Studio LP pups

Re: Studio LP pups

Hmmm, if the original 498T wasn't hot enough for you, then putting the 59B in the bridge position probably isn't going to make you happy.

I used a Custom/Jazz combo in a LP Studio for a long time. Very solid set. The Custom has more than enough punch. If you liked the warmth of the A2 490R in the neck before, then I might suggest revisiting an A2 magnet. There are a few options from Duncan, but if you want one with a little more punch then the 490R, the PGn is a good place to start. The Custom/PG set should be a great set. I've never used that exact pair, but I did like the PGn and I loved the Custom in my Studio.

One thing that will open up the guitar and brighten it up a little could be new pots. Studios come stock with 300K pots... 500K do wonders for opening up the sound. You mentioned push/pulls were going to be installed... were they? If so, do you know what value?
 
Re: Studio LP pups

Hmmm, if the original 498T wasn't hot enough for you, then putting the 59B in the bridge position probably isn't going to make you happy.

I used a Custom/Jazz combo in a LP Studio for a long time. Very solid set. The Custom has more than enough punch. If you liked the warmth of the A2 490R in the neck before, then I might suggest revisiting an A2 magnet. There are a few options from Duncan, but if you want one with a little more punch then the 490R, the PGn is a good place to start. The Custom/PG set should be a great set. I've never used that exact pair, but I did like the PGn and I loved the Custom in my Studio.

One thing that will open up the guitar and brighten it up a little could be new pots. Studios come stock with 300K pots... 500K do wonders for opening up the sound. You mentioned push/pulls were going to be installed... were they? If so, do you know what value?

I am not sure of the value of the pots that were installed. I am taking my guitar in the shop to get my christmas gifts installed today, I will find out.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

I'll [Quote I will try to do what I can with what I have without dropping a lot of coin, Thanks for the responses.


This is my motto to live by.


The mag for the DD can be had at only one place I know of. You get one through the custom shop. Its a little hassle, cause MJ's really busy, but its worth it.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

In the bridge I am thinking that I want some muscle for good palm mute chunk, and also a stronger fatter lead tone. I could be thinking about this too much and not really have an idea of how to express myself properly.

You're doing okay, you need to think this stuff through. Don't apologize. Too many guys jump into this & buy PU's on the spur of the moment that turn out to be very poor fits for what they want (some choices are terrible). Some players get caught in the cycle of buying & selling (at a loss) and can spends hundreds of dollars in a quest for an elusive ideal tone. Better to make a calculated move or two, than to be like a waterbug, zig-zagging all over, scattering dollar bills behind you.

Here's what it boils down to: In HB guitars, neck PU's are usually 7,000 to 8,500 ohms to maintain brightness, clarity, & definition. When combined with 500K pots & a .022 cap, this works very well for most guitars & most genres of music. It is always a good choice. Hot neck PU's have more mids & less treble, and would be too dark & muffled to be of much use to most of us. PAF style neck HB's dominate the field, for good reason.

The big questions come with the bridge PU; there are so many ways to go. The classic rock/blues guys (like me) want some warmth & color, so alnico magnets are favored. Metal heads need something to cut through mounds of distortion and effects, so ceramic magnets & active PU's are preferred, both of which are bright, sterile, & powerful, and don't get muddy as easily as alnicos.

The next question is how powerful a bridge PU. More windings means more resistence (ohms), more volume, more mids, with gradually less treble & clarity. Bridge PAF HB output is usually 8,000 to 8,500 ohms, so they're bright & clear, and great clean. Medium output HB's are in the 10,000 to 12,000 range & usually have a thicker tone. At 14,000 ohms you're into high output territory, and most are warm (the JB is an exception), and distort easily. You can get a thick, warm tone with any of these three output levels.

To get warmth on a bridge PU, you need to reduce treble, add mids, or both. How much, depends on your body's wood tone, and your style of music. Using a 250K pot or two (volume and/or tone) takes off some of the worst high end and bleeds it to ground. In conjunction with warm pots, a .100 cap is a good idea to help things along in that direction. As for magnets:
A2's have strong mids & little treble and a notorious flabby low end, making them very good for bridge PU's, and sometimes for neck PU's (in certain guitars).
A3's are similar but with a little more treble (that adds a dash of sparkle).
A4's have a balanced EQ, making them very versatile, good for the neck, and especially the bridge.
A5's have scooped mids, with ample treble & bass. They are often the best choice for neck HB's (although they can be too bassy in some guitars), and work well for many bridge PU's.

These magnets, pots, and caps are your tool kit to dial in your tone. So if you get a PU that doesn't do what you thought it would, don't sell it until you try a few low-cost mods. Remember, no matter what PU someone on this forum recommends, your wood may make it sound very different from theirs, and odds are you use a different amp & play a different style of music. One man's ideal tone is another man's "nails on a chalkbord." Get a soldering iron, a variety of alnico magnets, and some 250K pots (most HB guitars have 500K's on both PU's), and some .100 MF caps. You'll be able to shape a PU's EQ and output, and get closer to what you want. We'll guide you through the process, and before you know it, you'll be as opinionated as the rest of us.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

Wow, what a wealth of info in this thread. For this I thank all of you.

The push/pull pots that were installed when I got the pickups put in are both 500k. There are also caps installed but I am not sure of the value.

I am thinking of getting ahold of the custom shop and getting the magnet from the distortion, and putting that in my JB. I will also pick up a 250k push pull and some different caps.

I still have my old pickups, so I will experiment with the magnets that are in those into the 59, I believe that they are alnico 2 and 4.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

All of us have our own preferences. Here's mine for reference, to give you an idea of how someone mods their guitars (I play Chicago blues & classic rock):

1) I put 250K pots on my bridge HB's, with .100 caps to warm them. I like a bridge PU that is rich, full, and has body and punch. This brings the PU's closer in EQ, so one amp setting works very well for both. For some guys, 500K's are fine, or a 500K & 250K together. I like lots of warmth here.

2) I use the normal 500K pots with .022 caps on neck PU's for brightness. I need a neck PU with sparkle & life, that can cut through for solos.

3) In neck PU's, I usually prefer A5 magnets for brightness. In the Gibson neck PU's I have (490R, '57 Classic, & Burstbucker) I pull the A2's as they're too dark & muffled for me & I put in A5's. Most other neck HB's have A5's. In some guitars, depending on the style of music, A4's or A3's are ideal in the neck PU. You be the judge.

4) In bridge PU's, A5's usually work well, as the 250K's take off the worst of the treble. In bridge PAF HB's, I often put in A4's for the added mids. But because I 250K's, medium & high output HB's sometimes sound too compressed with A4's, A3's, or A2's. If you use 500K pots on the bridge, then warmer magents make a lot of sense. Magnets and/or pots are different approaches to warming bridge PU's. Both will get you there.

5) To many of us, JB's are too bright & have an unpleasant "ice pick" tone. The JB has an A5, and if you pull the ceramic magnet from the DD, you'll have a very bright PU. Is that what you want? Are you playing metal? I've tried several ceramic magnet HB's, along with a few JB's, and was disappointed in all of them, and I tried them in different guitars (LP, SG, 335). Too bright & harsh for me. Sold them all. Swapping magnets helped, but I have a stash of surplus PU's, and there were better choices on hand. For a high output bridge PU, the C5 with 250K pots works well for me, or a Gibson 498T with an A4 magnet & 250K pots. Some guys say these PU's are too bright for them, but I shave off the upper treble, and leave just enough for "bite." I get them to sound full-bodied.

For me, these mods are great. But guys that like bright-sounding guitars (metal, country, surf, etc) would find my tones too dark. What you need to do first is figure out your tone goals. The next thing to do is determine if your current guitar is what you want, and if not, what tonal aspects need to be improved. Check out websites of PU specs. Experiment with these tools, and you'll get closer. Maybe real close.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

What you need to do first is figure out your tone goals. The next thing to do is determine if your current guitar is what you want, and if not, what tonal aspects need to be improved. Check out websites of PU specs. Experiment with these tools, and you'll get closer. Maybe real close.

Great advice here. It's about figuring out exactly what your guitar sounds like, and then figuring out which pickups will best represent the frequencies that your guitar puts out, and whether or not some areas like "high strings are too trebley compared to the others" or "tighter articulation for distorted palm mutes" need to be improved. Choosing pickups is almost like diagnosing your guitar's diseases... just make sure that you're diagnosing your own guitar and not the immense variety of opinions on this board :scared:

And when in doubt, fiddle with stuff. Pickups don't affect your tone as much as your guitar or amp. Try to find pickups that have characteristics that fit your playing style, because there are many more things you can do later to fine tune your tone.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

Sounds like you want the Jazz in the neck. Jazz/Distortion may work well for you...

Donahue- "The oracles" You SLEIGH me SANTA!
 
Re: Studio LP pups

If you want hard rock tones go with new ceramic mag, its a cheap mod. You don't even have to buy a new pickup, just a $10 mag. The DD sounds better than the JB IMO. Bluesman left out the part about the low-end getting a complete makeover with the ceramic mag and sounding much better and tighter.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

I wanted to see how these pups sounded compared to each other, & I figured it might interest some of y'all.

SH-6 vs 81 vs 85

Guitar 1: Dean Z-X (Explorer), Duncan SH-6 Distortion bridge. Basswood body, string-through fixed bridge, maple bolt on neck, rosewood fretboard, 24.75" scale. Older EB strings.

Guitar 2: Schecter C1 HellRaiser, EMG 81 bridge. Mahogany body w/maple top, string-through fixed bridge, mahogany set neck, rosewood fretboard, 25.5" scale. Older EB strings.

Guitar 3: Ibanez RG410, EMG 85 bridge. Basswood body, licensed Floyd Rose bridge, bolt on maple neck, rosewood fretboard, 25.5" scale. Newer EB strings.

Line 6 GuitarPort, boosted Uberschall/4x12 V30 cab model, PC.

Keep in mind this is intended to compare pickups, not a critique of the overall tone I used. These were not post-EQ'd for tone, I just plugged in & flogged away.

:)


Heres a link that a forum bro posted for a comparison. Listen to the DD and then YOU decide.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

Well the crate amp and digitech pedal are gone now... I picked up a Epi valve jr head with the matching cab. It's great to hear what my guitar actually sounds like, and it is amazing how much solid state stuff masks how many bad habits I have developed over the years.

With that said, I have found that the 59b in the neck is pretty much useless. It lacks clarity, the bass is boomy, the treble is muffled it breaks up a lot sooner than the JB. I have tried adjusting the height of the pickup and also the pole pieces. I was able to somewhat tone down the bass, but overall something needs to change with this PU. It is installed with the adjustable pole pieces facing the neck, would turning it around the other way make a difference?

The stock pups have no identifying markers on them, on the bottom all they say is gibson usa. I guess I would need to take a meter to them to see what the resistance of each is to figure out which is which.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

With that said, I have found that the 59b in the neck is pretty much useless. It lacks clarity, the bass is boomy, the treble is muffled it breaks up a lot sooner than the JB. I have tried adjusting the height of the pickup and also the pole pieces. I was able to somewhat tone down the bass, but overall something needs to change with this PU. It is installed with the adjustable pole pieces facing the neck, would turning it around the other way make a difference?

The stock pups have no identifying markers on them, on the bottom all they say is gibson usa. I guess I would need to take a meter to them to see what the resistance of each is to figure out which is which.

If the "Gibson USA" is etched in the base plate (and not a sticker) they're 490's. The bridge will be a little hotter. They have A2 magnets. In my 490's, I put an A5 in the neck & an A4 in the bridge. Much more clarity in the neck & the bridge is warmer. You might want an A4 or A3 in the neck to cut down the bass.

use your multimeter to compare the ohms on the 490R to the '59B. Hopefully you'll be a few hundred ohms less than the '59B, which will give more clarity. In most bodies, a PAF bridge HB works, but LP's can be tricky.

BTW, the pole pieces on the neck '59 should be facing the correct way, otherwise you get a thinner tone on both PU's.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

BTW, the pole pieces on the neck '59 should be facing the correct way, otherwise you get a thinner tone on both PU's.

Are you sure? Peter green flipped his neck pickup, and he didn't do too bad with the whole tone thing from what I hear. If you're hearing a really thin in-between sound, the pickups are probably out of phase (I hope that's the correct term), and all you need to do is flip the magnet to get it to sound full again. Because the slug coil of a humbucker is stronger, I would expect a flipped neck pickup to have a softer sound with more harmonic content. I don't know what it is, but putting pickups under that harmonic node where the 24th fret would normally lie just seems to bring life out of them (the same neck pickup will sound 'better' in a 22 fret than in a 24 fret guitar from what I can tell)
 
Re: Studio LP pups

Well I destroyed one of my old pickups today, lesson learned. Gibson pups that are 16 years old can provide a challenge to get the magnets out of... and they require the pole pieces to be loosened considerably.

Another lesson that I learned is that if you have locking tuners, and you need to get a pickup out, consider the current set of strings dead. If you have to unlock them, when you re-lock them, chances are that they will break when you tune back up.

Good news is that the JB sounds different with the magnet swap... actually sounds quite like the ol stocker. Haven't had a chance to put it through it's paces yet, but I will this weekend.

I also did some adjustments on the 59b in the neck and surprisingly I was able to get most of the boomy bass to dissipate and brought back some mids and treble.

As soon as cashflow will allow I will be picking up a variety of magnets, caps, and pots. This modding of the LP Studio is actually turning out to be quite some fun.

Thanks again for your help.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

What mag did you put into the JB? I read back, but I couldn't find where you mention it.
 
Re: Studio LP pups

What mag did you put into the JB? I read back, but I couldn't find where you mention it.

The guitar is a 92 studio, both of the pups were identical. They were sitting in the garage collecting dust and I figured I would open one up, snag the mag and see what happened. I think they are AII's in both. I could be wrong? Researching it I couldn't find anything conclusive aside from what Blueman stated.


Why do you say locking tuners are evil?
 
Re: Studio LP pups

locking tuners are not evil, they've been a godsend for my strat, increasing sustain and tuning stability enough to make the guitar sustain as much as my les paul (although it doesn't stay in tune as well, it stays in tune better than most 6-point tremolo strats).
 
Re: Studio LP pups

As for magnets:
A2's have strong mids & little treble and a notorious flabby low end, making them very good for bridge PU's, and sometimes for neck PU's (in certain guitars).
A3's are similar but with a little more treble (that adds a dash of sparkle).
A4's have a balanced EQ, making them very versatile, good for the neck, and especially the bridge.
A5's have scooped mids, with ample treble & bass. They are often the best choice for neck HB's (although they can be too bassy in some guitars), and work well for many bridge PU's.


How would A8's and Ceramics be classified along the same descriptive way you have above for A2-A5 ?


cheers
 
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