Tell me about Bogner....

[Iron Horse]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

of course it is, absolutely is.

Well, if you say so, it must be true.Me>:wizard:<MetalMike II unless you change your opinion.:kidding:

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

Don't do it............. you'll want it.

I own a Shiva 1 12" combo. It is the best channel switching amp I have played thru and it is perfect for what I do. The Xtracy hase another channel, so it could be more versatile, The Shiva does all I need. great cleans and really excellent drive. The Reverb is as good as any Fender if not better than I've played thru and I own a 67 Deluxe Reverb and a 68 Super Reverb, The Bogners is warmer and the decay is more natural.

I love the Shiva, Metropolis, and Duende.

There's been times I thought of selling all my amps, besides the XTC, and buying the rest of the Bogner line......used of course.

I'd love to have those 3 I listed above. Forget all the other amp companies.
I would take your Komet in a heartbeat though.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

You really should be a salesman.....

I train salespeople for a living....plus hire and fire them. At least that job has a guaranteed paycheck at the end of the week. However, it'd be a lot funner to work for an amp company than a cartoon licensing company.

 

[rivera213]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

Get an ENGL or VHT- better tone & tighter than Bogner.

I personally think Rivera amps are weak & thin.

ENGL Fireball is a ferocious amp & pretty cheap.

The VHT Pitbull series is awesome too but much dearer.

I'd take both of those ahead of any Bogner amp every day of the week & twice on sunday's.

Just my opinion though.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

Get an ENGL or VHT- better tone & tighter than Bogner.

I personally think Rivera amps are weak & thin.

ENGL Fireball is a ferocious amp & pretty cheap.

The VHT Pitbull series is awesome too but much dearer.

I'd take both of those ahead of any Bogner amp every day of the week & twice on sunday's.

Just my opinion though.

ENGL and VHT aren't better.... they're different.

VHT has a very dry kinda sound to it, but it's very clear and articulate. I've liked some that I've played. I wasn't really all that impressed with the Deliverance, but I did like some of the Pitbulls. When I think of the VHT sound, I think of the band the Offspring. Nice crunchy, balanced tones with fast attack and a tight response. It definitely has a unique tone so if you haven't tried them, give them a shot.

ENGL has some very tight, high gain stuff. I haven't played much from them, but I did play a Straight amp and thought it was pretty solid. Good sustain, pretty versatile (cleans are good as well as the overdrive), response was like the VHT.

I haven't played a Rivera yet that I like, but to each his own. Lots of people really like the Knucklehead model amps and I tried one, but neither channel really knocked me out (don't quite understand where so many people get the impression that it's like having a Marshall and a Fender under the same housing). Given the right cabinet, the right settings, who knows... maybe there's some tones I've completely missed in there. I found the amp to be a bit on the harsh side of things with a thinner tone and weaker response as well (could be the tubes).

Bogner has a completely different feel and sound. Bogner is more compressed, has a looser lowend and a much warmer, saggier tone. For my taste, it's perfect and that's why I've settled with my Shiva. If you like really tight, fast responding amps with uber high gain for shredding or playing metal with, you're kinda missing the point by comparing it to anything other than an Uberschall. Due to the compression and sag, the amp comes off as "dark", but I haven't found it to be an extremely dark amplifier.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

I've put my Ecstasy next to a Jubilee, Rectifier, H&K Triamp, VHT's, Rivera Knucklehead, Marshall DSL 100, JTM 45, Bad Cat Hot Cat, Diesel Herbert, and many others.

It was like Fords next to a Ferrari, except for the Diesel. Peter from Diesel is one of the few guys in Reinhold's class. I'm not trying to sound pompous, but the XTC is the Formula I of amps. VHT's are dry with no bounce or sustain. The best ENGL's are pretty nice, and I can see why people like them, but for the money, you'd be better off with the XTC or Diesel VH4.

The ironic thing is that while the Bogners do rock/metal quite nicely, I don't even want all of those sounds out of it most of the time. I use it more like a roomful of classic amps, getting the more organic Fender/Vox/Marshall sounds out of it. It can do metal just as good as a Uberschall, but I use it scaled back for more rootsy organic tones.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

I mean, the Uberschall was surely designed to fill a gap that is missing in the XTC... it's higher gain for a start, you can't possibly say you can achieve the same tones. For the tone an Uberschall does best, an XTC will not suffice IMO.

The cab that comes with it sure is a punch to the solar plexus!


Funny thing. There's a local store that carries Bogners. They order an Uberschall and the matching, whatsit called? an UberKab? They order them, and the cab disappears. People snatch up those cabs like pennies in Tijuana. And the amp head sits there and sits there, and finally goes. Then another re-stock order comes in, and the cab disappears instantly, leaving the orphaned amp head sitting there, sobbing at the loss of its mate. Over and over.

How bout that picture of Reinhold on his website? Flappin them feathers?

Ah fudge it. Guess I'll trade my pile for another Ecstacy here pretty soon. I'm worried about how different they are nowadays though. I don't hear about them blowing up as often as I used to. My old one (3rd one made) never gave me a problem over the course of 10 years--but to save my house I had to lose it--and it blew up 4 times for the new owner. Even had to make a couple of trips to Hollywood, from what I understand.


I sure do miss that 3-d sound though, and the controllable angel feedback it did...


ah well, my Roland Cube-60 is pretty close.
wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.

 

[mediumpimpin]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

I can honestly say I have never played thru a Bogner, nor do I want to. By that, I mean my bank does not want me to, they are simply amazing amps. I base that opinion on my VERY limited experience with them. I want an XTC so bad, but I cannot justify an amp that costs well over 2 grand w/o a cab that it loud as hell. I love my orange, but I would sell that b*tch in a heartbeat for a bogner.

I say if you can afford/justify the pricetag of the bogner, then by all means DO IT. You cannot go wrong, it's one of the few amps (non vintage) that you could actually buy used and then turn around and make money off it.

 

[mediumpimpin]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

The cab that comes with it sure is a punch to the solar plexus!


Funny thing. There's a local store that carries Bogners. They order an Uberschall and the matching, whatsit called? an UberKab? They order them, and the cab disappears. People snatch up those cabs like pennies in Tijuana. And the amp head sits there and sits there, and finally goes. Then another re-stock order comes in, and the cab disappears instantly, leaving the orphaned amp head sitting there, sobbing at the loss of its mate. Over and over.

How bout that picture of Reinhold on his website? Flappin them feathers?

Ah fudge it. Guess I'll trade my pile for another Ecstacy here pretty soon. I'm worried about how different they are nowadays though. I don't hear about them blowing up as often as I used to. My old one (3rd one made) never gave me a problem over the course of 10 years--but to save my house I had to lose it--and it blew up 4 times for the new owner. Even had to make a couple of trips to Hollywood, from what I understand.


I sure do miss that 3-d sound though, and the controllable angel feedback it did...


ah well, my Roland Cube-60 is pretty close.
wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.

Are you saying Bogners are supposed to be unreliable, the old ones? I've seen vids of people taking the heads and literally dropping them on concrete and/or down some stairs then plugging them in and they work flawlessly. To me, that is a stout amp.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

Are you saying Bogners are supposed to be unreliable, the old ones? I've seen vids of people taking the heads and literally dropping them on concrete and/or down some stairs then plugging them in and they work flawlessly. To me, that is a stout amp.

No. Compared to the number of Marshalls that blow up, it is relatively a non-issue. Then again there are a lot more Marshalls out there in the world, so the number of blown-up ones can be partly explained away by that.

Here are the facts:

- I gigged and rehearsed with and banged mine up more than i'd have liked

- Mine gave me zero problems in 10 years (except twice the power tubes glowed BRIGHT purple, made a popping sound, and the amp quit making sound. New tubes, problem solved. Hey, tubes are like light bulbs, no big woop, and there was no damage to the amp. The 2nd time I used the tubes that Reinhold told me to use)

- It stopped functioning on 4 occasions after that when it was under new management, twice requiring trips to Hollywood.

- 1 other person I know and trust, and 1 other person with whom he played in a band experienced problems that yielded repairs to 2 non-functioning Bogner Ecstacys.

- for such a pricey box of bolts, and considering Reinhold (or his team) scratches values off of components (and I do not know if that is still true), which may necessitate repairs to be performed in Hollywood (assuming that's still where homebase is), it's worth a mention, but should be weighed against the fact that I stated I will probably trade my pile in for one, as I surely do miss it.


sorry for throwing you off

and the rest of what I used to hear about them blowing up was unquantifiable hearsay, which:

1. of course makes me a nipplehead
2. may be dismissed
3. did have two things in common, which is probably why my ears perked up: it all had to do with the power class switching, and the pentode/triode switching


great amplifiers

 

[mediumpimpin]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

No. Compared to the number of Marshalls that blow up, it is relatively a non-issue. Then again there are a lot more Marshalls out there in the world, so the number of blown-up ones can be partly explained away by that.

Here are the facts:

- I gigged and rehearsed with and banged mine up more than i'd have liked

- Mine gave me zero problems in 10 years (except twice the power tubes glowed BRIGHT purple, made a popping sound, and the amp quit making sound. New tubes, problem solved. Hey, tubes are like light bulbs, no big woop, and there was no damage to the amp. The 2nd time I used the tubes that Reinhold told me to use)

- It stopped functioning on 4 occasions after that when it was under new management, twice requiring trips to Hollywood.

- 1 other person I know and trust, and 1 other person with whom he played in a band experienced problems that yielded repairs to 2 non-functioning Bogner Ecstacys.

- for such a pricey box of bolts, and considering Reinhold (or his team) scratches values off of components (and I do not know if that is still true), which may necessitate repairs to be performed in Hollywood (assuming that's still where homebase is), it's worth a mention, but should be weighed against the fact that I stated I will probably trade my pile in for one, as I surely do miss it.


sorry for throwing you off

and the rest of what I used to hear about them blowing up was unquantifiable hearsay, which:

1. of course makes me a nipplehead
2. may be dismissed
3. did have two things in common, which is probably why my ears perked up: it all had to do with the power class switching, and the pentode/triode switching


great amplifiers

I figured this much. Amps aren't 100% reliable no matter the brand, too many differen't variables.

 

[rivera213]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

ENGL and VHT aren't better.... they're different.

VHT has a very dry kinda sound to it, but it's very clear and articulate. I've liked some that I've played. I wasn't really all that impressed with the Deliverance, but I did like some of the Pitbulls. When I think of the VHT sound, I think of the band the Offspring. Nice crunchy, balanced tones with fast attack and a tight response. It definitely has a unique tone so if you haven't tried them, give them a shot.

ENGL has some very tight, high gain stuff. I haven't played much from them, but I did play a Straight amp and thought it was pretty solid. Good sustain, pretty versatile (cleans are good as well as the overdrive), response was like the VHT.

I haven't played a Rivera yet that I like, but to each his own. Lots of people really like the Knucklehead model amps and I tried one, but neither channel really knocked me out (don't quite understand where so many people get the impression that it's like having a Marshall and a Fender under the same housing). Given the right cabinet, the right settings, who knows... maybe there's some tones I've completely missed in there. I found the amp to be a bit on the harsh side of things with a thinner tone and weaker response as well (could be the tubes).

Bogner has a completely different feel and sound. Bogner is more compressed, has a looser lowend and a much warmer, saggier tone. For my taste, it's perfect and that's why I've settled with my Shiva. If you like really tight, fast responding amps with uber high gain for shredding or playing metal with, you're kinda missing the point by comparing it to anything other than an Uberschall. Due to the compression and sag, the amp comes off as "dark", but I haven't found it to be an extremely dark amplifier.

Well, for ME they both have better quality tones to them than any Bogner.

I just hate saggy & compressed amps.

The ENGL is a touch compressed compared to the VHT Pitbull, but still way less compressed than any Bogner.

That's just where i'm coming from. So "better" for me goes hand in hand with how tight the amp is & how uncompressed the amp is.

I don't mean 1 type of ENGL or VHT is better than 1 type of Bogner amp, i just think ENGL & VHT are better amps full stop.

I do like the Shiva's clean tone though. Better than the ENGL's & has more character than the VHT.

Still i'm not sure you'd buy an ENGL or VHT for it's cleans.....

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

I figured this much. Amps aren't 100% reliable no matter the brand, too many differen't variables.

yeah well don't dismiss everything I said, they have had issues. There are statistics. I gave some. What you figured was not really my point. I wasn't saying they're unreliable, and I wasn't criticizing them for not being 100% reliable. My point was for a few-year period there, there were reports, and I can fairly well verify 6 major problems with 3 of the same model.

Like with cars. Hondas have problems here and there, maybe Subarus a bit less. Whereas Toyotas and Hyundais don't seem to really ever have any problems. There are guitar amp brands that don't seem to ever have any problems, either.

And then there are Fords (Found on Road Dead).

Peaveys are like Hyundais. And Ecstacys are like Cadillacs; they don't break down often, but when they do, man they really do. For a $3000 amp, this can be a consideration. Especially when:

1. you've cashed in yer IRAs and cashed in your 401k and traded everything and maxed yer credit cards to get the amp

2. the local tech would have to scratch his head over components that have had the values scratched off, and ends up telling you to send it to Hollywood.

(So guess where Marshalls fit in this analogy. A local electronics repair shop has Marshalls stacked to the rafters, more than anything else)

just an analogy, but I miss my Cadillac

I drive a Hyundai. Literally.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

Well, for ME they both have better quality tones to them than any Bogner.

I just hate saggy & compressed amps.

My Bogner was as snappy and mean as anything. Testicles to spare.

I'm feeling dumb and unimaginative, because I don't really comprehend how someone can not love a Bogner Ecstacy to death. I just can't imagine it. The sheer power...the beauty....

You actually "hate" it?

I didn't really want to go here, but, gee whiz, what guitars are you trying with them? Did you mess with the variac, try the excursion switches, the voicing switches, use the pentode setting?

The ENGL is a touch compressed compared to the VHT Pitbull, but still way less compressed than any Bogner.

This doesn't strike me as describing any Bogner amps with which I am familiar, which have a beautiful, natural compression, but megatons of chunk balls also. You can still dial in a stiff, snappy sound with little or no "give." Or dial something in that seems to respond to your playing and only compress when you want it to, it's that good.

Which Pittbull are you comparing to it? The 2 channel EL-34 one? The 3 channel KT-88? One Pittbull is far juicier and spongier than the other.

 

[rivera213]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

'm talking about the amps as a whole.

You can find any ENGL or VHT & it'll be tighter & less compressed than any Bogner. So for me, i just like the tighter amps. No big deal.

All VHT's, whichever model, are tight. Each have different characteristics for sure, but there aren't any saggy VHT's or any saggy ENGL's.

No big deal, it's just my opinion & if you dig your Bogner then cool. I just wanted to exaplain what "best" means to me. I've talked to loads of guys who think Marshall amps are the best or Mesa amps are the best etc. There's no real right answer, but for me "best" goes hand in hand with "tight" & "un-compressed".

Some people just love th crunch of Marshalls so that is their "best".

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

'm talking about the amps as a whole.

You can find any ENGL or VHT & it'll be tighter & less compressed than any Bogner. So for me, i just like the tighter amps. No big deal.

All VHT's, whichever model, are tight. Each have different characteristics for sure, but there aren't any saggy VHT's or any saggy ENGL's.

No big deal, it's just my opinion & if you dig your Bogner then cool. I just wanted to exaplain what "best" means to me. I've talked to loads of guys who think Marshall amps are the best or Mesa amps are the best etc. There's no real right answer, but for me "best" goes hand in hand with "tight" & "un-compressed".

Some people just love th crunch of Marshalls so that is their "best".

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but how much time have you spent with a Bogner Ecstacy?

You tried the blue channel?

What guitars did use to test it? Were you able to turn it up a bit and mess with switches?

btw I like VHTs a lot too, so I'm not doing a this vs. that or anything.

 

[3'scompany]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

And Ecstacys are like Cadillacs; they don't break down often, but when they do, man they really do. For a $3000 amp, this can be a consideration. Especially when:

1. you've cashed in yer IRAs and cashed in your 401k and traded everything and maxed yer credit cards to get the amp

If you are in this position, your amp breaking should bet the least of your concerns. Something like learning fiscal responsibility seems like it should be your #1 consideration.

 

[MetalMike_II]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

If you are in this position, your amp breaking should bet the least of your concerns. Something like learning fiscal responsibility seems like it should be your #1 consideration.

I've done all those things in the past just to have a roof and a sandwich. (may you never face this, wishing you well.) Had nothing to do with fiscal responsibility. The comment to which you refer was tongue-in-cheek and means the amp is expensive. My posts have lots of 'em; they're not literal.

Your advice would probably still fall on the deaf ears of every starving artist who ever lived, and who sacrificed much if not all for a set of brushes and paint or a harmonica or a beat up banjo or whatever tools were needed to satisfy the calling, to which they have no choice but to answer. A $3000 amp *may* not fall in this category, then again it may, and I have to admit that it was a rough lesson for me to learn how to weigh such zen-ery. Certainly it is reasonable to see that some hellbent-to-succeed guitar player may feel he needs such a thing and may need to make sacrifices to obtain it. In my case, there are aspects to my art I cannot acheive without a tool of such caliber, most namely, controlled "angel feedback." A much cheaper amp will do for most every of my other artistic electric guitar-based needs.

The "right" people would get the implications in my sarcastic comment to which you refer, but I don't expect everyone to make such connections, so I don't mind making this clarification.

Continued success to you with your budgeting. May you be able to afford the tools that inspire.

 

[3'scompany]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

I've done all those things in the past just to have a roof and a sandwich. Had nothing to do with fiscal responsibility.

Any $3k amp is not a staple of survival :laugh2:

The comment to which you refer was tongue-in-cheek and means the amp is expensive. My posts have lots of 'em; they're not literal.

No doubt. They're expensive. I believe your comment was tongue-in-cheek. Mine was too.

Your advice would probably still fall on the deaf ears of every starving artist who ever lived, and who sacrificed much if not all for a set of brushes and paint or a harmonica or a beat up banjo or whatever tools were needed to satisfy the calling, to which they have no choice but to answer. A $3000 amp *may* not fall in this category then again it may

I think *may not* in that sentence is better suite by the phrase *certainly does not*. I see no similarity between buying cheap equipment to enable yourself to create and express your art and buying boutique gear, other than the fact you're buying musical equipment. I don't know of any greats that started with primo gear right off the bat, let alone wouldn't have been able to create the music they did with out top-of-the-line gear

The "right" people would get the implications in my sarcastic comment to which you refer, but I don't expect everyone to make such connections, so I don't mind making this clarification.

Well then allow me to apologize for not being the "right" kind of person

Rather condescending, if you ask me, but I'm not surprised by your usual defensive stance you've displayed. Lighten up. I was making a joke. Sorry that you couldn't recognize that...

It's not like I really believed that people would be stupid enough to cash out their retirement and max out their credit cards for some musical gear. And if someone was, well, good luck to that. With that type of mindset it'd be a lost cause anyways as they'd never make it in the music industry anyways with such poor business/financial sense.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Tell me about Bogner....

Any $3k amp is not a staple of survival :laugh2:

Wrong. It even does THAT! You can always sell it in times of financial crisis, to dig yourself outta the hole! :18: