The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

[JacksonMIA]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Why would I do such a thing when every other major manufacturer makes a similar pickup in their line for less $??? I also can get custom handwounds for half the price of a Duncan Handwound. I'm not "cheap". I will pay for quality and what I want. As everyone knows I've dropped PLENTY of $ guitars recently trying to find what I want. However, this, for me is a principle issue. The whole boutique movement has been based on PAFs..of all varieties...not on Dave Mustaine or Dimebag sig pups. Obviously the other major manufacturers realized this and this is why they now offer such "Hot" or 10K PAF's in their production lines, and not "sig" pups.

I think that's what Evan is getting tired of. The options are out there - buy it from someone else, or order from the Custom Shop. You said you don't want to pay for a Custom Shop when you can get others cheaper and then turn around and say you don't have a problem spending the extra money for quality. Something doesn't add up.

Either -

1. Duncan's quality is higher than any of the other manufacturers that offer a similar pickup, including boutiques. If so, and money truely isn't a factor, order from the custom shop.

2. Duncan's quality is equal to or lower than other options. If so, why even have the discussion?

It seems to me that people want the extra quality of Duncan pups, but aren't quite as willing as they say to spend the extra money. I'd love to be able to buy SD pups for $20 each, but that wouldn't be a very smart business decision on their part. I assure you, as much as Evan enjoys this place and as beneficial as it is to the SD company, their primary concern is keeping their business profitable, NOT what a few people on an internet discussion board say they want - especially when it has been shown repeatedly that what many of them say, few actually do.

In business, money talks. Words on a forum don't, at least not as loudly.


In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

i know this might sound silly...whats a PAF and what does it sound like?
i know it's a pickup...but why is it called PAF?

Patent Applied For - the original humbucker.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Why would I do such a thing when every other major manufacturer makes a similar pickup in their line for less $??? I also can get custom handwounds for half the price of a Duncan Handwound. I'm not "cheap". I will pay for quality and what I want. As everyone knows I've dropped PLENTY of $ guitars recently trying to find what I want. However, this, for me is a principle issue. The whole boutique movement has been based on PAFs..of all varieties...not on Dave Mustaine or Dimebag sig pups. Obviously the other major manufacturers realized this and this is why they now offer such "Hot" or 10K PAF's in their production lines, and not "sig" pups.

Many would say they already offer it in the Screamin Demon pup already quie available. I mean, it's a 10K PAF! Put it in the neck and a Custom or Custom Custom in the bridge and you're ready.

I'm not sure what the S Deco is to be honest.

Then, there's potential market saturation. If all the other guys offer a 10K PAF, does it make sense to go after such a small piece of the pie? Maybe the research and comments from retail indicate that the other guys are not selling too many of them? I don't have access to that data.

Then there is the reality that a company can only effectively market so many existing and new products. I certainly don't want to see some killer new toy never make it into my hands because they spent a lot of resources going after a niche that seemed to be effectively serviced?

I don't know all the answers. I do know how much time I am spending on the discussion though!

 

[JeffB]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

I think that's what Evan is getting tired of. The options are out there - buy it from someone else, or order from the Custom Shop. You said you don't want to pay for a Custom Shop when you can get others cheaper and then turn around and say you don't have a problem spending the extra money for quality. Something doesn't add up.

Either -

1. Duncan's quality is higher than any of the other manufacturers that offer a similar pickup, including boutiques. If so, and money truely isn't a factor, order from the custom shop.

2. Duncan's quality is equal to or lower than other options. If so, why even have the discussion?

It seems to me that people want the extra quality of Duncan pups, but aren't quite as willing as they say to spend the extra money. I'd love to be able to buy SD pups for $20 each, but that wouldn't be a very smart business decision on their part. I assure you, as much as Evan enjoys this place and as beneficial as it is to the SD company, their primary concern is keeping their business profitable, NOT what a few people on an internet discussion board say they want - especially when it has been shown repeatedly that what many of them say, few actually do.

In business, money talks. Words on a forum don't, at least not as loudly.


In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

This is not what I'm saying at all, MIA....

I just don't understand why Gibson, Rio, DiMarzio, etc. can do it, and Duncan can't. The market is there... otherwise, those companies wouldn't have done so. I cannot believe that there is more market these days for something like the Demon than a overwound PAF (among knowledgeable and nit impressionable consumers).

I don't necc find Duncan any better or worse in the general sense. It's not a "I have to have a Duncan pup"..it's not a quality issue for me. If NONE of the other companies were producing such a thing I'd understand why it would be custom shop only and I'd go Duncan cos they ARE my fave company. However everyone BUT Duncan *is* doing it. Evan has made his points as to why clear and although I don't necc agree with that rationale, that's fine. It's their company, they should run it as they see fit. But it's not like this is a weird not in-demand item in the general sense. Perhaps Duncan wants to cater to the younger crowd..and go with "sig" pups...I don't know. But everybody and their mother whether production or boutique makes these pups.

I'm also curious as to what S_Deco means?

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

What about the screamin demon is not a 10k paf?

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

application Moderate output, P.A.F.-style with added “growl.” Great for classic rock, jazz-rock fusion, heavy rock and aggressive instrumental rock.
description This pickup was designed in the Custom Shop for guitar legend George Lynch. It has the big open sound of our ‘59 ModelTM with a little less bite and a little more growl. The tone is big, percussive with a defined treble response that doesn’t get harsh. It uses one row of allen screws and one row of standard slotted screws for a unique “airy” sound. Comes with four-conductor hookup cable.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

I think that's what Evan is getting tired of. The options are out there - buy it from someone else, or order from the Custom Shop. You said you don't want to pay for a Custom Shop when you can get others cheaper and then turn around and say you don't have a problem spending the extra money for quality. Something doesn't add up.

Either -

1. Duncan's quality is higher than any of the other manufacturers that offer a similar pickup, including boutiques. If so, and money truely isn't a factor, order from the custom shop.

2. Duncan's quality is equal to or lower than other options. If so, why even have the discussion?

It seems to me that people want the extra quality of Duncan pups, but aren't quite as willing as they say to spend the extra money. I'd love to be able to buy SD pups for $20 each, but that wouldn't be a very smart business decision on their part. I assure you, as much as Evan enjoys this place and as beneficial as it is to the SD company, their primary concern is keeping their business profitable, NOT what a few people on an internet discussion board say they want - especially when it has been shown repeatedly that what many of them say, few actually do.

In business, money talks. Words on a forum don't, at least not as loudly.


In the immortal words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that."

First, I can't speak for others but for me it's not so much about the money as the time factor. I would be nice to go into a store and just buy one over the counter -- even at a higher price -- or even to go on-line and buy it and have it within a few days. With the Custom Shop you may have to wait weeks, possibly months depending on how busy they are. Sure I'd like it cheaper but time is the primary reason I'd like to see something like this part of the over-the-counter line-up.

Second, if they don't want to make/expand the dread 10k-11k pickup line, fine. This is America and Seymour can run his company any way he pleases as far as I'm concerned. There are other sources for this and life will go on.

But what I find disturbing is that it has become such a sore spot. Why are Evan & Co. so touchy about it? Instead of just repeating "Sorry guys, it's just not on the drawing board for various reasons right now, maybe somewhere down the road", we get "Stop talking about it, stop talking about it! Stop hijacking the threads! Mmmmmmm, I can't hear you!" and locked threads, etc.

What is that? And then to bait us by within a week asking us about the glow-in-the-dark bobbins?

This behavior is so strange I'm beginning to think Gibson just bought Duncan.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Maybe the could just change the name???

Can you see the potential frustrastions? They already make it!

 

[JeffB]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

What about the screamin demon is not a 10k paf?

The 10K is about what people are asking for it seems, but for most people who have experience with both, they know tonally they are quite different. I've not owned one, I've heard enough of them in others peoples guitars to say...nope..not a PAF. I know what the Duncan description says, but it's not very accurate, IME.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Who gives a damn

Who gives a damn

Is this the line for the pancake breakfast? :smokin: :laugh2: :chairfall

 

[Surgeon]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

I wouldn't say they are being touchy... I would react the same way if people kept asking and bitching about something I already extensively explained... they asked us to stop talking about it because nothing good or new came out of the discussions and was creating a negative vibe over the forum.... It's just time to get over it and play our guitars I think...

 

[JeffB]

Re: Who gives a damn

Re: Who gives a damn

Is this the line for the pancake breakfast? :smokin: :laugh2: :chairfall

Pends..you want maple syrup Joe? all the other pancake breakfast places have maple syrup..not here though :laugh2:




FYI..I"m trying to keep this convo "light" not ruffle any feathers...

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

First, I can't speak for others but for me it's not so much about the money as the time factor. I would be nice to go into a store and just buy one over the counter -- even at a higher price -- or even to go on-line and buy it and have it within a few days. With the Custom Shop you may have to wait weeks, possibly months depending on how busy they are. Sure I'd like it cheaper but time is the primary reason I'd like to see something like this part of the over-the-counter line-up.

Second, if they don't want to make/expand the dread 10k-11k pickup line, fine. This is America and Seymour can run his company any way he pleases as far as I'm concerned. There are other sources for this and life will go on.

But what I find disturbing is that it has become such a sore spot. Why are Evan & Co. so touchy about it? Instead of just repeating "Sorry guys, it's just not on the drawing board for various reasons right now, maybe somewhere down the road", we get "Stop talking about it, stop talking about it! Stop hijacking the threads! Mmmmmmm, I can't hear you!" and locked threads, etc.

What is that? And then to bait us by within a week asking us about the glow-in-the-dark bobbins?

This behavior is so strange I'm beginning to think Gibson just bought Duncan.

I think you are wrong on the baiting you thing? Would you rather he not test market ideas to us? That is one of the coolest things about this board.

On the "down the road" comment, would you prefer he just lied to you?

There exists a 10K Dunan PAF. The Screamin Demon!

If you were working at a hamburger joint and some asked you for "chips". "We serve fries." "Well, mate, in the UK, we call them chips!"

"okay, then I'll get you some."

"no, I want some chips."

"Coming right up"

"No, those are fries, I specifically want CHIPS!"

"But sir, our fries and your chips are the same thing!"

"Dammit, why are you baiting me with these chocolate cookies, I want CHIPS!"

"Uh, sir, we like to offer all sorts of menu options. I won't add any cookies."

"Really man, every place in the UK offers CHIPS!"

"uh, sir, you are starting to disturb the other folks eating here. If you keep this up, I'll have to ask you to go eat somewhere else, like at Burger Barn next door."

"Are you threatening me?"


Can you guys see how silly this is? The 10K PAF=Screamin' Demon! :banana:

 

[Guitar Toad]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

I have stayed out of this for the most part....let me ask a couple of questions...

Could it be that a pickup made with PAF materials and wound to 10K is by definition no longer a true PAF pickup. Is the argument of a pickup made like a PAF and overwound to 10K will not and cannot retain the PAF tone/sound?

PAF and wound to 10 are mutally exclusive propositions?

O, right it's the Screaming Demon. I got it. :laugh2:

 

[JeffB]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Can you guys see how silly this is? The 10K PAF=Screamin' Demon! :banana:

As I said. Tonally no. On Paper, maybe.

Toad, I'm actually not dead set on any "K" wind, though others may be. It could be 9. It could be 9.5 , it could be whatever.

Most of the overwound PAFs from other manufacturers are in that 9-9.5 K range, appx.

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Then, if to your ears they are not the same, you'll have to call MJ and tell her how you want it different, a custom fit to match the tone in your head. Pretty simple to me. That's just what the Custom shop is for.

 

[Rocker35]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Maybe it should be reffered to as the 'hotter' pickup just as Macbeth is referred to as the 'scottish play' in thespian circles.:27:

Steady hot heads, thats spelt 'th.........!!!!:chairfall :laugh2:

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

Our we chasing our tails, cuz I'm gettin' dizzy!!!

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

:kabong:

 

[Scott_F]

Re: The elusive 10K PAF Disscusions Open (Scott)

I think some of you just enjoy the debate moreso than others!