Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

[Jeff5]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Rectos are great amps and definitely have a distinct sound. There are some qualities that you cannot dial out of them, and if you are really after any Marshallesque tones, then it is not for you. However, they are extremely versatile, despite the fact that many hard rock and metal players use them. At least on the reborn, the clean and in between tones are excellent.

Regarding looseness, I feel this is more due to technique and EQ. If you EQ the amp right and have solid palm mute technique, it really isn't that loose. A Maxon 808 (I use this) helps a ton too. Rectos have a sort of fizz to them but, at least on the Reborn, it's dialed down a lot. The amp does sound BIG, even bloated at times, but again that is due to the lower mod focus and how it is voiced. It doesn't necessarily mean it's too loose.

Everyone should try or own a Dual rec once in their life =D. It's an "event" paired with an oversized Mesa cab, EQ in the loop and Maxon, when you palm mute and the neighbors can feel the thump lol.

 

[chadd]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Rectos are great amps and definitely have a distinct sound. There are some qualities that you cannot dial out of them, and if you are really after any Marshallesque tones, then it is not for you. However, they are extremely versatile, despite the fact that many hard rock and metal players use them. At least on the reborn, the clean and in between tones are excellent.

Regarding looseness, I feel this is more due to technique and EQ. If you EQ the amp right and have solid palm mute technique, it really isn't that loose. A Maxon 808 (I use this) helps a ton too. Rectos have a sort of fizz to them but, at least on the Reborn, it's dialed down a lot. The amp does sound BIG, even bloated at times, but again that is due to the lower mod focus and how it is voiced. It doesn't necessarily mean it's too loose.

Everyone should try or own a Dual rec once in their life =D. It's an "event" paired with an oversized Mesa cab, EQ in the loop and Maxon, when you palm mute and the neighbors can feel the thump lol.

With EL34s they sound much more Marshall-ish. I think you hit the nail on the head with the thing about the EQ. To get tighter low end, you don't turn up the bass and that screws up a lot of people. There is a learning curve when it comes to using the Mesa tone controls and a lot of people get frustrated that they don't work the way other amps do.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

With EL34s they sound much more Marshall-ish.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the thing about the EQ.
To get tighter low end, you don't turn up the bass and that screws up a lot of people.
There is a learning curve when it comes to using the Mesa tone controls and a lot of people get frustrated that they don't work the way other amps do.

Are Mesa's Baxandall EQ'ed amps ?

 

[dystrust]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Are Mesa's Baxandall EQ'ed amps ?

Mesas don't use Baxandall EQ. I'm not 100% sure on the Mark V and Rectos, but the Mark I-IV are derived from a Blackface Fender instead of Tweed in Marshall's case, so the tone stack acts a bit differently. Playing with humbuckers through one of those amps, the bass can get overbearing if it's set higher than 3 to maybe 5 at the most. Rectos aren't quite in the same ballpark, but the response definitely gets loose if the bass is set any higher than it needs to be. Setting the rectifier to 'silicon' and power to 'bold' also helps tighten things up.

 

[chadd]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Are Mesa's Baxandall EQ'ed amps ?

I don't know what the official designation is for them. However, they do appear to function more interactively than a standard EQ/tone stack.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

I don't know what the official designation is for them. However, they do appear to function more interactively than a standard EQ/tone stack.

Thanks - good to know !

When ever the funds allow, i would love to get an Electra Dyne.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Are Mesa's Baxandall EQ'ed amps ?

No, but Mesa did design them to be interactive.

The simple version is, Rectifiers have two midrange knobs and no treble control. The "treble" knob affects the high mids, from about 578Hz to around 1.3kHz. The "midrange" knob affects the majority of the midrange, from about 300Hz to around 1.5kHz.

You'll notice they overlap. This causes the treble and mid knob to interact and sweeping the treble knob will increase/decrease the amount of signal present in the upper mids, which will shift where the knee/peak is in the midrange, which is why adjusting the treble on a Recto has such an impact on the overall voice of the amp, and why the treble knob kind of acts like a secondary gain control once you get it up high enough.

Frequencies above 1.6kHz are attenuated via an RC filter. "Presence" affects high end, but it does so by varying the amount of negative feedback from the power amp.

The exception to the above is in Modern mode. In Modern mode there is no negative feedback loop, so Mesa turned the "presence" control is a treble control. It functions as a variable resistor within the RC filter network mentioned above, where it affects how much the frequencies above 1.6kHz are attenuated.

The bass knob is the one knob that behaves like you'd expect. All it does is attenuate frequencies below about 300Hz.

 

[Surgeon]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

See, that's why I think you're such a goldmine... I've worked my rectoverb series 1 a lot and I'm familiar with the EQ interaction and I get my amp to sound as I want but still, I had no idea that the frequencies overlapped between the mids and high knobs.
Thank you.

 

[SirJackdeFuzz]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

No, but Mesa did design them to be interactive.

The simple version is, Rectifiers have two midrange knobs and no treble control. The "treble" knob affects the high mids, from about 578Hz to around 1.3kHz. The "midrange" knob affects the majority of the midrange, from about 300Hz to around 1.5kHz.

You'll notice they overlap. This causes the treble and mid knob to interact and sweeping the treble knob will increase/decrease the amount of signal present in the upper mids, which will shift where the knee/peak is in the midrange, which is why adjusting the treble on a Recto has such an impact on the overall voice of the amp, and why the treble knob kind of acts like a secondary gain control once you get it up high enough.

Frequencies above 1.6kHz are attenuated via an RC filter. "Presence" affects high end, but it does so by varying the amount of negative feedback from the power amp.

The exception to the above is in Modern mode. In Modern mode there is no negative feedback loop, so Mesa turned the "presence" control is a treble control. It functions as a variable resistor within the RC filter network mentioned above, where it affects how much the frequencies above 1.6kHz are attenuated.

The bass knob is the one knob that behaves like you'd expect. All it does is attenuate frequencies below about 300Hz.

BRILLIANT explanation . . . thank you very much !


Is this interactive EQ valid through out the entire Mesa series ?
Or only on some models ?

I am looking into an Electra Dyne, and hopefully, will have one in the next 24 months or so.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

No, but Mesa did design them to be interactive.

The simple version is, Rectifiers have two midrange knobs and no treble control. The "treble" knob affects the high mids, from about 578Hz to around 1.3kHz. The "midrange" knob affects the majority of the midrange, from about 300Hz to around 1.5kHz.

You'll notice they overlap. This causes the treble and mid knob to interact and sweeping the treble knob will increase/decrease the amount of signal present in the upper mids, which will shift where the knee/peak is in the midrange, which is why adjusting the treble on a Recto has such an impact on the overall voice of the amp, and why the treble knob kind of acts like a secondary gain control once you get it up high enough.

Frequencies above 1.6kHz are attenuated via an RC filter. "Presence" affects high end, but it does so by varying the amount of negative feedback from the power amp.

The exception to the above is in Modern mode. In Modern mode there is no negative feedback loop, so Mesa turned the "presence" control is a treble control. It functions as a variable resistor within the RC filter network mentioned above, where it affects how much the frequencies above 1.6kHz are attenuated.

The bass knob is the one knob that behaves like you'd expect. All it does is attenuate frequencies below about 300Hz.

See, that's why I think you're such a goldmine... I've worked my rectoverb series 1 a lot and I'm familiar with the EQ interaction and I get my amp to sound as I want but still, I had no idea that the frequencies overlapped between the mids and high knobs.
Thank you.

Are the mid / treble controls implemented as band pass or low pass filters? A true midrange control is a band pass and affects only a specific frequency range, whereas a treble control is a low pass filter that affects everything above a certain cutoff (though it may not be shelving). A Tweed Bassman has no real midrange control, instead it has two treble (low pass) controls; the one with the lower cutoff is labeled "middle". It's my understanding that Marshall copied this "feature", though I could be mistaken. I've always thought that the EQ on a Recto acted a lot more like a Marshall than their Mark series amps, and some_dude's post seems to explain why.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

BRILLIANT explanation . . . thank you very much !


Is this interactive EQ valid through out the entire Mesa series ?
Or only on some models ?

I am looking into an Electra Dyne, and hopefully, will have one in the next 24 months or so.

Honestly, im not sure which models behave this way and which don't.

I suspect that most do, but the details of what frequency band they act upon varies by model.

I'm not even sure how the EQ on my Electra-Dyne behaves as outside of slight tweaks I haven't changed the settings in 5 or so years.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Are the mid / treble controls implemented as band pass or low pass filters? A true midrange control is a band pass and affects only a specific frequency range, whereas a treble control is a low pass filter that affects everything above a certain cutoff (though it may not be shelving). A Tweed Bassman has no real midrange control, instead it has two treble (low pass) controls; the one with the lower cutoff is labeled "middle". It's my understanding that Marshall copied this "feature", though I could be mistaken. I've always thought that the EQ on a Recto acted a lot more like a Marshall than their Mark series amps, and some_dude's post seems to explain why.

Im pretty sure both are bandpass. The RC filter is low pass.

A Mark's EQ is more Fender like and located before the distortion (after the input stage on a Mark I and after the first gain stage in Marks II-IV). It has limited effect on how the amp sounds but a significant effect on how the amp feels, particularly at higher gain settings. They eventually added a post distortion graphic EQ to give people more control over how the amp actually sounds.

A Recto's EQ is after all the distortion, like on a Marshall.

 

[J E C]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Good info some_dude. I have a Mark V head with a 2x12 Recto cab. I've got a sound I like from Ch 1 and 3 but not Ch2 yet. I need to spend a LOT more time with this thing as far as adjusting it and learning it.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

With EL34s they sound much more Marshall-ish. I think you hit the nail on the head with the thing about the EQ. To get tighter low end, you don't turn up the bass and that screws up a lot of people. There is a learning curve when it comes to using the Mesa tone controls and a lot of people get frustrated that they don't work the way other amps do.

Agree with you about the EL34 and Marshall type tones. However, I didn't like mine at all with EL34's. Just didn't sound..."right". 6L6s just felt better with this amp.

 

[El Dunco]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Im pretty sure both are bandpass. The RC filter is low pass.

A Mark's EQ is more Fender like and located before the distortion (after the input stage on a Mark I and after the first gain stage in Marks II-IV). It has limited effect on how the amp sounds but a significant effect on how the amp feels, particularly at higher gain settings.

That's why people don't like the gain channel on "The Twin" reverb because they don't know that. You pull out the boosts on the mid and treble and turn the bass down before the gain stage to get a tight, cutting distortion and use the presence knob for the global EQ or throw a graphic/parametric in the loop.

 

[chadd]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Agree with you about the EL34 and Marshall type tones. However, I didn't like mine at all with EL34's. Just didn't sound..."right". 6L6s just felt better with this amp.

Most people that want Recto tone, don't like them with EL34s. It's just amazing how much you can tweak these amps, if you really want to get into it.

If my buddy can convince me to sell him my Roadster, I may buy a Road King and use both types of power tubes at the same time.

 

[some_dude]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Good info some_dude. I have a Mark V head with a 2x12 Recto cab. I've got a sound I like from Ch 1 and 3 but not Ch2 yet. I need to spend a LOT more time with this thing as far as adjusting it and learning it.

Check out Mesa's youtube channel and go through all the Mark V/Mark V:25 demos. They show the settings used during the demo. When I get stuck I use them as a base to experiment from and have discovered a lot of new sounds that way.

My problem was that for a long time I kept trying to dial in channel 2 like it was a Boogie (bass low, boost with graphic, lots of treble/presence). What I learned from watching the videos is that Edge and Crunch modes dial in more like a Marshall, and if you don't use the graphic/preset EQ they balance better with channel 3.

 

[J E C]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Hay, that's great some_dude, I will check that out.
Right now I am running #1 in clean, normal, 90w, graph pre set, and diode. #2 in crunch, Mk I thick, 45w, sliders, and diode. #3 in Mk IV, normal, 45w, sliders and pentode. I also have a little reverb adjusted in on all three. Then I'm using a Marshall Power Brake. That way I load up the power section a bit and I can raise and lower the overall volume with one knob instead of adjusting thee.

 

[Jeff5]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

Most people that want Recto tone, don't like them with EL34s. It's just amazing how much you can tweak these amps, if you really want to get into it.

If my buddy can convince me to sell him my Roadster, I may buy a Road King and use both types of power tubes at the same time.

I had EL34/6L6 combo in my 2:90 power amp when I had one. Now THAT I did like. Sounded great.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Talk to me About Mesa Boogie Rectifier amps

I had EL34/6L6 combo in my 2:90 power amp when I had one. Now THAT I did like. Sounded great.

It's not quite the same, but I had a Simul 395 for a while and officially it only supported 4 6L6s per side. It's widely known that EL-34s work in the class A sockets (as long as they're not too tall) and that was my favorite configuration. The cleans weren't quite as clean as running all 6L6s, but the overall response was much more like playing through an amp head instead of a rack. Sometimes I wish I still had it, but it's a bit loud for small venues and d*** was that thing HEAVY.