Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

[CoJo]

Hi Folks –

I’m new to this forum and to selecting and changing pickups, so I would appreciate some advice.

I have an original American Standard strat, circa late 1980s, serial number E 4…. with original pickups. I play mostly blues, pop, funk, some rock and roll, a little jazz. I love the guitar, but I have always found the high end a bit harsh for my taste. Never use the bridge pickup alone, which I would characterize as “ice pick in the brain.” Seeking access to a “sweet” clean, mellow sound (but without losing capability to get some bite or grit) that I just can’t get even with the tone rolled way off.

Does anybody know anything about the original pickups? Are they Alnico 5, and if so would an Alnico 2 be more mellow?

I’m thinking of staying with single coil pickups for the moment (might also eventually assemble an entire new rig using rail pickups, coil splitters, etc), but wondering what you all might recommend for drop-in replacements, in particular for the bridge pickup. Antiquity? APS-2? SSL-2? SSL-52? (Not all have sound tracks available on the Seymour Duncan web site.)

Thanks for any suggestions!
CoJo

 

[jeremy]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

welcome to the forum!

the stock fender single coils are a5.

i have a few strats with single coils and my favorite sets are:

ssl2/ssl1/ssl6 - killer strat tone with a little hotter bridge
aps2/aps2/apst1 - alnico II goodness
surfer/surfer/custom texas hot bridge - classic neck and middle with a warmer chewier bridge

i dont think the aps2 or ssl2 would be good bridge options for you. the ssl52 bridge is a cool pup but is still pretty bright, not shrill though.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Welcome!!

A lot of folks here like the ssl 1's (or 2 if you want non-staggered poles) for its sweet tones. Its still an A5 magnet, but the wind gives you a really nice singlecoil tone.

If you want a little less icepick for the bridge pickup then the ssl 5 is pretty good. Thats the model that Dave Gilmour has in the black strat, and is great for taming the highs and adding some girth to your tone without losing all the singlecoil character.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Hi,

I would start playing with your volume on 8 or 9 instead of ten, and I would also wire up your bridge pickup to the middle tone pot. Put a tiny bit of reverb and tremolo on your amp too. If you don't like what the tone knobs do, you can try different caps or different value pots. IME, you can even get a MIM Strat sounding quite sweet with just the tricks I mentioned. But you've gotta rig the thing up so you can make good use of your tone knobs without going into Mudsville.

FWIW, my favorite set of non-antique Strat pickups are from an '80's Strat. Hot and sweet, very "chimey" and "barky." Not sure if they are Japanese or U.S., but they are amazing.

 

[CoJo]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Hey thanks Jeremy and AlexR, for helping me get started with some pickup choices. Your feedback leads me to ask a really basic question (that shows my ignorance …): what is the rationale for choosing flat versus staggered pole pieces? The stock pickups on my strat do not have staggered pole pieces, so I just assumed that flat would be better for me. But now I wonder, Jeremy, when you recommend against an SSL-2 or an APS-2 for my bridge pickup whether you might recommend differently (more along the lines of AlexR) about using an SSL-1 or an APS-1?

Also, AlexR, I’m really intrigued by what you say about David Gilmour’s use of the SSL-5. Wow – I’d “settle” for his sound any day! Funny thing is that when I read the description of the pickup on the Seymour Duncan I would never realize that the SSL-5 would, as you say, “tame highs and add girth” (a very neat description – thanks!) You have me intrigued!

Jeremy, may I ask what you mean by “Alnico II goodness ?” I’m thinking less in your face, warmer, but I’m not sure if that’s what you mean.

Finally, thanks much, ItsaBass for the suggestions about how to set my volume and tone controls and amp; I do tend to keep the guitar volume well below 10. I guess I should have mentioned that my guitar is wired so that the lower tone pot controls both the middle and bridge pickups, so the bridge pickup isn’t running wide open as it does on some vintage-wired strats. So I’m complaining about the bridge being too bright even when I roll off the tone. By the way, the guitar has a TBX tone control on the middle and bridge pickups; I never set it above 5, and I’m wondering whether I should ditch it. Also, some time back I changed the cap to a larger value (.047 uf as I recall) to try to bleed off more treble; I need to get in there and look again.

 

[Despair]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Seymour Duncan has a lot of great options. If you don't like hum, the STK-S6 Custom Stack Plus (noiseless take on SSL-6), STK-S4 Classic Stack Plus (noiseless equivalent of SSL-2) and STK-S7 Hot Vintage Stack Plus (no direct noisy equiv) is a popular combo.

Note that the SSL-5 & SSL-6 are the same pickup, just vintage stagger vs flat versions.

On guitars with a fairly flat fretboard (12" or higher radius), I'd go with flat.

The Five-Two set has it's fans as well, combination of wirey A5 low strings with smoother high strings is really nice. Some people like an all around warmer bridge pickup like the SSL-6 (or 5) Custom with them.

Twang Banger also has it's fans, for a bit of tele flavor (though some feel it doesn't sound very much like a tele without the rest of the tele construction).

No shortage of choices, really depends on what you want out of the guitar.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

The staggered poles are great for vintage fretboard radius (7 1/2") but the current 9 1/2" on modern strats doesn't need the higher magnets for middle strings as they are close enough anyhow.

I've found stock Fender pickups to be thin and plinky, whereas the ssl 1's are much more rounded with depth you don't get from non-vintage pickups. One of John Frusciate's 60's strat pickups died - he had it opened up and to his surprise he saw it had an ssl 1 in the neck already.

I'm not sure about the TBX controls. Personally I'd either go for a stock tone setup or do it like a G&L where the two knobs control treble and bass cut for all pickups.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

the american standard pickups from that era are pretty hot too. I think mine were around the 8k mark, so they are definitely in the overwound category. I know what you mean about the hard/harshness of the top end. My strat plus deluxe has had 7 sets of pickups in it over the years, my american standard i sold a while back had only had the standard set and a set of Texas specials. So ive had a bit to do with swapping pups in those 80s/early90s fenders. Even texas specials were less hot than the american standards.

As far as staggered vs non staggered goes it does not make a big difference with the american standard radius because its neither vintage nor too flat. One thing i experimented with was just firmly but gently pushing on the highly staggered poles in the texas specialsand they just kinda push thru the bobbins till they sit lower, you can always push them back up to original if you dont like it. The set in my strat now is staggered. I keep the heights fairly low and its not really an issue. Im pretty fastidious about set up too.

I really like the regular california set from SD (ssl1, ssl1rwrp, ssl1). Fat and smooth. Much more well mannered than the american standards so they have a much sweeter bell like clean sound. They are all really the same pickup (non calibrated) and people usually wire them vintage style (i.e. no tone control on the bridge pup). The no tone load makes the bridge pup a good deal louder and more present. I have engaged the tone on the birdge and it smooths things off a lot - but at the expense of output. For me, thats fine cos i like the sound, but if you like the harder drive in that position you might want to go for an ssl1,ssl1,ssl5 set. Id say try the ssl1set first and swap out the bridge pup at a later date if you really feel the need.

 

[The Dali]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Another vote for the SSL-1 set. I use a SSL-1 SSL-1 (RW) and a SSL-5 in my US Strat.

 

[Gypsyblue]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Sweeter tone = alnico 2.

SSL-1 is alnico 5 and the classic glassy bright Strat tone you already have. You probably don't want that again - right?

I think flat polepiece Strat pickups have a tone that is not quite as glassy/steely/bright as staggered poles.

For sweeter tone, I would recommend the APS-2. Flat poles and alnico 2.

So: APS-2 for neck. APS-2 RW/RP for middle.

For the bridge pickup how about an alnico 2 TWANGBANGER?

It's Seymour's take on an alnico 2 Tele pickup in a Strat size. It is not glassy bright like you normally think of a Tele lead pickup being. Instead it has smooth highs and thick midrange - and more output than a stock Strat pickup.

So: APS-2/APS-2 RW/RP/Twangbanger.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Hey thanks Jeremy and AlexR, for helping me get started with some pickup choices. Your feedback leads me to ask a really basic question (that shows my ignorance …): what is the rationale for choosing flat versus staggered pole pieces? The stock pickups on my strat do not have staggered pole pieces, so I just assumed that flat would be better for me. But now I wonder, Jeremy, when you recommend against an SSL-2 or an APS-2 for my bridge pickup whether you might recommend differently (more along the lines of AlexR) about using an SSL-1 or an APS-1?

i would use the aps2 or ssl2 in the bridge over the aps1 or ssl1. i dont really care for the tone of a vintage style strat pup in the bridge. too thin for my taste. the flat poles make things a little thicker to my ears so i would use an aps2 over the aps1 if i wanted a vintage wind pup. in general i like flat poles in the neck and bridge with staggered poles in the middle but i dont go out of my way to make that happen.

Jeremy, may I ask what you mean by “Alnico II goodness ?” I’m thinking less in your face, warmer, but I’m not sure if that’s what you mean.

thats exactly what i mean.

By the way, the guitar has a TBX tone control on the middle and bridge pickups; I never set it above 5, and I’m wondering whether I should ditch it. Also, some time back I changed the cap to a larger value (.047 uf as I recall) to try to bleed off more treble; I need to get in there and look again.

ditch the tbx tone control. the cap value only changes the frequency that you start rolling off highs. id keep what you have for now.

 

[loudriver23]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

I have a very bright sounding MIJ strat from about 86-87. I too was a little put off by the brightness of the instrument and looked to tame the beast.
I chose to go with some APS1's, and if I didn't have a PATB-3 in the bridge, I would probably go with the Twangbanger for the bridge.
The A2 mags really do help take some of the edge off the brightness. Also whomever recommended to wire in the bridge pup to the tone control is spot on. I have no idea why it wasn't done this way from the factory.
Good luck.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Sweeter tone = alnico 2.

SSL-1 is alnico 5 and the classic glassy bright Strat tone you already have. You probably don't want that again - right?

ssl1s and american standard pickups are very different. One is smooth and fat with plenty of clarity , the other is bright and hot with an agressive clanging midrange.
For example...american standards are actually hotter than texas specials, and their sound is easily recognizable - agressive mids. The am stds have more output and a much more present bass than the t specs. IN comparison, t specs sound more vintage and sweeter - which is not how most ppl would describe them eh?
The american standard guitars came out in the mid 80s - when pretty much every man and their dog was going for hotter pickups than vintage. The pickups in these axes can quite comfortably match vintage humbuckers for output...which is cool if thats what you are after, but they are in no way a vintage sounding strat pickup. They are loud, bold and brash. Good for overdriving a marshall, but definitely not the clear bell like tone of vintage strat pickups.
The ssl1s would most closely resemble the fender fat 50s set - but a little wider sounding.

 

[CoJo]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Hey folks … you guys rock! Great thread! I’m sorry I didn’t think to post here a long time ago.

One of the most valuable pieces of feedback I’ve gotten is confirmation that my mid-80s American Standard stock pups are aggressive bordering on brash, certainly not full, warm, or sweet. Sounds like a shared experience. OK, it’s not my poor ability to get a sound! Thank you!

For those of you who recommend either SSL-1/2 or APS-1/2, thanks for the confirmation that either way will be an improvement; in particular, thanks for letting me know that the SSL-1/2s won’t be harsh like my stock pups.

It’s clear that I’m converging on one of a couple of starting points: SSL-2s or APS-2s, with several pretty interesting additional variants for the bridge pup (SSL-5, Twangbanger, custom texas hot …). When I listen to the handful of sound clips on the SD web site, interestingly I kinda like the sound of the APS-1 in the bridge position, but I might prefer the bottom end of the SSL-1 in the other positions. So I probably need to think through whether I want to start with Alnico 5 or Alnico 2, and then adjust course from there. (Maybe even SSL2/SSL2/APS2 for openers ....) Probably no substitute for trying and hearing and learning by doing, but you guys have given me lots of help with where to start, and then what to try. Really, much appreciated.

By the way, again, guitar is already wired with tone control on both bridge and middle pups. Will keep it that way since I’m used to it and like being able to roll off the highs. Will ditch TBX in new rig.

Will also keep reading posts, if any, on this thread, and on other threads. I'm learning a lot and starting to get psyched up by the possibilities.

Thanks all!

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

yeh - tbx is a gimmick.
btw.....you will soom end up like the rest of the dudes here and become OCD about pickup possibilities.

 

[house]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

So, you have chosen the Blue pill. Now your journey to seek out tonal divinity can begin...

 

[CoJo]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Hello again –

I have a follow-up question in my quest for a sweeter sound. Lots of helpful posts here have focused me on SSL-1/2’s and or APS-1/2’s, as well as several additional choices for the bridge pup.

But what about Antiquity Surfers? Given what I’m looking for (much warmer, less ice-picky tone than my stock American Standard pups), how do the Antiquities compare with the SSL-1’s? I’ve been reading old posts and came across one, somewhere, that described the Antiquities something along the lines of “take 100 SSL-1's and select the best one ….”.

Any opinions on the Antiquities versus the SSLs, in particular in the neck and middle positions?

Thanks!

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

BKP Apaches with a baseplate for the bridge pickups. (they're Alnico 3)

Too many people neglect or simply don't know the advantage of baseplates ... a very cheap tweak that can make a big difference to a Strat bridge pickup, and thus the entire set.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

i have not tried surfers
but everyone here who has raves about them!

 

[Sludig]

Re: Sweeter Pickups for Original American Standard Strat

Hello, I've got SSL-1 which comes from SSL-1 set. I't is pickup from bridge position pf set. Can I put it in neck position (are both pickups - ssl-1 from neck and middle position the same ). What do you think . It is a big problem for me.