Suggestions for 4 conductor pickup wire

[Inflames626]

Hi all,
Does anyone have suggestions for 4 conductor pickup wire? I bought this from Stew Mac and I am not pleased with it.

https://www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/wires/4-conductor-circuit-wire---25-feet/

It's just not strong enough to maintain a good physical connection and is often thinner than the 4 conductor wire coming from the pickup.

If the wire is not tinned, it does not form a good physical connection with the pickup lead.

If the wire is pre-tinned to give it some strength and then fish hooked around the pre-tinned pickup lead, the spliced wire often becomes brittle and breaks inside the heat shrink tubing splice, especially if it has to be looped in any way.

I noticed the Stew-Mac wire is 28 awg. I have had some success using bare copper wire strands taken from 19 awg automotive wire. Two or three strands of that wound together is much stronger than the 28 awg 4 conductor wire.

Unfortunately, the bare copper wire is not color coded, and of course the 4 conductor wire will just break off if used with the automotive wire.

Thanks.

 

[beaubrummels]

I got mine from Guitar Parts Resource and haven't had any real problems.

 

[Artie]

I use this: https://guitarelectronics.com/four-conductor-shielded-humbucker-pickup-wire/

Pretty much indistinguishable from the Duncan wire.

 

[Inflames626]

Thanks guys. The stuff I'm using is about as strong as human hair. I like the cloth push back single or braided wire so much better. I wish 4 conductor wire was as strong.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

This stuff. 13 bucks for a 10 foot length.

Remember it's pickup wire. You're not supposed to put any mechanical stress or load on the stuff.

ROSENICE 4-Conductor Shielded Wire Guitar Circuit Wiring Hookup Wire Pickup Cable https://a.co/d/3dV4tLF

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

PS

1. pre-tinning doesn't impart mechanical strength. It's there to make it easier to solder, but you still have to make sure it's copper wire underneath, not aluminum, as soldering to aluminum basically can't be done.
2. The bare (ground) wire isn't supposed to be color coded or insulated at all. The bare makes contact with the shielding tape to ground the shielding tape. You are free, of course, to but heat shrink over the exposed sections coming out from the plastic outer sheathing.

 

[GuitarDoc]

It's just not strong enough to maintain a good physical connection
If the wire is not tinned, it does not form a good physical connection with the pickup lead.
If the wire is pre-tinned to give it some strength and then fish hooked around the pre-tinned pickup lead, the spliced wire often becomes brittle and breaks inside the heat shrink tubing splice.

.


You are soldering it, right?
OMG! Are you using this to wire a boat trailer or an engine lift?!
Physical connection? The "physical" connection is only important to hold the wire in place while you solder it. In guitars, since there is relatively little movement of the wires, it's the "electrical" connection that's most important. If soldering is done correctly, there will be plenty of physical connection.

"brittle and breaks inside the heat shrink tubing", Really?! What the h*** are you doing to break a soldered wire connection inside heat shrink?
In 60 years of working on guitars and other more heavy duty wire soldering I have never, never, NEVER broken a soldered wire in heat shrink.
You are definitely not doing something right.

If you want, I'll be glad to teach you about soldering. I think I posted a "Soldering 101" on here a few years ago, but I'll be glad to go through it with you if you can't find it.

I noticed the Stew-Mac wire is 28 awg. I have had some success using bare copper wire strands taken from 19 awg automotive wire. Two or three strands of that wound together is much stronger than the 28 awg 4 conductor wire..

2 or 3 strands of 19 gauge would be about the same diameter as 28 gauge, but would not be nearly as strong or resistant to breakage from fatigue/bending, and certainly wouldn't be nearly as flexible as 28 gauge stranded wire.
28 gauge is fine for guitar wiring (plenty strong enough and thin enough to fit through eyelets), but my preferred wire is 26 gauge stranded silicone insulated wire with 30 strands. Very flexible, strong, easy to use, pre-tinned, solders well, small enough to fit through eyelets of everything used in guitars (vol/tone pots, selector switches, p/p pots, micro switches, etc.).
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FMF281L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[GuitarDoc]

This stuff. 13 bucks for a 10 foot length.

Remember it's pickup wire. You're not supposed to put any mechanical stress or load on the stuff.

ROSENICE 4-Conductor Shielded Wire Guitar Circuit Wiring Hookup Wire Pickup Cable https://a.co/d/3dV4tLF

That wire should be perfect for guitar wiring (26 ga, stranded).

 

[GuitarDoc]

Thanks guys. The stuff I'm using is about as strong as human hair. I like the cloth push back single or braided wire so much better. I wish 4 conductor wire was as strong.

Push back wire is 22 ga. You can get 4 cond wire in as large a gauge as you want, from 30 ga to 16 ga. (which would be crazy big to use in a guitar), or even 6 ga (and probably even bigger)! https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0931Y21B9...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Pickup wiring isn't intended to take any mechanical load...

 

[GuitarDoc]

^, there you go. That's what I want in MY guitar.

Heaven knows, I don't want any wires to break in there. (But do they make heat shrink to fit?)

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

That's the crane barge Sleipnir, carrying the old Brent Alpha oil platform's jacket to shore for scrapping. The lift weight was over 10,000 metric tonnes,, or about 22MILLION pounds.

Sleipnir's cranes are rated for 10,000 tinnes EACH IIRC.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

PS rumor has it Rick Parfitt used to use their leftovers...

 

[Artie]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FMF281L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

I remember when you turned me on to this stuff. I got the little "6-pak" box. Great stuff.

 

[Inflames626]

When the leads are cut very short very close to the pickup there is not much room to work with it.

Additionally, when the wire will be twisted back around and tucked into the cavity to be used with a Triple Shot, stress will be put on the solder joints.

Additionally, solder joints that are within heat shrink tubing may bulge slightly and require some physical force to pull through the lead hole to the control cavity.

When I splice wires, I want them to be as strong and as flexible as when the pickup lead was one continuous wire.

The physical connection has to be there to hold the wire in place, yes. It also has to continually hold a connection that maintains continuity on a multimeter and does not go to 0 when the wire is held at a certain angle that breaks the spliced connection.

When you have to pre-tin your wires so they maintain their shape so you can physically join them, the wire strength is not sufficient.

Please do bring on wire that is stronger and thicker. I am willing to sacrifice ease of fitting into the guitar for connections that do not break.

 

[beaubrummels]

FWIW I'm not a solder guru, but I haven't ever pre-tinned wires that I was splicing together because I favored threading/twisting the strands into each other and having the solder act as a sheath to protect the splice. The pre-tinning is probably what's leading to your splices not making or keeping a connection, in this case.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

FWIW I'm not a solder guru, but I haven't ever pre-tinned wires that I was splicing together because I favored threading/twisting the strands into each other and having the solder act as a sheath to protect the splice. The pre-tinning is probably what's leading to your splices not making or keeping a connection, in this case.

Agreed. Unless the individual strands are pre-tinned, don't pre-tin the whole wire before you splice.

Take about 3/8ths of an inch (10 mm) of stripped wires on each piece. Twist those together then solder them to each other. Once the joint had cooled, bend it flat and put the heat shrink over the joint.

 

[Inflames626]

I use the fish hook method. Each end is hooked around the other and then soldered once they are physically secure prior to the soldering process. I find this shape keeps the wire profile flat as well.

It's easier to create those hooks when tinned ends create some rigidity in the strands.

If I twist bare wire without tinning it, it breaks because it is too fine, especially parallel wires that are not twisted together.

Bending the wires flat does help, but it also creates connection issues if the wire needs to be twisted or routed at a sharp angle, such as, in this case, connecting back to a Triple Shot and compressing the wires into the pickup cavity under the pickup. Or, in the case of soldering a connection very close to the pickup base plate where a lot of strain relief is probably needed because this is where a lot of movement occurs.

Additionally, pressing the wires flat still creates some bulge underneath the shrink tubing. These bulges can catch on the inside of the guitar, requiring some mild to moderate force to pull them through the cavity.

This force would not harm an intact wire, but in my experience it can break spliced connections within the tubing.

Not refuting anyone's advice here, btw. Just explaining why I have been having problems.

 

[JamesPaul]

Not implying anything or judging, but I remember a thread on this topic being vaulted. If you have not already, you might review it and see if it has a tip to get you past these issues.

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/forum/the-vault/84190-pickup-cable-splicing-tutorial

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

I use the fish hook method. Each end is hooked around the other and then soldered once they are physically secure prior to the soldering process. I find this shape keeps the wire profile flat as well.

It's easier to create those hooks when tinned ends create some rigidity in the strands.

If I twist bare wire without tinning it, it breaks because it is too fine, especially parallel wires that are not twisted together.

Bending the wires flat does help, but it also creates connection issues if the wire needs to be twisted or routed at a sharp angle, such as, in this case, connecting back to a Triple Shot and compressing the wires into the pickup cavity under the pickup. Or, in the case of soldering a connection very close to the pickup base plate where a lot of strain relief is probably needed because this is where a lot of movement occurs.

Additionally, pressing the wires flat still creates some bulge underneath the shrink tubing. These bulges can catch on the inside of the guitar, requiring some mild to moderate force to pull them through the cavity.

This force would not harm an intact wire, but in my experience it can break spliced connections within the tubing.

Not refuting anyone's advice here, btw. Just explaining why I have been having problems.

Jeez, what are you wearing? Boxing gloves?