Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

[some_dude]

....after a few hours of f*cking about with scooping, I actually have more mids.

Just for info's sake, I'm using a Rectifier with a Furman PQ-3 Parametric EQ in a serial loop.

First off, scooping a Rectifier with the amps EQ sounds like ass. I also tried scooping using a Boss GE-7 in the loop, but it gave me that really hollow, overly scooped Boss Metal Zone tone....so basically, the slider frequencies were too broad.

After messing about with the GE-7, I put the Furman PQ-3 in the loop. I set the boost to +15db, narrow bandwidth, then moved the Q knob back and forth until the tone sounded as bad as possible (~750hz), then I reversed the EQ's gain and cut that frequency -15db and tweeked the Q a little more (finally ending at around 775hz)

After that, I messed about with the amps EQ and started dumping more treble and mids into the signal, but because that one frequency was cut, it wouldn't get all noisy and sloppy on me. I also raised the presence a slight bit for more sizzle, and reduced the bass a little to take out the boomy-ness that started up when I raised the mids, then I bumped the lower midrange (~375hz) up a couple of db on the Furman which added more crunch to the palm mutes.

I have a new found respect for parametric EQ's once again. The ability to zero in and slice out a very narrow frequency band while leaving the rest of the midrange in tact has given me a much, much tighter, crunchier, more thrashy rhythm tone without sounding like a hollow as hell Metal Zone. This has added a whole new level of agressivness to an already agressive sounding amp....and to think, I was about to sell the thing.

Contragulations to anyone who read all that.

Current settings below. I'll be doing some more tweeking tomorrow, including experimenting with cutting a few db at 250hz. I ran out of time as I don't like to run the amp too loud after dark, and these new settings actually let me run the amp louder than normal before the power tubes go all mushy on me. :eek5:

Amp

Gain 10:00 (Modern)
Treb 13:00
Mids 13:00
Bass 11:00
Pres 13:30
Mast 12:00

Furman

+3db @ ~375hz (2 on bandwidth)
-(infinity)db @ ~750hz (2.2 on bandwidth)

 

[RiffGuy]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

Wow. You're a tone scientist. I'll have to read over and dissect your post before I can apply any of that to my equipment, though. I don't have a parametric eq for my amp, but I do have one in a PreSonus channel strip I use for recording. I'm still getting the hang of it. Cool info though, however confusing it is.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

That was a great idea, using the eq to see where the tone got worst, then cutting that.

EQ is THE most underutilized tool (or "effect") and I think it is one of the most empowering. Used right, it can widen the spectrum (pardon the pun) of tonal pallettes from a guitar/amp combination. One can use it to help get great cleans from an setup that doesn't have them, good dirt from a single coil pickup, as well as many other things.

I, too, like parametric equalizers. I have been very satisfied with the parametric eq's on the Boss GT series of processors. Your post really makes me believe that they are superior to the GE-7 pedal.

Great post.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

For those interested, I edited the above post with a few more details.

The only problem I've come across in these settings is that while they are excellent for a tight rhythm tone, they kill the amps lead tone. My EQ is bypassable, which means I can kill the EQ when I hit solo and get all my midrange back, so that might be something to think about if you ever mess about with this stuff.

 

[jmcorey]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

For those interested, I edited the above post with a few more details.

The only problem I've come across in these settings is that while they are excellent for a tight rhythm tone, they kill the amps lead tone. My EQ is bypassable, which means I can kill the EQ when I hit solo and get all my midrange back, so that might be something to think about if you ever mess about with this stuff.

Lead tones typically have more mids, to my mind.

 

[mrid]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

That Furman unit is a cool little item to have...I wish I still had mine.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

Amp

Gain 10:00 (Modern)
Treb 13:00
Mids 13:00
Bass 11:00
Pres 13:30
Mast 12:00

Furman

+3db @ ~375hz (2 on bandwidth)
-(infinity)db @ ~750hz (2.2 on bandwidth)

Furman

-4db @ ~195hz (1 on bandwidth)
+3db @ ~375hz (2.2 on bandwidth)
-(infinity)db @ ~750hz (2 on bandwidth)

Someone on another forum suggested I try cutting a couple DB at 250 hz to tighten things up. I tried that and ended up cutting -4db at ~195hz (1 on bandwidth). It really tightened the palm mutes up and for some reason it eliminated about 90% of my feedback.

After that tweek, I set my guitar (Les Paul) to it's middle position;

EMG 60 (neck) V-5, T-10
EMG 81 (bride) V-8, T-7

and the rhythm tone was sick as ****. There's this new middy crunch that I didn't have before. It's super tight and articulate, yet it still has that saggy Boogie feel to it.....it felt so much like a modern version of Iommi I had the earge to bust out every Sabbath Riff I knew....:bowdown:....including a few I made up, but I think he would've aproved of anyway.

 

[Quencho092]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

i dont even use pedals anymore now that ive discovered the greatness of simple fender blonde amps. But this seems quite interesting.

It's always a good approach to find 2 different tones for lead and rhythm, especially since many lead tones can seem harsh when applied to rhythm.

Do you use parametric for clean tones too, or does the mesa handle that readily? A good idea would be to apply some sort of light mid boost for clean leads, and an upper mid scoop for clean chording.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Surprising results from mid scooping experiment.....

i dont even use pedals anymore now that ive discovered the greatness of simple fender blonde amps. But this seems quite interesting.

My current setup is Guitar -> Amp with EQ -> Delay in the loop.

It's always a good approach to find 2 different tones for lead and rhythm, especially since many lead tones can seem harsh when applied to rhythm.

I agree. Mid boosted tones get to harsh and sloppy for my taste, but scooped lead tones just plain suck.

Do you use parametric for clean tones too, or does the mesa handle that readily? A good idea would be to apply some sort of light mid boost for clean leads, and an upper mid scoop for clean chording.

I've found the EQ settings I'm using above don't work well on cleans. I've been clicking the EQ off for cleans and just using the amps natural tone. I generally run a slight scoop for clean rhythm, and when I play clean lead I use a TS-9 for lead boosts (I don't use a "clean" clean lead tone).