Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

[AniML]

I have built an Esquire with a tapped pickup (Zhang Paul Bunyan / Bell Tone) and I have wired it for now with the Seymour Duncan "Signature Esquire" scheme: http://cdn.seymourduncan.com/pdfs/support/schematics/swd_sign_esquire.pdf

^^ This is essentially an Esquire with the Eldred mod, but with the tone pot in circuit. Even though I've tried several cap values, the Eldred mod really doesn't do anything for me, it just sounds like the simple filter that it is. I find the Arlo circuit has much more of a notable wah character.

What I would really like to do is the following:

Pos 1 - Full pickup with vol and tone
Pos 2 - Tapped pickup with vol and tone
Pos 3 - Tapped pickup with vol and arlo cocked wah, ideally with tone out of circuit

I have not been able to find a diagram that provides this or gets me close enough to make modifications, nor have I been able to come up with anything on my own

I know I could put the Arlo circuit on a push-pull and be done with it (I've done in a 2 pickup / 4 way switch Tele), but I would prefer to keep it Esquire-simple and not add another switch. If I am asking too much from a 3 way switch, this is the route I will take.

If anyone could refer me to a diagram or whip something up, I would be grateful

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

I'd be happy to chew on this, but I'm not sure what the "arlo" circuit is. Do you have a link?

Edit: I've found several references on Google, but they aren't all identical. I'll get started, but if you could point to the exact one that you're interested in, that would help.

 

[AniML]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Thanks Artie. Schematically, the Arlo cocked wah is the same as an Esquire bass circuit, but different value components

Given that standard Esquire wiring uses the common lug for the pickup hot lead, the problem I am having is getting both pickup taps, tone and the additional circuit onto a 3 way switch. I realize the volume can connect to the common, but then how do I isolate the full and tapped leads while still providing the tone pot to both?

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Ok, but just to be clear, . . . you want the three positions that you stated in your 1st post?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

That SD diagram is not the Eldred wiring. All that SD diagram does is to give you the same effect as rolling a tone pot with a .022uF cap on it all the way down. No wonder you didn't like it.

What you want should be easy to figure out if you just think about it a bit. I will try to sketch something up, though I will have to do it on paper and take a bad computer pic of it, as I don't have a drawing program.

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

I'm almost there. One little "bug" to work out. I'll work on it at work tonight and post something tonight. (If someone else doesn't beat me to it.)

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Here is my stab at it. Haven't tried it yet, but seems like it should give you:

1 (toward bridge): Full output with volume and tone pot.
2 (middle): Tapped output with volume and tone pot.
3 (toward neck): Tapped output through fixed tone cap (Eldred), but not the tone pot.

If you'd prefer the Arlo wiring, replace the wah cap with a 3.3K resistor in series with a .01uF cap, and run to ground a 4700pF (.0047uF) cap off of the 3rd switch lug from the bottom on the left side of the switch in the picture above – the same one to which the tapped lead is connected.

It's not the way I'd do it, but there it is, as you asked for it. I would personally just wire it like a cocked wah Esquire (Eldred or Arlo), and give the tap its own separate switch. That would alloy you to use any of the three switch positions either tapped or using the full coil. Not only does that wiring give you all possible options (six of them), but it involves a more logical thought process to use, IMHO.

Given that standard Esquire wiring uses the common lug for the pickup hot lead, the problem I am having is getting both pickup taps, tone and the additional circuit onto a 3 way switch. I realize the volume can connect to the common, but then how do I isolate the full and tapped leads while still providing the tone pot to both?

The key to the puzzle is in realizing that these blade switches are really just two switches sharing the same assembly. You can choose to keep the two switches completely independent, choose to keep them completely paired, or choose which positions pair the two switches, and which do not. In this wiring, pairing positions (via a jumper) leads to the activation of the tone pot, and keeping positions independent (via omitting a jumper) does not allow the tone pot to work. Jumpers in the rear and middle positions activate the tone control. But there is no jumper for the front position, therefore no tone control.

 

[AniML]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

That SD diagram is not the Eldred wiring. All that SD diagram does is to give you the same effect as rolling a tone pot with a .022uF cap on it all the way down. No wonder you didn't like it.

What you want should be easy to figure out if you just think about it a bit. I will try to sketch something up, though I will have to do it on paper and take a bad computer pic of it, as I don't have a drawing program.

I tried several smaller value caps to ground. I agree the .022 as the SD diagram shows is mud and the other values just gave me less mud. I do see the key difference in the use of the cap to ground vs in the signal path.

As an side do you personally hear much difference between the simple Eldred cap and the use of the RC circuit in the arlo circuit?

Thanks!

...

It's not the way I'd do it, but there it is, as you asked for it. I would personally just wire it like a cocked wah Esquire (Eldred or Arlo), and give the tap its own separate switch. That would alloy you to use any of the three switch positions either tapped or using the full coil. Not only does that wiring give you all possible options (six of them), but it involves a more logical thought process to use, IMHO.

Makes a lot of sense, I'm arguably being stubborn trying to avoid introducing another switch - and maybe shooting myself in the foot by restricting my options

...
The key to the puzzle is in realizing that these blade switches are really just two switches sharing the same assembly. You can choose to keep the two switches completely independent, choose to keep them completely paired, or choose which positions pair the two switches, and which do not. In this wiring, pairing positions (via a jumper) leads to the activation of the tone pot, and keeping positions independent (via omitting a jumper) does not allow the tone pot to work. Jumpers in the rear and middle positions activate the tone control. But there is no jumper for the front position, therefore no tone control.

I am to the point that I understand how the switches can work independently or together. I can read a drawing such as you provided, but it's the circuit design and implementation that I am still trying to grasp. Case in point and a key part of your solution is I would never in a million years have thought to put the tone pot on the common lug and leave it open as you have when the wah is engaged, even though putting the volume there is very familiar to me

I'm going to go and digest this, and see if Artie perhaps comes up with anything different. At the same time I owe it to myself to rethink adding the push pull to allow for all options. Interestingly, I was envisioning a push pull being used for tone pot vs arlo -- different than your suggestion of full vs tapped, but I think functionally puts us in the same place since the blade switch would provide for the other

Thanks once again

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

It's not the way I'd do it, but there it is, as you asked for it. I would personally just wire it like a cocked wah Esquire (Eldred or Arlo), and give the tap its own separate switch. That would alloy you to use any of the three switch positions either tapped or using the full coil. Not only does that wiring give you all possible options (six of them), but it involves a more logical thought process to use, IMHO.

I have to agree with this. It's what I'd do. But it is your guitar.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Don't get too exited. My diagram is wrong. Corrected diagram coming up...

 

[AniML]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Don't get too exited. My diagram is wrong. Corrected diagram coming up...

Hmmm. Trying to find the glitch. Can't see anything wrong.

At the same time I am having a hard time trying to justify not doing it with a push pull. I need to get off the Esquire simplicity soapbox -- I already broke the rules with a tapped pickup

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

I made an obvious mistake 'cause I was moving too fast. I didn't send the cocked wah cap's output to ground. I just put it in there as in in-line filter, which does not work the same way. Sounds like an easy fix, but after trying some things, I see that it opens a can of worms, and will require a very different approach to wiring the switch. After much erasing and much cursing, please let this one be correct...

I'm sure I'm not better at this than you are. I don't know jack about electronics. I just have a pencil and paper (and an eraser – ha!), and I'm trying different things.

 

[AniML]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

I'm sure I'm not better at this than you are. I don't know jack about electronics. I just have a pencil and paper (and an eraser – ha!), and I'm trying different things.

The humility is appreciated, though you are clearly ahead of me on the design side. I like this with pup signal on one side, tone options on the other / bridged via common -- very clean and concise. I think that is similar to a diagram I started with.

I got stumped when I tried to expand the fixed cap to the arlo circuit since the signal has to run through the resistor and cap in series - only on pos #3. This is what led me to suspect that maybe a 3 way switch is inadequate -- and why I need to get over the idea of polluting the relative simplicity of an Esquire and use a push pull. Idealism aside, the P-P is a win-win

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

I didn't read through all this but IMHO wiring it with a push/pull coil tap then using whatever type of Esquire mod you want is a much better way I think!

I ran my tapped Tele coil in a Tele for years with the taps on the blade switch, it was MUCH better when I went to a push/pull and then a more typical blade set up.

If you want a GREAT push pull pot buy the DiMarzio....they are made by CTS, have a good taper and a high quality switch.

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Hey Itsabass; Here's the problems I see in your two diagrams. The 1st doesn't have the .005uf cap to ground. I think you caught that, but then omitted the .01uf and resistor, in the 2nd diagram. Also, both of these leave the "full" side of the pickup coil hanging out, unterminated, on the "hot" side of the circuit. This could be a huge noise source in the right environment.

Whenever I use the tap on a pup, I either short the tap to ground or hot. That way, you eliminate the noise antenna.

I've almost got this, but not quite yet. If I solve my last bug, I'll post it when I get home.

Artie

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Ok, I got it, but I can't post the diagram 'til I get home from work.
So . . . film at eleven.

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Here's the quik-'n-dirty version until I can make the fancy, hi-graphics version: (Ignore the red "optional" link for a moment.)

Hopefully, it's fairly easy to see what I'm doing here. I use one wafer of the 3-way to switch between full/tapped/tapped-with-Arlo, and the other wafer to select grounding of the tone circuit or the Arlo cap. It doesn't matter whether you disconnect the tone circuit from the "hot" side or the ground side. But it gives us the ability to "ground" the Arlo cap.

The only "bug" in the ointment here, is that we run into precisely the problem that I hate . . . we leave the one half of the pickup hanging out on the "hot" side of the circuit when in the tapped mode. I don't like doing this but we're limited by the switch. It might work out ok. Maybe.

Enter the "optional" jumper. If you get excessive noise in the tapped modes, solder a jumper across the two terminals of the 3-way where the red line is. This won't affect anything in the first two switch positions. In the "Arlo" mode, it will place the other half of the pickup back into the circuit, but, hopefully, at a reduced level, by virtue of the RC components of the Arlo circuit. What I would do is, bring two wires out from under the control plate, and solder them to a simple SPST on-off switch which is connected where the red line is. Try it both ways and see what works for you. The "RT2" Arlo mode might just work out great. :cool2:

Maybe.

Artie

P.S. The idea of bringing the two wires out to a SPST switch is just a momentary, experimental thing. You remove this once you determine if you want the jumper in place or not.

 

[AniML]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Artie, thanks for this. I am not as able to read a technical schematic such as this as I am a component diagram, but I am trying to work through it. One initial question.. What is the "D" shaped symbol connected under the left side of the optional red line? I see one also appears towards the bottom. Are these switch lugs?

 

[Artie]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Thats supposed to be the "arrow" that signifies the moving switch blade. It goes up to the next "dot", or down to the lower "dot". The two arms move together. I'm an "Art". Not an artist.

I'm going to try to get you a better diagram before the weeks over. They just take more time.

Artie

 

[zebraprs]

Re: Tapped Esquire wiring I can't seem to find or solve

Thanks Artie. Schematically, the Arlo cocked wah is the same as an Esquire bass circuit, but different value components

Given that standard Esquire wiring uses the common lug for the pickup hot lead, the problem I am having is getting both pickup taps, tone and the additional circuit onto a 3 way switch. I realize the volume can connect to the common, but then how do I isolate the full and tapped leads while still providing the tone pot to both?

I just built an Esquire and have been looking for this diagram.. I have the Mike Eldred wiring but the front position is way too dark.. I am looking for a setting similar to a tone control set around half way.. I guess that is what I consider Cocked Wah.. I will try this mod and post my results.