The importance of the upper bout

[greekdude]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

hmm just noticing where neck meets the body is an easy way to tell. I just chose randomly LTD and those two eclipse models:

ESP's case
22 frets http://www.espguitars.com/products/9550-ec-1000t-ctm-sw - joins on 16th fret
24 frets http://www.espguitars.com/products/9514-ec-1000-ssb - joins on 17th fret

Schecter's case :
22 frets http://www.schecterguitars.com/international/guitars/solo-ii-custom-gloss-natural-detail - joins on 16th
24 frets http://www.schecterguitars.com/international/guitars/solo-ii-platinum-detail - joins on 17th

Ibanez's case :
22 frets http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/ART120 - joins on 17th fret
24 frets http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_pre16.php?year=2016&area_id=3&cat_id=1&series_id=7&pre=1 - joins on 18th fret

Kramer's case :
24 frets http://www.kramerguitars.com/Products/Assault/Assault-220.aspx - joins on 18th fret

I guess its pretty simple. The 24 frets guitars will have more neck dive than the first.

Searching I didn't find one brand (among the major ones) which extends the fretboard towards the bridge. As you see ALL of the above move the system to the left by the length of roughly one fret around the 17th fret.

 

[dave74]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

Everything matters. There's so many factors involved. I hate neck-dive!!!

 

[Obsessive Compulsive]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

Hi. Long-time lurker here. I never had any neck-dive problem with a 24-fret Ibby.. I think what matters is not whether the upper bout exists/ doesn't exist. It's whether I can reach at least the 21st fret on the low E (6th string).

This is my biggest problem with an LP. I got wrist pain trying to play a note on the 20th fret, low E. Another problem with an LP is the flat back, which pokes me on the rib. Weight, thick neck, never been issues. I have large hands. I recommend hit the gym more often if you have problems with LP's weight.

 

[AlexR]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

hmm just noticing where neck meets the body is an easy way to tell. I just chose randomly LTD and those two eclipse models:

ESP's case
22 frets http://www.espguitars.com/products/9550-ec-1000t-ctm-sw - joins on 16th fret
24 frets http://www.espguitars.com/products/9514-ec-1000-ssb - joins on 17th fret

Schecter's case :
22 frets http://www.schecterguitars.com/international/guitars/solo-ii-custom-gloss-natural-detail - joins on 16th
24 frets http://www.schecterguitars.com/international/guitars/solo-ii-platinum-detail - joins on 17th

Ibanez's case :
22 frets http://ibanez.wikia.com/wiki/ART120 - joins on 17th fret
24 frets http://www.ibanez.com/products/eg_pre16.php?year=2016&area_id=3&cat_id=1&series_id=7&pre=1 - joins on 18th fret

Kramer's case :
24 frets http://www.kramerguitars.com/Products/Assault/Assault-220.aspx - joins on 18th fret

I guess its pretty simple. The 24 frets guitars will have more neck dive than the first.

Searching I didn't find one brand (among the major ones) which extends the fretboard towards the bridge. As you see ALL of the above move the system to the left by the length of roughly one fret around the 17th fret.

Think about it a bit more.....they ALL extend toward the bridge.
2 extra frets on the fretboard......only 1 extra fret of that is out of the body.

And as most singlecuts never show any tendency to dive anyhow, I can't see 1 fret extra proving any form of hinderance.
Look at guitars that actually dive in the first place.....like SG shape.....that will where the neck/fretboard bit will be of importance dive wise.

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

Weight distribution, neck joint, and strap button placement sure make do a lot of difference. The article about Strat vs Tele neck angle made a lot of sense, they each really have their own natural way to hang. For those who find LPs uncomfortable, a similar guitar with a shaved neck joint and belly cut or thinner body overall could suit them better. Or might not, depending on the person's tastes, size & shape, and arm/hand geometry. Many people are fine with LPs. Many are fine with Telecasters. Plenty are fine with SGs, though for me personally the neck dive bothers me a bit, and I think it'd become an annoyance if I tried to play one all night. I have a Wildkat with a tendency towards neck dive too- fine for a song or two, not an axe I'd choose to play a whole set on.

Thread title made me think immediately of this upper bout, though the guitar is so tiny I don't think it'd work well for me:

 

[Coma]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

Weight distribution, neck joint, and strap button placement sure make do a lot of difference. The article about Strat vs Tele neck angle made a lot of sense, they each really have their own natural way to hang. For those who find LPs uncomfortable, a similar guitar with a shaved neck joint and belly cut or thinner body overall could suit them better. Or might not, depending on the person's tastes, size & shape, and arm/hand geometry. Many people are fine with LPs. Many are fine with Telecasters. Plenty are fine with SGs, though for me personally the neck dive bothers me a bit, and I think it'd become an annoyance if I tried to play one all night. I have a Wildkat with a tendency towards neck dive too- fine for a song or two, not an axe I'd choose to play a whole set on.

Thread title made me think immediately of this upper bout, though the guitar is so tiny I don't think it'd work well for me:

Well, guess I should've clarified, but my statement assumed that the strap button placement was stray-style.
Ofc, with a back-of-body placement like on an SG, you *might* run into the same problem (mind you, not referring to the neck dive here) but I honestly haven't played enough SGs to make a statement.

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[Chad]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

Think about it a bit more.....they ALL extend toward the bridge.
2 extra frets on the fretboard......only 1 extra fret of that is out of the body.

And as most singlecuts never show any tendency to dive anyhow, I can't see 1 fret extra proving any form of hinderance.
Look at guitars that actually dive in the first place.....like SG shape.....that will where the neck/fretboard bit will be of importance dive wise.

But the width of the two frets at the end of the fretboard are near equal to the width of the 1 fret that joins at the body. Either way, the overall length of the 24 fret guitar is absolutely longer. Yes, it's small amount, but as stated by Sheldon Dingwall in the above video, small amounts can make big differences. Maybe those guitars aren't as susceptible to balance issues in the first place, but I think he was merely posting those as examples of 24 fret vs 22 fret construction.

 

[Mincer]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

I would think a 24-fret SG would be the same size as a 22 fret one, and both neck dive.
I understand some of the super-custom builders building things like the TESLA, which has the body extending to the 7th fret or so. I really like the designs of many of the 'ergonomic guitars' out there.

 

[Chad]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

I would think a 24-fret SG would be the same size as a 22 fret one, and both neck dive.
I understand some of the super-custom builders building things like the TESLA, which has the body extending to the 7th fret or so. I really like the designs of many of the 'ergonomic guitars' out there.

Looking at a current SG Standard (22 fret) compared to a current SG Supreme (24 fret), it looks like they just extend the fretboard into the body and leave the neck joint the same. 22 fret SGs have that gap between the end of the fretboard and the pickup, which leaves an easy space to add 2 more frets.

But, yeah, as a whole SGs are absolutely more susceptible to neck dive and it goes beyond any 22 fret vs 24 fret specs.

 

[AlexR]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

But the width of the two frets at the end of the fretboard are near equal to the width of the 1 fret that joins at the body. Either way, the overall length of the 24 fret guitar is absolutely longer. Yes, it's small amount, but as stated by Sheldon Dingwall in the above video, small amounts can make big differences. Maybe those guitars aren't as susceptible to balance issues in the first place, but I think he was merely posting those as examples of 24 fret vs 22 fret construction.

My only points were written the post. I deliberately made no mention of overall length because I wanted to avoid discussing that......yet some still seem to think I did.

 

[greekdude]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

But the width of the two frets at the end of the fretboard are near equal to the width of the 1 fret that joins at the body. Either way, the overall length of the 24 fret guitar is absolutely longer. Yes, it's small amount, but as stated by Sheldon Dingwall in the above video, small amounts can make big differences. Maybe those guitars aren't as susceptible to balance issues in the first place, but I think he was merely posting those as examples of 24 fret vs 22 fret construction.

of course

 

[greekdude]

Re: The importance of the upper bout

Think about it a bit more.....they ALL extend toward the bridge.

Lol, I never claimed about the proportion of the direction of the extension. I made a very specific claim and proved this beyond doubt. You said that moving the whole system to the left would be very costy. Now that you saw yourself that in the majority of cases the system moves by (1.5 fret??- counting by the length of the highest ones) to the left, what is your theory about cost now? Sure, thinking a bit more is wise advise bro, but maybe you should start following this yourself.