treyhaislip
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
This is true
Time will tell which direction the new parent company will go.
This is true
Time will tell which direction the new parent company will go.
Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
- Thread starter frankfalbo
- Start date
jmh151
Active member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
Recently a local Brewery near me on Long Island- Blue Point Brewery- was bought up by Annheiser Busch. Annheiser bought them since they saw potential in the brand- and in about a year, Annheiser invested alot of money improving operations, rebuilt the brewery and invested in advertising and public relations. The prior owners- who sold the company- were now able to retire and provide for their families for generations. Basically Annheiser bought a well established brand they saw they could improve and capitalize on.
It doesn't make business send for this new company to buy a well established company with name recognition like Suhr,run it into the ground and lose $11 million when they can invest in it and make more. I see alot of potential in improving the import line the way PRS has done with their SE line- the Rasmus line- aside from the Guthrie Govan model, left alot to be desired
Recently a local Brewery near me on Long Island- Blue Point Brewery- was bought up by Annheiser Busch. Annheiser bought them since they saw potential in the brand- and in about a year, Annheiser invested alot of money improving operations, rebuilt the brewery and invested in advertising and public relations. The prior owners- who sold the company- were now able to retire and provide for their families for generations. Basically Annheiser bought a well established brand they saw they could improve and capitalize on.
It doesn't make business send for this new company to buy a well established company with name recognition like Suhr,run it into the ground and lose $11 million when they can invest in it and make more. I see alot of potential in improving the import line the way PRS has done with their SE line- the Rasmus line- aside from the Guthrie Govan model, left alot to be desired
GuitarStv
Sock Market Trader
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
I sure hope they're right. It would be excellent for my portfolio.
I sure hope they're right. It would be excellent for my portfolio.
Boogie Bill
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
I can't see this being a good thing for players who want to buy a Suhr guitar. This is a holding/investment company...not like Fender buying another guitar company, or Busch buying another brewery. Those companies knew their business...building guitars and making beer. This is like Norlin buying Gibson...and that didn't turn out well.
Bill
I can't see this being a good thing for players who want to buy a Suhr guitar. This is a holding/investment company...not like Fender buying another guitar company, or Busch buying another brewery. Those companies knew their business...building guitars and making beer. This is like Norlin buying Gibson...and that didn't turn out well.
Bill
Gone_Shootin
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
Yes, but the difference here is that Shur is getting bought out by an investment firm, not a musical instrument manufacturer. Not necessarily a good thing.
Yes, but the difference here is that Shur is getting bought out by an investment firm, not a musical instrument manufacturer. Not necessarily a good thing.
KeeperOS
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
D@mn, and I so dreamed I'd one day get a Suhr. That's done.
Nope, no hope whatsoever that a "Nevada corporation and holding company, publicly traded on the OTC Markets platform focused on creating superior long-term returns for shareholders through a unique structure of diversified holdings" will be AT ALL interested in improving ANYTHING other than their shareholder's bank statements.
Yes, people said that when Fender bought Charvel/Jackson and they were wrong but Fender was ALWAYS in the business of making guitars, not simply "more money"...
RIP Suhr guitars...
D@mn, and I so dreamed I'd one day get a Suhr. That's done.
Nope, no hope whatsoever that a "Nevada corporation and holding company, publicly traded on the OTC Markets platform focused on creating superior long-term returns for shareholders through a unique structure of diversified holdings" will be AT ALL interested in improving ANYTHING other than their shareholder's bank statements.
Yes, people said that when Fender bought Charvel/Jackson and they were wrong but Fender was ALWAYS in the business of making guitars, not simply "more money"...
RIP Suhr guitars...
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
Most businesses like that are typically worth around what they make in a year, unless there's a ton of cash value to the brand name.
I have to admit this is surprising to me. I was at Suhr getting an amp fixed roughly a year ago and the place looked like it needed no help. Very impressive facility with a lot of people working hard on making awesome stuff.
Read the article and it wasn't immediately clear as to what the motive for the sale was...
Suhr make amazing stuff. We'll have to see what happens.
Most businesses like that are typically worth around what they make in a year, unless there's a ton of cash value to the brand name.
I have to admit this is surprising to me. I was at Suhr getting an amp fixed roughly a year ago and the place looked like it needed no help. Very impressive facility with a lot of people working hard on making awesome stuff.
Read the article and it wasn't immediately clear as to what the motive for the sale was...
Suhr make amazing stuff. We'll have to see what happens.
Vasshu the humanoid typhoon
Unseen
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
American business.....got no nothing much nice to say......who buys anything music instrument related these days anyways?
American business.....got no nothing much nice to say......who buys anything music instrument related these days anyways?
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
the real questions here:
#1 Suhr is good product, but how were they as a business originally. Lots of good "products" are horrible as companies.
#2 What is the MO and intention of the purchaser?
#3 What was the Suhr product market projection regardless of owner. MAybe changes are needed. MAybe not.
the real questions here:
#1 Suhr is good product, but how were they as a business originally. Lots of good "products" are horrible as companies.
#2 What is the MO and intention of the purchaser?
#3 What was the Suhr product market projection regardless of owner. MAybe changes are needed. MAybe not.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
My experience/observation with this kind of situation is the investment company will come in and streamline it, do whatever cost-cutting measures or hiring/firing to improve management, and make it appealing for another company within that industry to buy it. Investment firms buy companies to flip them, not run them.
My experience/observation with this kind of situation is the investment company will come in and streamline it, do whatever cost-cutting measures or hiring/firing to improve management, and make it appealing for another company within that industry to buy it. Investment firms buy companies to flip them, not run them.
GilmourD
Burritotoneologist
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
Also, my company is owned by Morgan Stanley since '09.
Then what's up with GC/MF?
Also, my company is owned by Morgan Stanley since '09.
dominus
King Midas to Cheap Guitars
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
If an investment firm owns a company for a long time, either it's a self-propelled cash cow, or they couldn't find a buyer.
If an investment firm owns a company for a long time, either it's a self-propelled cash cow, or they couldn't find a buyer.
straycat113
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
I find this mind boggling as Suhr guitars without John Suhr running the show would be like going to see The Stones or Zep in their prime without Jagger or Plant singing lead. Also the company buying them is in no way a powerhouse firm and still doesn't have all the capital to close the deal- http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/AVLP/news?id=107574
It states in that article that John and management would stay on during the transitional phase but no mention of anything longer. If everything works out great for John and he sets up his family to be financially set for life, more power to him as he deserves it. But as far as guitarist go this sucks big time as we have all seen through history when a bunch of suits who are only interested in turning a profit buy a music company the end results are drastic.
I find this mind boggling as Suhr guitars without John Suhr running the show would be like going to see The Stones or Zep in their prime without Jagger or Plant singing lead. Also the company buying them is in no way a powerhouse firm and still doesn't have all the capital to close the deal- http://www.otcmarkets.com/stock/AVLP/news?id=107574
It states in that article that John and management would stay on during the transitional phase but no mention of anything longer. If everything works out great for John and he sets up his family to be financially set for life, more power to him as he deserves it. But as far as guitarist go this sucks big time as we have all seen through history when a bunch of suits who are only interested in turning a profit buy a music company the end results are drastic.
treyhaislip
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
Not to be argumentative but I am an accountant and both in college and my time at a CPA Firm the discussion of buying another company came up quite a bit. While many factors do play into it, the price usually took into account X number of year's worth of income that is determined by a rate to get the new company's discounted future cash flows from the business (fair market value of the future cash.) Of-course, the assets on hand plus any patents & trademarks along with debts and all play a part as well...its a complicated equation. lol
From my experience the price shouldn't be basically 1 year's worth of Revenue. It could be that there is quite a bit of debt or the company has a lot of expenses or the current owners simply wanted out...a lot does go into it I just would have expected more than the $11mil for a company with $10mil in Revenue BUT that is the only info given and there are alot of other factors at work here.
Hopefully the new company will continue to make awesome equipment. Change of ownership is not always a bad thing.
Not to be argumentative but I am an accountant and both in college and my time at a CPA Firm the discussion of buying another company came up quite a bit. While many factors do play into it, the price usually took into account X number of year's worth of income that is determined by a rate to get the new company's discounted future cash flows from the business (fair market value of the future cash.) Of-course, the assets on hand plus any patents & trademarks along with debts and all play a part as well...its a complicated equation. lol
From my experience the price shouldn't be basically 1 year's worth of Revenue. It could be that there is quite a bit of debt or the company has a lot of expenses or the current owners simply wanted out...a lot does go into it I just would have expected more than the $11mil for a company with $10mil in Revenue BUT that is the only info given and there are alot of other factors at work here.
Hopefully the new company will continue to make awesome equipment. Change of ownership is not always a bad thing.
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Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
Hmmm... good to know.
And yes I do agree, change in ownership isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Not to be argumentative but I am an accountant and both in college and my time at a CPA Firm the discussion of buying another company came up quite a bit. While many factors do play into it, the price usually took into account X number of year's worth of income that is determined by a rate to get the new company's discounted future cash flows from the business (fair market value of the future cash.) Of-course, the assets on hand plus any patents & trademarks along with debts and all play a part as well...its a complicated equation. lol
From my experience the price shouldn't be basically 1 year's worth of Revenue. It could be that there is quite a bit of debt or the company has a lot of expenses or the current owners simply wanted out...a lot does go into it I just would have expected more than the $11mil for a company with $10mil in Revenue BUT that is the only info given and there are alot of other factors at work here.
Hopefully the new company will continue to make awesome equipment. Change of ownership is not always a bad thing.
Hmmm... good to know.
And yes I do agree, change in ownership isn't necessarily a bad thing.
jtees4
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
I agree, and something that also used to bug me about Fender: They used to really go out of their way to make sure folks did not easily know where their specific guitar models were made, I remember many posts about certain models and if anyone knew where they came from. Fender did not like to label things at one time....granted....they do a much better job of it today. I appreciate the fact that Gibson is made in the USA and Epiphone is their imported line. No hiding.
I agree, and something that also used to bug me about Fender: They used to really go out of their way to make sure folks did not easily know where their specific guitar models were made, I remember many posts about certain models and if anyone knew where they came from. Fender did not like to label things at one time....granted....they do a much better job of it today. I appreciate the fact that Gibson is made in the USA and Epiphone is their imported line. No hiding.
DreX
New member
Re: Suhr in the process of getting bought out.
How did they hide where guitars were made?
It's not a matter of hiding, nothing is a secret in the end. It's a matter of associating brand with quality. MIJ's are great guitars, with levels of machining precision that appear to meet or exceed MIAs. There's no reason Fender should hesitate to put their name on that kind of quality. MIM on the other hand, I find numerous small issues with them, and I believe hurt the brand somewhat. They're about on par with Epiphone quality.
How did they hide where guitars were made?
It's not a matter of hiding, nothing is a secret in the end. It's a matter of associating brand with quality. MIJ's are great guitars, with levels of machining precision that appear to meet or exceed MIAs. There's no reason Fender should hesitate to put their name on that kind of quality. MIM on the other hand, I find numerous small issues with them, and I believe hurt the brand somewhat. They're about on par with Epiphone quality.
