy bot strings feel right on my strats.

 

[daenius]

Re: String tension

Wow interesting find!

I would say the tension must be the same to tune it to the same pitch for the same string gauge, but the difference really only comes out when you're bending. I find that you have to deflect the string a slight shorter distance to bend the pitch if the overall length is shorter, causing you to feel that it's lower tension.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Hmm. Thanks for that input. I might have to take some more measurements with that in mind.

I repeated the experiment on my Les Paul with an 11 in the E and G slots tuned the same. The 11 in the E slot kept coming up about 1.5% tighter than the G. Turns out I was wrong in the opposite direction. Longer overall length seems to be giving it more elasticity.

 

[Dave Locher]

Re: String tension

Kudos for going to the trouble of getting the tool and actually finding out, and double for posting the results.
I am surprised too.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Thanx

 

[dave74]

Re: String tension

It'll take more static-tension to bring a string up to pitch on a longer scale,,,,but the longer scale will grant more bending elasticity.
I run the same string sets (for a given tuning) on my 25.5" guitars that I do on my 25" Carvins for this very reason.
Most guys run larger gauges on a shorter scale because they're thinking in terms of static-tension, but then IMO the strings feel less bendable doing that.

 

[metalchurch79]

Re: String tension

That was a good read and got me thinking already this morning! Thanks for posting the results of your experiment, I really like reading stuff like that.

Wasn't there something about Hendrix and the reverse headstock/string tension/feel/tone thing that was a popular theory for a while?

Another thing to think of is the tension of strings on a headstock from the locking nut to the tuners, being the length is so short per string, and the regular vs reverse headstock....not really the same as what you're doing, but sort of the same concept...

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Thanks no prob. Yep, I thought a reverse headstock would have tighter bass strings and looser treble strings than a regular headstock because of the placement of the tuners but I guess not! The tension is about the same for varying nut to tuner lengths but longer nut to tuner length or string outside the scale gives more string to strech.

 

[AlexR]

Re: String tension

There will not be any tension difference. Otherwise you will have tuned to a different note.

Its more like a compliance difference, and thats something not captured by tension meters.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Sounds right. I don't have a guitar with a locking nut to test tho.

 

[gclub]

Re: String tension

Good sound! haha

gclub มือถือ

 

[Jacew]

Re: String tension

Hmm. Thanks for that input. I might have to take some more measurements with that in mind.

I repeated the experiment on my Les Paul with an 11 in the E and G slots tuned the same. The 11 in the E slot kept coming up about 1.5% tighter than the G. Turns out I was wrong in the opposite direction. Longer overall length seems to be giving it more elasticity.

Seems logical. There's longer lenght of wire when bending the string (downwards when fretting or especially sideways...), so there's more string to stretch -> less pull.

Scale lenght lessens tension as you'll less mass, you need to outplay by adding tension.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Yep

 

[Donkeyhospital]

Re: String tension:

Re: String tension:

I used a digital tension meter to read the tension of the same gauge string tuned the same on both the high and low e slots of my strat. The tensions were the same or nearly the same on all of my tests. I took several readings each of two 7s, two 9s, and two wound 18s. Apparently my theory about string length outside the scale increasing tension is wrong. :boggled: It must have something to do with "feel" why regular top heavy bot strings feel right on my strats.

The the frequency of a vibrating string (the pitch) depends on the length (nut to bridge), the tension and the weight of the string following the formula shown here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html

This formula shows that a reverse headstock has no effect on the tension needed to reach the desired pitch (the length from bridge to nut is the same and if the weight of the string is the same then the same tension is needed even if the tuner post was 2 feet beyond the nut.

You might think OK so if the tension is the same then it makes no difference but there is another aspect i.e. when you play a note or do a string bend then you will effectively be stretching the total string length between the bridge and the tuner post (not the nut) and now the effect of the total string length (excluding locking nuts) comes into play. If the whole string is longer it will feel lighter and easier to fret or bend a note. The same applies when you wrap a string over the stop tail rather than just passing it straight through.

So with the reverse headstock the balance and feel will change. The low E will feel slacker and the high E will feel tighter because you have switched round their total length (bridge to tuner post) so now the low E is longer in total and the high E is shorter.

Barrie (Elderwood Guitars) https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100021688920505

 

[texred]

Re: String tension

Yep

My brain hurts.
Dissonance = tension?

 

[texred]

Re: String tension

Sounds right. I don't have a guitar with a locking nut to test tho.

Ask Kurt.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Wat

 

[texred]

Re: String tension

Wat

Jokingggggg. Told you I was always talking to your avatar.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: String tension

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffin glue.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: String tension:

Re: String tension:

The the frequency of a vibrating string (the pitch) depends on the length (nut to bridge), the tension and the weight of the string following the formula shown here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Waves/string.html

This formula shows that a reverse headstock has no effect on the tension needed to reach the desired pitch (the length from bridge to nut is the same and if the weight of the string is the same then the same tension is needed even if the tuner post was 2 feet beyond the nut.

You might think OK so if the tension is the same then it makes no difference but there is another aspect i.e. when you play a note or do a string bend then you will effectively be stretching the total string length between the bridge and the tuner post (not the nut) and now the effect of the total string length (excluding locking nuts) comes into play. If the whole string is longer it will feel lighter and easier to fret or bend a note. The same applies when you wrap a string over the stop tail rather than just passing it straight through.

So with the reverse headstock the balance and feel will change. The low E will feel slacker and the high E will feel tighter because you have switched round their total length (bridge to tuner post) so now the low E is longer in total and the high E is shorter.

Barrie (Elderwood Guitars) https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100021688920505

That makes perfect sense. And extra length under tension in a string-through Tele (or in the trem block of a Strat) would help a bit to offset the higher tension due to their longer scale.

I wonder about the Les Paul tailpiece effect, though. When the strings are top wrapped or the tailpiece is high the feel is similarly slinky versus when the tail piece is decked. With top wrapping there's more string length under tension, and a change in feel makes sense. Yet when the tailpiece is raised the string length is actually a hair less than with it decked. If (as some argue) break angle has nothing to do with it, then why do the strings feel slinkier with the tailpiece high?