Swamp ash
- Thread starter BloodRose
- Start date
treyhaislip
Well-known member
Re: Swamp ash
The guy who built my Strat was showing me different woods, and he had two basically identical guitars (same neck, hardware, strings, pickups, etc...) except one was Swamp Ash and the other Alder. I can't really explain the difference, but I preferred the Swamp Ash. I wanna say it sounded a little milder/not as harsh but it wasn't a significant difference. Seems to me that Swamp Ash has a really pretty grain while Alder is quite plain.
The guy who built my Strat was showing me different woods, and he had two basically identical guitars (same neck, hardware, strings, pickups, etc...) except one was Swamp Ash and the other Alder. I can't really explain the difference, but I preferred the Swamp Ash. I wanna say it sounded a little milder/not as harsh but it wasn't a significant difference. Seems to me that Swamp Ash has a really pretty grain while Alder is quite plain.
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Swamp ash
Love swamp ash. I have done several projects with swamp ash now and it always sound good. Heavy ash is not the same so make sure its lite. The tone is more pulled back in the upper mids compared to alder. Its sounds warmer to me probably because of that. Pick attack is right now. Very articulate especially with a maple neck. Bass is tight, deep, and not woofy. Sustain is good. Can be bright in the top end. A maple top isn't needed for bite and bright sustain.
Looks real good in transparent finish with dark grain staining, but its difficult to get a smooth, level, finish on. I did grain filler twice and sand and sealer and still the finish fell into the grain some on one. I don't care because its mine and I'm not selling it, but it something to be aware of.
Love swamp ash. I have done several projects with swamp ash now and it always sound good. Heavy ash is not the same so make sure its lite. The tone is more pulled back in the upper mids compared to alder. Its sounds warmer to me probably because of that. Pick attack is right now. Very articulate especially with a maple neck. Bass is tight, deep, and not woofy. Sustain is good. Can be bright in the top end. A maple top isn't needed for bite and bright sustain.
Looks real good in transparent finish with dark grain staining, but its difficult to get a smooth, level, finish on. I did grain filler twice and sand and sealer and still the finish fell into the grain some on one. I don't care because its mine and I'm not selling it, but it something to be aware of.
XSSIVE
OCDologist
Re: Swamp ash
In general alder is more of a flat eq curve, it's the "tastes like chicken" wood that all other wood is compared to usually. Swamp ash has more of a mid scoop, some people say swamp ash is brighter or has a bigger low end than alder when I think it's more of a lack of mid than an increase in bass and treble when compared to alder.
In general alder is more of a flat eq curve, it's the "tastes like chicken" wood that all other wood is compared to usually. Swamp ash has more of a mid scoop, some people say swamp ash is brighter or has a bigger low end than alder when I think it's more of a lack of mid than an increase in bass and treble when compared to alder.
Eren Semonik
New member
Re: Swamp ash
Swamp ash is great! Very tonally articulate and a bit on the harsh side, but it sounds awesome with a bit of crunch on the amp and a PAF type pickup to balance it out. Typically you'll see a lot of people combine ash bodies with maple boards, but ebony or even rosewood, if that's the tone you like, will go great with it. You won't need a maple top tonally, and since ash looks kick-ass on its own (it can be a very figured wood if you get a good cut), but if you want that sort of aesthetic then go for it. Take a look at the Chapman ML1 Hot Rod (located here), which is sort of a Halen-esque guitar, minus the maple fretboard. If you so wish, look for sound samples on YouTube and let your ears decide.
Swamp ash is great! Very tonally articulate and a bit on the harsh side, but it sounds awesome with a bit of crunch on the amp and a PAF type pickup to balance it out. Typically you'll see a lot of people combine ash bodies with maple boards, but ebony or even rosewood, if that's the tone you like, will go great with it. You won't need a maple top tonally, and since ash looks kick-ass on its own (it can be a very figured wood if you get a good cut), but if you want that sort of aesthetic then go for it. Take a look at the Chapman ML1 Hot Rod (located here), which is sort of a Halen-esque guitar, minus the maple fretboard. If you so wish, look for sound samples on YouTube and let your ears decide.
Robert Delahunt
Showmasterologist
Re: Swamp ash
No offense, but please Google for stuff like this. This is one site that I usually go by:
http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm
No offense, but please Google for stuff like this. This is one site that I usually go by:
http://www.jemsite.com/jem/wood.htm
PoorMan
MoneyForNothingologist
Re: Swamp ash
I agree with this. I've encountered Swamp Ash that gobbles up mids like they are going out of style. I didn't care for it much in my recent experience. I've found alder to also be more consistent from piece to piece.
It's not uncommon for my pickup customers with SA guitars to request more mids.
I agree with this. I've encountered Swamp Ash that gobbles up mids like they are going out of style. I didn't care for it much in my recent experience. I've found alder to also be more consistent from piece to piece.
It's not uncommon for my pickup customers with SA guitars to request more mids.
ItsaBass
New member
Re: Swamp ash
It is highly variable.
First of all, "Swamp Ash" is not a species of tree, or even a specifically and/or legally defined type of lumber. It's just a marketing term used these days to try and sell guitars, and nothing else. That's it; it has no real meaning beyond that. Originally, it was called swamp ash only to roughly label what region it came from. Those areas have now been pretty much completely deforested, and true "swamp ash" (i.e. ash that just happened to grow in a swamp) is basically impossible to find as lumber. Nowadays, when a guitar maker calls something "swamp ash," it is usually just the pieces of ash that happens to not weight a ton...though there is no official set of specifications for what can legally be called swamp ash and what cannot. They just know that people want "swamp ash," so they call it that. In other words, "swamp ash" is a pretty much meaningless term these days. All it basically means is "ash," and, TMK, no other industry uses the term "swamp ash" today.
That said, no matter what it is, it does sound different than alder. It tends to be a more middy and less bottom heavy wood.
...and THAT said, every chunk of wood is very different. You will have significant variation within species, such that the ranges of variation will overlap. For instance, I've had "swamp ash" guitars that were very dark, and alder guitars that were brighter than normal. If I'd had to do a blind test, I would have assumed that each wood was the other, based on common generalizations about those woods.
In other words, if you're just building one guitar here or there, you never know what you're gonna get by choosing a certain type of wood. In order to establish tonal predictability in the construction of a guitar, you're gonna need to build tons of them, in order to allow a natural average to make itself clear.
It is highly variable.
First of all, "Swamp Ash" is not a species of tree, or even a specifically and/or legally defined type of lumber. It's just a marketing term used these days to try and sell guitars, and nothing else. That's it; it has no real meaning beyond that. Originally, it was called swamp ash only to roughly label what region it came from. Those areas have now been pretty much completely deforested, and true "swamp ash" (i.e. ash that just happened to grow in a swamp) is basically impossible to find as lumber. Nowadays, when a guitar maker calls something "swamp ash," it is usually just the pieces of ash that happens to not weight a ton...though there is no official set of specifications for what can legally be called swamp ash and what cannot. They just know that people want "swamp ash," so they call it that. In other words, "swamp ash" is a pretty much meaningless term these days. All it basically means is "ash," and, TMK, no other industry uses the term "swamp ash" today.
That said, no matter what it is, it does sound different than alder. It tends to be a more middy and less bottom heavy wood.
...and THAT said, every chunk of wood is very different. You will have significant variation within species, such that the ranges of variation will overlap. For instance, I've had "swamp ash" guitars that were very dark, and alder guitars that were brighter than normal. If I'd had to do a blind test, I would have assumed that each wood was the other, based on common generalizations about those woods.
In other words, if you're just building one guitar here or there, you never know what you're gonna get by choosing a certain type of wood. In order to establish tonal predictability in the construction of a guitar, you're gonna need to build tons of them, in order to allow a natural average to make itself clear.
80's_Metal
Underglazed Hair Metalologist
Re: Swamp ash
I made a guitar out of large blank of swamp ash. Thing weighed a friggin ton. but it sounded amazing
I made a guitar out of large blank of swamp ash. Thing weighed a friggin ton. but it sounded amazing
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Swamp ash
I just put a new Strat together with a one piece swamp ash body.
I reused the neck, pickups, tremolo and all the parts from a different Strat I'd built using an alder body.
Only change I made was the body itself.
So: the swamp ash version is lighter, much more resonant and a lot prettier than the alder version.
The one piece swamp ash body seems to give the guitar a fuller, livlier tone with more bass.
I prefer the tone with the new Swamp Ash body.
Before:
After:
I just put a new Strat together with a one piece swamp ash body.
I reused the neck, pickups, tremolo and all the parts from a different Strat I'd built using an alder body.
Only change I made was the body itself.
So: the swamp ash version is lighter, much more resonant and a lot prettier than the alder version.
The one piece swamp ash body seems to give the guitar a fuller, livlier tone with more bass.
I prefer the tone with the new Swamp Ash body.
Before:
After:
Last edited:
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Swamp ash
Just for the sake of accuracy, I did make one change: I reused the Duncan Antiquity Surfer neck and middle pickups but used a new Lindy Fralin SP43 for the bridge pickup.
And I'm getting a custom made neck from USA Custom Guitars for this ax, and I'll have it finished and distressed/reliced by Mark Jenny who did the swamp ash body on this new ax.
The old neck is beautiful but a little to thick at the heel. Makes me have to crank the bridge saddles up to high.
Can't decide on the specs for the new neck. I'll either go with a flame maple '56 or '57 style but with a 12" radius and 6105 frets or one made to the same specs as the new Eric Johnson necks with the rosewood fingerboard, 12" radius and 6105 frets.
I'm still mulling it over.
Just for the sake of accuracy, I did make one change: I reused the Duncan Antiquity Surfer neck and middle pickups but used a new Lindy Fralin SP43 for the bridge pickup.
And I'm getting a custom made neck from USA Custom Guitars for this ax, and I'll have it finished and distressed/reliced by Mark Jenny who did the swamp ash body on this new ax.
The old neck is beautiful but a little to thick at the heel. Makes me have to crank the bridge saddles up to high.
Can't decide on the specs for the new neck. I'll either go with a flame maple '56 or '57 style but with a 12" radius and 6105 frets or one made to the same specs as the new Eric Johnson necks with the rosewood fingerboard, 12" radius and 6105 frets.
I'm still mulling it over.
Last edited:
tubecrunch
New member
Re: Swamp ash
Swamp ash body from warmoth. Had to save money, so I didn't pay extra to pick a specific piece or add a top. I let them know I was staining the filler, so they matched some nice grain for me knowing it would be transparent.
Swamp ash body from warmoth. Had to save money, so I didn't pay extra to pick a specific piece or add a top. I let them know I was staining the filler, so they matched some nice grain for me knowing it would be transparent.
L
Little Pigbacon
Guest
Re: Swamp ash
Are you trying to imply that not all swamp ash guitar bodies are made of planks from the cabin where Muddy Waters was born?
Are you trying to imply that not all swamp ash guitar bodies are made of planks from the cabin where Muddy Waters was born?
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Swamp ash
That may not be completely true. Although the term Swamp Ash does lend a certain mystique to a wood used for guitar making.
As a professional woodworker and furniture designer for over 35 years, I think of them as being two different species of the same wood: Ash.
White Ash is great for flooring, furniture and baseball bats. It's color is usually whiter - like your typical baseball bat and it's usually heavier than Swamp Ash.
Swamp Ash is better for making guitars. It's usually lighter in weight and has a more musical resonance. It's usually more of a light brown color compared to White Ash.
Of course every piece of wood has it's own density, weight, look and characteristics - so I suppose it would be possible to find a particular piece of White Ash that would be lighter and more musical than a particular piece of Swamp Ash.
But generally, I prefer Swamp Ash (also called Red Ash) for Strat and Tele guitars.
That may not be completely true. Although the term Swamp Ash does lend a certain mystique to a wood used for guitar making.
As a professional woodworker and furniture designer for over 35 years, I think of them as being two different species of the same wood: Ash.
White Ash is great for flooring, furniture and baseball bats. It's color is usually whiter - like your typical baseball bat and it's usually heavier than Swamp Ash.
Swamp Ash is better for making guitars. It's usually lighter in weight and has a more musical resonance. It's usually more of a light brown color compared to White Ash.
Of course every piece of wood has it's own density, weight, look and characteristics - so I suppose it would be possible to find a particular piece of White Ash that would be lighter and more musical than a particular piece of Swamp Ash.
But generally, I prefer Swamp Ash (also called Red Ash) for Strat and Tele guitars.
Last edited:
treyhaislip
Well-known member
Re: Swamp ash
No offense, but if you Google stuff you will get many answers, some accurate and some inaccurate. Thats why you can't use "Google" and "Wikipedia" as a source in Higher Education Writing.
The reason we ask questions like this on a Guitar forum is that we are engaging people who have experience with the topic at hand...to me this info is more accurate than just Googling it because of the experience level we have specifically with guitars, tonewoods, pickups, etc.
No offense, but if you Google stuff you will get many answers, some accurate and some inaccurate. Thats why you can't use "Google" and "Wikipedia" as a source in Higher Education Writing.
The reason we ask questions like this on a Guitar forum is that we are engaging people who have experience with the topic at hand...to me this info is more accurate than just Googling it because of the experience level we have specifically with guitars, tonewoods, pickups, etc.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: Swamp ash
Here's some info from Wikipedia on the two different species: Swamp Ash and White Ash.
Swamp Ash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_pennsylvanica
White Ash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_americana
Here's some info from Wikipedia on the two different species: Swamp Ash and White Ash.
Swamp Ash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_pennsylvanica
White Ash: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraxinus_americana
elelpe
Well-known member
Re: Swamp ash
My tele has lightweight ash body (and maple neck). Very resonant and not as bright as any other ash teles I've tried (which are heavier than mine too). For a tele, mine is at darker side of tonal spectrum. I don't know what ash it is. What I know is I love lightweight ash. It's my favorite tonewood.
My tele has lightweight ash body (and maple neck). Very resonant and not as bright as any other ash teles I've tried (which are heavier than mine too). For a tele, mine is at darker side of tonal spectrum. I don't know what ash it is. What I know is I love lightweight ash. It's my favorite tonewood.
Lewguitar
New member
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: Swamp ash
In my experience, swamp ash guitars are very close to alder but have a bit more "pop", as though the transients are stronger and more articulate.
I think of it as the opposite of mahogany, in that mahogany lends a very round attack to the note.
Some people find it to be brighter than alder. I think that probably varies from piece to piece. My experience is that it is tonally very similar to alder, but alder has a slightly softer attack. The difference is quite subtle.
If you plan on doing your own finish, note that ash is one of the most difficult woods. The grain is very deep and requires a lot of prep and filling to get a flat finish.
In my experience, swamp ash guitars are very close to alder but have a bit more "pop", as though the transients are stronger and more articulate.
I think of it as the opposite of mahogany, in that mahogany lends a very round attack to the note.
Some people find it to be brighter than alder. I think that probably varies from piece to piece. My experience is that it is tonally very similar to alder, but alder has a slightly softer attack. The difference is quite subtle.
If you plan on doing your own finish, note that ash is one of the most difficult woods. The grain is very deep and requires a lot of prep and filling to get a flat finish.
Rockstar216
New member
Re: Swamp ash
This is my thoughts also. Between the strats I've played with ash and alder the ash had more pop and snap to it. Alder is a bit more subdued but more balanced.
This is my thoughts also. Between the strats I've played with ash and alder the ash had more pop and snap to it. Alder is a bit more subdued but more balanced.
