The EMG Legend is true!
- Thread starter Metalman_666
- Start date
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
My opinion: they sound bad.
Fact: their dynamic response can be likened to a compander circuit as extremely soft picking results in an VERY small signal(makes sense, an active preamp needs a certain input voltage to produce a proper output) and above a certain picking level things stop getting louder(again, a preamp can only handle a certain input level).
How is it my opinion when it happens in real life?MikeS said:Wow, version 847 of the same old EMG arguments. When is anyone going to type a new argument either for or against EMG? The only thing older than EMG's preamp designs are TheGZues's arguments for why he doesn't like them.
I respect your opinion, bro, but do try to make you critiques a little more objective. You're literally throwing your opinion around as though it were fact... and I've read it 100 times now. But not that it's your fault this time, after all, you did restrain until antagonized.
.
My opinion: they sound bad.
Fact: their dynamic response can be likened to a compander circuit as extremely soft picking results in an VERY small signal(makes sense, an active preamp needs a certain input voltage to produce a proper output) and above a certain picking level things stop getting louder(again, a preamp can only handle a certain input level).
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
Almot every year a new and better chip comes out.
Who's petty and pathetic?
There have been significant improvements in SMEICONDUCTORS since then, particularly in op-amps.screamingdaisy said:Holy f*ck! The 70s! Nothing good ever came out of the 70s! I guess we should ditch all those old 70s Marshall and Fender amps too.....
Anyway, your argument is old and tired, and you're making yourself look petty and pathetic.
But....you can keep going on if you want....
Almot every year a new and better chip comes out.
Who's petty and pathetic?
JB_From_Hell
Jomo's Nimions
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
^^^ sorry, my bad
^^^ sorry, my bad
WICKED LESTER
New member
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
believe it or not i can tell a duncan JB no matter what guitar it is in
also the DD or a tone zone
so really the EMG stuff is no different as far as that goes
I have three lesters all loaded with a 81 in the bridge and had a 81 in my lone star strat and the 81 sounds different in each to some degree
just as if i were to load them all with JB's or DD's
a pickup is just that it picks up the tone then transfers it
i dont find the EMG's to be any bit "one dimensional" as any duncan or dimarzio i have tried at least when you are talking high output
Metalman_666 said:
believe it or not i can tell a duncan JB no matter what guitar it is in
also the DD or a tone zone
so really the EMG stuff is no different as far as that goes
I have three lesters all loaded with a 81 in the bridge and had a 81 in my lone star strat and the 81 sounds different in each to some degree
just as if i were to load them all with JB's or DD's
a pickup is just that it picks up the tone then transfers it
i dont find the EMG's to be any bit "one dimensional" as any duncan or dimarzio i have tried at least when you are talking high output
Metalman_666
Well-known member
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
Excellent points. I have a lot to learn yet when it comes to pickups... and I've been thinking about switching the EMG's out of my guitar for some nice passives. Either Duncans or Bill Lawrence. :welcome:
WICKED LESTER said:believe it or not i can tell a duncan JB no matter what guitar it is in
also the DD or a tone zone
so really the EMG stuff is no different as far as that goes
I have three lesters all loaded with a 81 in the bridge and had a 81 in my lone star strat and the 81 sounds different in each to some degree
just as if i were to load them all with JB's or DD's
a pickup is just that it picks up the tone then transfers it
i dont find the EMG's to be any bit "one dimensional" as any duncan or dimarzio i have tried at least when you are talking high output
Excellent points. I have a lot to learn yet when it comes to pickups... and I've been thinking about switching the EMG's out of my guitar for some nice passives. Either Duncans or Bill Lawrence. :welcome:
fenderiarhs
Active member
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
i am getting sick of hearing the same crap over and over again..........emg s are making all guitars sound the same. I currently have emgs installed on 2 of my guitars and i am planning to install them in a third guitar. I'm using them for 12 years now so i know much more about them than the person that has bought them yestarday or has heard them on a guitar he tried at some music shop. You may hate the way emgs are sounding and that's 1000000000% O.K What i really cannot stand to read for the 22227687676876876 time is that EMGS MAKE ALL GUITARS SOUND THE SAME....so whoever says that, he either needs to clean his ears, or he heard emgs once over a music shop somewhere in time or he knows nothing about guitar sound........Every forum has a purpose and that's to help other people and to discuss information about musical instruments e.t.c so try to be informative instead of saying all that crap............
i am getting sick of hearing the same crap over and over again..........emg s are making all guitars sound the same. I currently have emgs installed on 2 of my guitars and i am planning to install them in a third guitar. I'm using them for 12 years now so i know much more about them than the person that has bought them yestarday or has heard them on a guitar he tried at some music shop. You may hate the way emgs are sounding and that's 1000000000% O.K What i really cannot stand to read for the 22227687676876876 time is that EMGS MAKE ALL GUITARS SOUND THE SAME....so whoever says that, he either needs to clean his ears, or he heard emgs once over a music shop somewhere in time or he knows nothing about guitar sound........Every forum has a purpose and that's to help other people and to discuss information about musical instruments e.t.c so try to be informative instead of saying all that crap............
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
1: NO traditional active or passive pickup will work without polepieces, but I assume you know that and meal poles instead of rails.
2. If the poles are the only difference, then please explain the 5x higher current draw compared to other EMGs.?? Eddy currents?? LOL.... at the very minimum there was something done to the preamp to cause that huge spikle in power consumption.
Either way, nobody is forcing you to use EMGs... but why are we forced to read through pages of this bull**** everytime someone asks a question about them?
That said, I have multiple guitars with identical EMGS in them... none sound anywhere near the same, and I also don´t have major dynamics problems like you mention @18Volts.
I´m sorry, but your comments and the fact that they´re seen in EVERY EMG thread makes it seem a hell of a lot more like some kind of personal agenda than anything factual, especially because some of the "facts" you state are far from the truth (for ex: You ever seen an S and an SV from the inside? I have, they´re far from the same opickup in a pole design.... the entire preamp as well as the coil has a different layout)
You´re entitled to your opinion, no question... but the way you spew it around doesn´t make people likely to give it extra thought
How long did you work for each of the companies?? Otherwise you´re the last person on earth qualified to make that judgementTheGZeus said:
TheGZeus said:
1: NO traditional active or passive pickup will work without polepieces, but I assume you know that and meal poles instead of rails.
2. If the poles are the only difference, then please explain the 5x higher current draw compared to other EMGs.?? Eddy currents?? LOL.... at the very minimum there was something done to the preamp to cause that huge spikle in power consumption.
I seriously hope that I don´t have top point out the essential logical error of this statement... Or you you just feel everything pre-1980 is ****? I seriously have no idea what you´re getting at here.....TheGZeus said:
Good for you, you´re unique...most can´t and like it that way.
Again, most will certainly disagree. I know I do.
Either way, nobody is forcing you to use EMGs... but why are we forced to read through pages of this bull**** everytime someone asks a question about them?
90% of the audiences our there don´t really care... and those that DO generally aren´t concerned about what´s on the cover of the pickups but what the final result is.... Ask yourself: is it worth that effort to second guess the audience.....TheGZeus said:
That said, I have multiple guitars with identical EMGS in them... none sound anywhere near the same, and I also don´t have major dynamics problems like you mention @18Volts.
I´m sorry, but your comments and the fact that they´re seen in EVERY EMG thread makes it seem a hell of a lot more like some kind of personal agenda than anything factual, especially because some of the "facts" you state are far from the truth (for ex: You ever seen an S and an SV from the inside? I have, they´re far from the same opickup in a pole design.... the entire preamp as well as the coil has a different layout)
You´re entitled to your opinion, no question... but the way you spew it around doesn´t make people likely to give it extra thought
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
Duncan and DiMarzio have come out with numerous other pickups and DiMarzio has numerous patents.
2a. Try splitting a curly one next time.
2b. Probably more headroom.
3. There have been numerous improvments in IC and op-amps since then. I've said that many times in this thread.
4. That's sad. or at least it's sad that you think that.
5. see above.
No one's forcing you to do anything.
6. If the audience doesn't care, then let's all go get graphite guitars.
Music is meant to be listened to. If the listener doesn't matter, then it's just masturbation.
This thread's the only one I've ever mentioned the SV line.
They imply in their lit that the difference is the poles.
I dislike this company's pricing, product, claims they make about their products, claims OTHERS make about their products...
Same goes for Gibson and PRS.
The only thing you can truly contest in what I've said is the SV line.
Might actually have a good preamp in it! Who knows...Other than EMG?
1. No truly new products outside of the V series(polepieces...wow) since the 70s..... The same preamp....Zerberus said:How long did you work for each of the companies?? Otherwise you´re the last person on earth qualified to make that judgement
1: NO traditional active or passive pickup will work without polepieces, but I assume you know that and meal poles instead of rails.
2. If the poles are the only difference, then please explain the 5x higher current draw compared to other EMGs.?? Eddy currents?? LOL.... at the very minimum there was something done to the preamp to cause that huge spikle in power consumption.
I seriously hope that I don´t have top point out the essential logical error of this statement... Or you you just feel everything pre-1980 is ****? I seriously have no idea what you´re getting at here.....
Good for you, you´re unique...most can´t and like it that way.
Again, most will certainly disagree. I know I do.
Either way, nobody is forcing you to use EMGs... but why are we forced to read through pages of this bull**** everytime someone asks a question about them?
90% of the audiences our there don´t really care... and those that DO generally aren´t concerned about what´s on the cover of the pickups but what the final result is.... Ask yourself: is it worth that effort to second guess the audience.....
That said, I have multiple guitars with identical EMGS in them... none sound anywhere near the same, and I also don´t have major dynamics problems like you mention @18Volts.
I´m sorry, but your comments and the fact that they´re seen in EVERY EMG thread makes it seem a hell of a lot more like some kind of personal agenda than anything factual, especially because some of the "facts" you state are far from the truth (for ex: You ever seen an S and an SV from the inside? I have, they´re far from the same opickup in a pole design.... the entire preamp as well as the coil has a different layout)
You´re entitled to your opinion, no question... but the way you spew it around doesn´t make people likely to give it extra thought
Duncan and DiMarzio have come out with numerous other pickups and DiMarzio has numerous patents.
2a. Try splitting a curly one next time.
2b. Probably more headroom.
3. There have been numerous improvments in IC and op-amps since then. I've said that many times in this thread.
4. That's sad. or at least it's sad that you think that.
5. see above.
No one's forcing you to do anything.
6. If the audience doesn't care, then let's all go get graphite guitars.
Music is meant to be listened to. If the listener doesn't matter, then it's just masturbation.
This thread's the only one I've ever mentioned the SV line.
They imply in their lit that the difference is the poles.
I dislike this company's pricing, product, claims they make about their products, claims OTHERS make about their products...
Same goes for Gibson and PRS.
The only thing you can truly contest in what I've said is the SV line.
Might actually have a good preamp in it! Who knows...Other than EMG?
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Re: The EMG Legend is true!
In my agaithis *shudders* Platinum pro, the EMG's sound just like the guitar does acousticly.
Extremely netrual, but very persice. And in my guitar they sound lively for some reason, no dead tone here.
They are a tad compressed sounding, but you give that up for the awesome feel they offer.
In my agaithis *shudders* Platinum pro, the EMG's sound just like the guitar does acousticly.
Extremely netrual, but very persice. And in my guitar they sound lively for some reason, no dead tone here.
They are a tad compressed sounding, but you give that up for the awesome feel they offer.
Zerberus
Baron Von Shred
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
Again, without first had experience in the R&D section of all three companies you CAN NOT make any sort of informed statement, you´re automatically talking out your ass, here...
a. No Idea WTF you´re taklking about, I´ve had both pups milled apart in my hands before and can state those differences first hand...
b. More headroom yould be the result of more voltage or more efficient Op Amps, which would mean either 18Vmod or a LOWER current drain @the same headroom.... Assuming as you do that it´s the same preamp... simple Physics denies that possibility
THe AUDIENCE is there for the SHOW, if they want to hear you sound exactly like the record they´ll buy the record and that´s it. Your tone is secondary to putting on a good show in a live situation.
I can contest ANYTHING you say, anytime I want... it´s called freedom of Speech. But I don´t consider this to be worth any more of my time, nor that of anyone else....
I respect your opinion, but you´re pushing it like ****ing crack in every EMG thread, and that´s getting on more nerves that just mine...
R&D does NOT = Products... a large part of R&D is unfortunately wasted on products that don´t pan out, or improvements that turn out to be crap....TheGZeus said:
Again, without first had experience in the R&D section of all three companies you CAN NOT make any sort of informed statement, you´re automatically talking out your ass, here...
a. No Idea WTF you´re taklking about, I´ve had both pups milled apart in my hands before and can state those differences first hand...
b. More headroom yould be the result of more voltage or more efficient Op Amps, which would mean either 18Vmod or a LOWER current drain @the same headroom.... Assuming as you do that it´s the same preamp... simple Physics denies that possibility
and that means... Abso****inglutely nothing... To prove my point: how many high end recording studios still use 60´s and ´70s consoles becasue they sound BETTER? Shouldn´t they sound even more ****ed up by your logic?
That´s 15 years of playing and >10 years of luthierie experience talking, and multipple hundred hours of studio time in the same 15 year frame.... Now what are your credentials, bigshot? You seem to think you´re so ultimately superior and that your opinion is the only one w/substance, and that´s total :bsflag:
No, you with your ****ing anti-emg agenda are FORCING dozens to hundreds of other people to read the exact same ****ing useless discussion, based solely on your dislike for the pickups, at best 50% of what ´s spewed are facts and the rest is preference (You obviiously see no difference between your opinion and provable, universal facts, but that´s your problem not mine), EVERY TIME an EMG thread is started... We´ve all read it a few dozen times, and most of us are just plan sick and ****i9ng tired about reading about it EVERY TIEM someone asks an EMG Question.... YOur ONLY defense is that you were provoked this time, I still doubt strongly that you would have let this thread alone anyway.... Your vendettas are NOT our problem, period. But with your input on every EMG thread your making them our problem.
I can name dozens of musicians, esp bassists, that actually USE these.... But it´s a technology that was invented in the 70s, so it must be ****. Euther way, you have a talent for distorting arguments to your advantage and pissing others off doing it, which you effectively prove here.
THe AUDIENCE is there for the SHOW, if they want to hear you sound exactly like the record they´ll buy the record and that´s it. Your tone is secondary to putting on a good show in a live situation.
We finally agree on something.....
I can contest ANYTHING you say, anytime I want... it´s called freedom of Speech. But I don´t consider this to be worth any more of my time, nor that of anyone else....
I respect your opinion, but you´re pushing it like ****ing crack in every EMG thread, and that´s getting on more nerves that just mine...
Evan Skopp
SDUGF Founder
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
Did I miss something? Was the subject of this thread, Let's see how poorly we can treat each other?
I think some of you need to take a break from this thread and spend some time playing your guitar(s) with [FILL IN THE BLANK] pickukps loaded in them.
Did I miss something? Was the subject of this thread, Let's see how poorly we can treat each other?
I think some of you need to take a break from this thread and spend some time playing your guitar(s) with [FILL IN THE BLANK] pickukps loaded in them.
Re: The EMG Legend is true!
I was talking about the polepiece comment.
The CHANGED THE SHAPE of the polepiece(s) VS SWITCHED TO.
You decided to make an issue of it.
You've stated that there is a higher current draw. it can't be the same preamp. I was saying the redisign might have been done for more headroom.
Fing this and Fing that. I made one comment as I put the audience first and foremost after the music being played.
I was going to leave it at that. Someone asked for more, i gave them what they wanted. Complain too them.
I'm not forcing you to read anything. That requires an effort. You are taking the time to read it, and taking the time to reply.
My credentials? They don't really matter relative to the points I've made.
However, I'm speaking from things I've spent hours learning from someone doing sound, repair, and tour work since 1965. I'll be buying an old pro Kelsey board(yes, from the 1970s. He himself has stated that it's the best board he's ever heard but it would probably sound even better with all new op-amps) from him in the comping months.
Lutheir-related experience has little to do with understanding electronics outside of wiring a passive circuit(the difference between EMG wiring and passive is a battery clip, hot power connection, and a jack. They don't even bother with a cold signal lead...) centered on ground.
Mike's seen the inside of about every company's products related to sound EXCEPT guitars. I'm talking about the ELECTRONICS inside the pickup OUTSIDE of the electromegnetic transducer.
My point about it being old tech is there's room for improvement, and they refuse to. I think that sucks. The end.
A common fallacy is "a million people can't be wrong." Yes they can.
Ask civil rights activists(I'm not comparing EMG users to racists... I'm saying alot of people that think alike can be wrong).
I'm not distorting anything. People seem to regularly misuderstand me when i'm not EXCEEDINGLY SPECIFIC, so I have to correct them.
Do I have a telent for pissing people off? Well, it's not my intent, but it seems to work on you. i recommend therapy.
I agree that they're there for a show, but if sounding good isn't important(waht that has to do with sounding like a recording is beyond me...) then we should all be playuing graphite guitars as they're more stable and durable.
All jazz players would have been playing solidbodies for 50 years.
When I go to a show if the band SOUNDS bad it's far too distrating to concentrate on what they're playing.
I actually don't post in most EMG threads. I rarely read them in fact.
Heck, I'm not even here that often.
Opinions are personal feelings on a subject, facts are things based in reality, and universal truths are arguably non-existant.
My opinion is that EMG pickups sound bad and the company has lousy business practices for an advancement and marketing standpoint(I'm not talking success, I'm talking good product).
The fact is that they are compressed, have a very old preamp design, and have a notable amount of internal processing(what does 'impedence modeling' even mean, really?).
Universal truth is a huge philosphical argument that has no place here.
I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt that they'd be able too come up with a good product.Zerberus said:
I was talking about the polepiece comment.
The CHANGED THE SHAPE of the polepiece(s) VS SWITCHED TO.
You decided to make an issue of it.
You've stated that there is a higher current draw. it can't be the same preamp. I was saying the redisign might have been done for more headroom.
Fing this and Fing that. I made one comment as I put the audience first and foremost after the music being played.
I was going to leave it at that. Someone asked for more, i gave them what they wanted. Complain too them.
I'm not forcing you to read anything. That requires an effort. You are taking the time to read it, and taking the time to reply.
My credentials? They don't really matter relative to the points I've made.
However, I'm speaking from things I've spent hours learning from someone doing sound, repair, and tour work since 1965. I'll be buying an old pro Kelsey board(yes, from the 1970s. He himself has stated that it's the best board he's ever heard but it would probably sound even better with all new op-amps) from him in the comping months.
Lutheir-related experience has little to do with understanding electronics outside of wiring a passive circuit(the difference between EMG wiring and passive is a battery clip, hot power connection, and a jack. They don't even bother with a cold signal lead...) centered on ground.
Mike's seen the inside of about every company's products related to sound EXCEPT guitars. I'm talking about the ELECTRONICS inside the pickup OUTSIDE of the electromegnetic transducer.
My point about it being old tech is there's room for improvement, and they refuse to. I think that sucks. The end.
A common fallacy is "a million people can't be wrong." Yes they can.
Ask civil rights activists(I'm not comparing EMG users to racists... I'm saying alot of people that think alike can be wrong).
I'm not distorting anything. People seem to regularly misuderstand me when i'm not EXCEEDINGLY SPECIFIC, so I have to correct them.
Do I have a telent for pissing people off? Well, it's not my intent, but it seems to work on you. i recommend therapy.
I agree that they're there for a show, but if sounding good isn't important(waht that has to do with sounding like a recording is beyond me...) then we should all be playuing graphite guitars as they're more stable and durable.
All jazz players would have been playing solidbodies for 50 years.
When I go to a show if the band SOUNDS bad it's far too distrating to concentrate on what they're playing.
I actually don't post in most EMG threads. I rarely read them in fact.
Heck, I'm not even here that often.
Opinions are personal feelings on a subject, facts are things based in reality, and universal truths are arguably non-existant.
My opinion is that EMG pickups sound bad and the company has lousy business practices for an advancement and marketing standpoint(I'm not talking success, I'm talking good product).
The fact is that they are compressed, have a very old preamp design, and have a notable amount of internal processing(what does 'impedence modeling' even mean, really?).
Universal truth is a huge philosphical argument that has no place here.
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