Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

[Lovegun]

Well I know about the middle positions on a strat and what sounds to expect from them. My knoledge about the middle position on a H-H guitar is limited to the Woman Tone (Slash/Clapton). Or is it just the neck tone rolled back? Then there's the Peter Green out of phase thing, but that is something different wiring/ magnets out phase. Could you give me examples of songs where the middle position is used. What players use it regularly? How do you use it? More bass to the bridge pickup or more treble to the neck pickup? Do you use it for cleans or distorted tones. I have tried using the middle position, but can't get the hang of it.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I can't really point you to specific examples. I tend to stick with a few main settings in my Les Pauls, but they vary from one to another because the guitars have different characters and different pickups. Most often I have the bridge on full and the neck rolled back a little, maybe to 7 or 8. That's usually where I keep my neck pickups except when using them for a lead. But there's a wide variety of tones available in middle position. That subtlety of balance adjustment is one area where Gibsons have a real advantage over Fenders & most PRSs. You can really shade your tones in a completely different way with a four knob guitar. It's a difference of state rather than just one of degree.

IMO for feeling it out at first probably the best place to start is both volumes full up. (I'm assuming here that we're talkiig LP type wiring where you have individual volume controls, otherwise you have no way of adjusting the balance other than pickup model & height adjustments.) Once you get an idea of how your two pickups sound & feel with the volume knobs set equal, then you can experiment with backing off one at a time in small increments. There are a lot of textures to be had, but the settings are very much dependent on the two pickups in question. If you have a Pearly Gates set, for instance, you'll have a brighter than average bridge and a warmer PAF type neck that will combine to give you a singlecoil-like quality in the middle position when they're about equal. This is a tone I'm told Billy Gibbons uses a lot- some of his stuff that sounds almost like a Tele is said to have been played on his old Les Paul, the one the Pearly Gates pickups were modeled after. If you have a JB/Jazz set, they will have a totally different character when combined and it's also going to take different volume settings to balance them because of the powerful bridge. Placement of the neck humbucker in various models makes a difference too- it tends to be bassier & woodier sounding in Les Pauls than it is in SGs or 24-fret guitars.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I know its there, but ive never found a use for it that the neck or bridge didn't do better.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I like two singles together (Tele style,) two humbucker sound flabby and honky. Useful if you need to go clean though. Not ideal.

 

[BriGuy1968]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I like it for cleans in order to get a little more high-end response than I would get from just the neck pickup alone (not crazy about bridge pickups for cleans). I have also found times for using it dirty when you want a little less edge than the bridge pick up tends to give you, but still don’t want it quite is fat as the neck pickup.

This may sound like an obvious statement, but it truly is a sound “in between.“

 

[Synapsys]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

Actually my favorite position is in my Tele (Hot Stack bridge, A2Pro neck), in the middle with both pickups in parallel. Don't know why, but it gives something else my HH guitars don't give.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I don't like 2 humbuckers together, but I do like 2 humbuckers with the outer or inner coils selected- if you flip a magnet, it is still hum cancelling, and you get a usable 3rd sound there.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I wire my guitars for independent volume controls, so I can dial in as much, or as little, of each PU as I want. This makes the middle position very useful. I like to roll down the neck volume a couple notches and use that for rhythm, and flip the toggle to the bridge for solos (bridge volume on 10). And in the middle, I get a fuller, louder sound, also good for solos. Not a big fan of both PU's on at full volume in the middle position, as parallel wiring make it sound neutered.

I also like to wire neck HB's for spin-a-split, which gives a number of increments for blending unbalanced coils, both with the PU by itself, and when combined with the bridge PU.

To me, standard factory wiring on guitars is archaic and lacking in versatility. It's like the least amount of effort they can possibly make. With independent wiring and spin-a-split, I get many different tones. Best thing is, they use existing parts, as all you're doing is moving wires.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I do this:

I often use it the two-on position for an "Instant Clean"

In most circuits (meaning Les Paul to me) if you have two volumes and you have one of them off when both pickups are "on" you get no sound. Then, you add just a little bit of say the neck pickup. What you get is a fairly quiet/clean sound when running through a distorted amp. You don't have to find/futz with the volume to get it. Just flip the switch and BAM - there is your cleans. Then flick the switch and right back to roar.

The both on position really shines when crafting clean sounds, IMO.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

The middle position is clucky.......nothing to do with either Slash's tone (the neck pickup) or Clapton's Woman tone (bridge, tone rolled back).
Think of intro to Octopus' Garden
Intro to Since I've been loving you by Led Zep
Black Dog live sounds like middle too.

 

[Jacew]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I can't really point you to specific examples. I tend to stick with a few main settings in my Les Pauls, but they vary from one to another because the guitars have different characters and different pickups. Most often I have the bridge on full and the neck rolled back a little, maybe to 7 or 8. That's usually where I keep my neck pickups except when using them for a lead. But there's a wide variety of tones available in middle position. That subtlety of balance adjustment is one area where Gibsons have a real advantage over Fenders & most PRSs. You can really shade your tones in a completely different way with a four knob guitar. It's a difference of state rather than just one of degree.

Adding separate volumes for neck/middle and bridge is the best mod I've done to a strat. I consider it "must-have" mod these days.

They really should make that stock thing in some of their guitars.

Bridge spiced with about 30-40 % neck produces really smooth singing lead tone.

 

[Silence Kid]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

Yes, a lot of Zeppelin sounds like H+H to my ears. That said, I never really got why people aspire toward Page's tone. Always comes across as very wiry/thin, or else congested and brittle. Not a very compatible tone with overdrive/distortion to my ears but as mentioned, can be useful in a pinch to clean up a bit.

 

[Lovegun]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

Thanks for the replies guys:yourock:. I have three H-H guitars, one only with vol and tone, one with 2 vol and 2 tones mini humbuckers and one with 2 vol and 2 tones with coil tap. I have been a bridge or neck pickup guy this far on these guitars. So I'm starting to learn the middle position to get more sounds out of these guitars.

 

[greekdude]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

For me, tele HH middle, differs from strat HSH B-N together (no middle pup) which in turn differs from LP, but Strat B-N is still closer to tele mid than LP mid . Distance between B - N pups, construction, woods, and of course pups, all play their role.
Up to now the most epic HH mid tone i get from this configuration :
- Ibanez ARZ800 all mahogany setin neck, 25" scale, EMG 81/60. In mid position with tone turned to 5, I get the best cleans ever. Great for jazz/blues.

 

[Coma]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

Yes, a lot of Zeppelin sounds like H+H to my ears. That said, I never really got why people aspire toward Page's tone.

Agree. Never saw the appeal.




Anyhow, generally I've never found much use for both humbuckers on, neither in clean nor dirty mode. I have however at one point recorded a solo with bridge tone open all the way and neck tone rolled all the way down. Made for an interesting tone similar to woman tone, but with more bite. These days I wouldn't do that, though. Got a better neck pup and I just solo with that and tone open all the way.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I use it for a big clean/light breakup tone by keeping both pickups around 75% and it makes the sound a little nasally and hollow but I find it interesting and pretty balanced, and I pick above the neck pickup but below the body/neck joint, to get that deeper rounder more-bell-like attack. This into a clean or lightly breaking up amp. Little more treble pickup if the amp and room are kinda boomy, favoring the neck pickup a little more for really clean sounds.

The sound I'm going for is like Keith Richard's 355, I dunno if he uses the middle position to get this kind of sound or not, but the above is the closest my Les Paul gets to that sound.

https://youtu.be/CVPnbOFJzFo

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

I admit that I haven't read any of the responses to your post and maybe someone has already said what I'm going to say.

The sound of the middle position is totally dependent upon which pups you have in the neck and bridge and their relative balance. Asking what you have asked is like asking..."what does a bridge pup sound like".

 

[Lovegun]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

The sound of the middle position is totally dependent upon which pups you have in the neck and bridge and their relative balance. Asking what you have asked is like asking..."what does a bridge pup sound like".

Well the same could be said about strat pickup positions and there's alot of threads about them. I'm not asking for a specific tone of anyone. Just trying to get tips on how I could use the middle position more usefully.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

Big clean - YEAH! GREAT ON/ON SOUND.

 

[AlexR]

Re: Teach me about the middle position on a H-H guitar

Adding to what Doc was saying.......some pickups will have this great honky thing going on in the middle, others will just sound flat and boring. You can try and play around with heights and volumes, but if it doesn't have it then adjustments won't do much.