The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I will listen to the video just out of pure curiosity (not a JB fan), and I will be happy to vote for my favorite, but no way can I vote for which JB is which. Not a clue!

Ironically I had a JBJ in a teardrop Teisco hollowbody for a few years when I played in a hardcore punk band in the late 1990s. I just walked into my local music store and asked if they had any used humbuckers. They had one, so I bought it for $20.

A few years ago I built a guitar, tried the Duncan, didn't care for it, and sold the pickup on eBay for maybe $70 or so. (It was in rough condition.) That's my JB story. A year later I sold the Teisco pickups for more!
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

A couple things we need to control in the experiment. Is YouTube quality enough to distinguish what is different? And, no one here ‘knows’ the guitar used for the experiment, so it will be difficult to distinguish variance with those uncontrolled influences.

What I can say about my experience is: I put a new production JB in my LP Studio (which I know very well acoustically and plugged in) and the new production JB sounded congested, clogged, no top end and a bad spike in the high mids, and when I rolled the volume off to 6 and even 4, it never cleaned up, it still had some grit. While the guitar was still plugged in to the amp, no changes, I swapped an early Seymour-wound JB (using a terminal strip to keep the same controls) and the old one cleaned up completely (no grit) when turned to 6 and it had the top end of a Pearly Gates, but tamed and not excessively bright, and the high mid spike everyone complains about wasn’t there.

Feel free to continue with the Florida meth experiment. I will play, objectively. But provide your own stinking pickups.
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

Here's three examples of my circa ~1989 JB ("JBJ" label) pickup:

Queensryche - Walk In The Shadows


Badlands - High Wire


RATT - Round And Round


It's got enough bite without being harsh, some of the best mids in a pickup (without need for EQ) for soloing, with a somewhat loose bottom.

Mine is a mid 80s JBL, but it sounds similar in my Les Paul. Ratt is a good reference. When I first tested it it sounded exactly like them. When I played it with the band I made the singer listen to Way Cool Jr. and then played it for him. He was mind blown.
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I might be willing to let you borrow a pair of '70s "The JB Model" pickups (one early run, one from ~1979) and a 1988-89 "JBJ". All are unmodified (i.e. no prior mag-swaps, etc). You'd just have to sort a large-logo early-'80s JB and and a newer production unit.

All right - I have a new regular plain Jane JB...Anyone got a large logo out there?
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

Only if you a) Say that there are clearly striking differences in these pickups and b) refuse to play the game - by voting in a blind listen.

You sir - had guitars cut from the same slab of wood for the regular vs Zephyr listen...

I’ll do you one better. For my Fishman R&D we have instant swap shuttle guitars. We hot-swapped whatever pickup we wanted. And yes my double cream butyrate “The JB Model” was part of that mix. When I went from that one to the stock new JB everyone in the room practically gasped. Not one person acted like the difference was small, or that they had to really pay attention to tell the difference.

Now, there are countless recordings made with JB’s that were not old JB’s or they weren’t old at the time of the recording, they were brand new with full strength magnets. So this notion that you can make a blanket statement that all old JB’s are always better is sort of half-baked. It’s whatever you like.

Personally as a guitarist, I think my double cream butyrate The JB Model is the best JB I have ever played in my life. My first pickup swap as a 13 year old was a JB, in the late 80s and I also liked that at the time. But in between, like 90s through maybe 2010 I had hundreds of pickups but no JBs. It wasn’t my sound. Today, I have a few old JB’s and that holy grail double cream. Personally as a guitar player I don’t like the sound of new JBs. I like the Antiquity JB and I’m glad I could get that pickup released while I was there.

So...Here’s why I’ll call BS on anybody calling BS on me: Some of the differences have to be felt under the fingers, but also some of the differences will be made apparent by choosing the right things to play that highlight the differences. For example for some reason when I play with my fingers, the difference between the double cream and a new JB is even huger. But the differences were also huge through a cranked JCM800, and getting harmonics sounds different the harmonica themselves are sweeter with less scratchy, icepick in the sound. Maybe the differences were a bit more subtle through a mid-volume cleanish Fender Twin Reverb...so the first issue is whether you’ll design a test that masks the differences or highlights the differences. The second issue is the differences in the way it feels to play them. The whole argument of “can the front row audience member tell the difference” is irrelevant. If the musician can feel and hear differences in the way they play and how the amp responds then that counts for a lot as well, and a lot of that would be missed by someone pounding away at some chords on YouTube.

But go ahead, have fun and do the blind vote test. I already know what I know, and quite possibly could be literally one of the worlds leading experts on this subject. At the very least it’ll be entertaining. :laughing:
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

...

This is interesting:
well i could definitely hear some differences. i am not too familiar with the different jbs so i would fail in a blind test, but i can see how the ant jb may be the ticket for a less annoying sound. that lil more openess and less spike could make a world of a difference to a owner or the only way to make that PU bearable :D
and this is just from the youtube vid/clips
from personal experience i know that the differences in the room sound and feel are much bigger than any clip can provide.

i like those comparisons if done properly.
in a blind test you should put some tracks twice so it will be funny if people hear a difference between them, although it maybe due to the different track they listened to before.

Edit: maybe with all the different versions it’s a bit like the same pickup in different guitars. i don’t own 2 guitars sounding the same although same construction. but the differences in them makes the same pickup sound noticeable different to me. of course the audience will not notice and i may also fail if somebody else will play the instrument in a blind test to me. but if i play for myself i will miss some nuances in one guitar or it will be too much of something in another
 
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Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

Right on, Bob. I totally agree. And Dave would do a very fair and accurate job.

Just for the heck of it, also throw in a similar sounding but different pup. I'll bet some will even vote for that one as the best sounding "JB". Ha, ha.

C8?
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I've never heard them in the same guitar. But the JB has a 'sound' and they all have it. While this pickup has its fans, I was never one of them...of any of the JB types.
I have to agree. This guitar came with the JB in the bridge. I disliked it so much, I got rid of the whole guitar just in case it wasn't the JB. Its odd that some people wont have a guitar without a JB and then there are those that wont have a guitar that has a JB.

EDIT: The JB sounded... Honky; like a horn. I tried everything to love the JB and this guitar, it went to Vegas

 
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Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I’ll do you one better. For my Fishman R&D we have instant swap shuttle guitars. We hot-swapped whatever pickup we wanted.

Now, there are countless recordings made with JB’s that were not old JB’s or they weren’t old at the time of the recording, they were brand new with full strength magnets. So this notion that you can make a blanket statement that all old JB’s are always better is sort of half-baked. It’s whatever you like.

Noted that there may well be a feel to it that obviously we can't simulate. Or - we could do this blind with Dave too....actually, we'll do that anyway. I'll get a review from him on each pups "play" if you will.

But as for the front of house factor....front of house, back of amp, monitor mix, whatever...the bottom line is: People think they know one from the other, and believe that one sounds better.

During the test you will be asked to
a) Identify both: Your PREFERENCE based on the sound and then
b) Identify which pup is which

So...you DO need to actually be able to hear which is which. And you will have NO idea which is which. And just for fun, we'll do two different passes at different times. So, based on everyone's epic knowledge and tonal preferences, you should pick the same one each time...Bwahahahahaha

Let the BS begin! Still looking for on emote JB
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

A couple things we need to control in the experiment. Is YouTube quality enough to distinguish what is different? And, no one here ‘knows’ the guitar used for the experiment, so it will be difficult to distinguish variance with those uncontrolled influences.

No - guitar will be HELD CONSTANT. It will not be a factor. The only variation will be due to pickup differences. In fact "knowing" the guitar would actually be a benefit to those who "know" the guitar.

What's the matter? These pups are so distinct and unusually difference it won't be a problem.
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

No - guitar will be HELD CONSTANT. It will not be a factor. The only variation will be due to pickup differences. In fact "knowing" the guitar would actually be a benefit to those who "know" the guitar.

What's the matter? These pups are so distinct and unusually difference it won't be a problem.

I didn’t mean he guitar used would be different. What I meant was, listeners judging will have never played the test guitar and won’t be able to know what portion of the sound is being attenuated or enhanced by the guitar. Like Frank said, you could choose a guitar that masks those differences or enhances those differences. But the listening judges won’t know which way and by how much to be able to recognize the pickups.
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I'll let Dave pick a "transparent" full range guitar. Choice of 30 plus any of his.
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I believe Frank and certainly trust his judgment. But I'm still looking forward to your video, Ace.
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

Ah, the old blind test and the 'narrative hurdle' of the statement that you need to be able to necessarily ID the specific pickup - as if thats the only part of the chain that has a tonal influence of the end result.

As others have already stated, you cannot discount the rest of the chain as having an influence. And as such its impossible to determine whether the nature of amp, overdrive, speakers, recording or playback environment is affecting the final outcome.......as we all know well.
Plus there is utterly zero chance of picking a 'transparent guitar', as you cannot hear a guitar until you have a pickup in it, and then how do you know its not the pickup doing that.
So trying to pick out a generic tonal element when it could be modified or removed by other elements along the way is a wholly flawed premise right from the start.

But this sort of test is really just a conjuration from the word go.....which is why it has been suggested. You have some premeditated premise you want to confirm, then you make the validation of the opposite opinion so hard or abstract that you simply have to say 'told you so'.
Its just a rather blatant example here.
 
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Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

I believe Frank and certainly trust his judgment. But I'm still looking forward to your video, Ace.

I do not doubt Frank for a moment. I have met Frank Falbo. Most of you yapping about this are no Frank Falbo!

But like I said - in the room, I could tell the difference in the Zephyr and the standard. But under any other circumstances...no idea. And if I didn't "know" which was which...no idea which pup I would have chosen sonically. I mean, it was a super hi-fi $500 pickup made of Silver.

And that is really the point...A lot of shooting off of the mouth, without having ever heard/played one of these. when your EYES know, and your WALLET knows, etc. that's one thing. Well, let your EARS do the talking and lets see what a big shot pickup guru you JB geeks are!

Looks like this may happen....Stay tuned! To quote the Martian, "We are gonna science the $h!t out of this!"
 
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Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

be patient kids - I need to finish my Riot vid, and this has a lot of logistics about it...
 
Re: The JB "I call BS on everyone" thread

As long as Mincer is in on the effort and analysis, I'm willing to submit my $$$$$ vintage JB's to the project

But you have to take care of them and give them back...even if you end up falling in love with them, as heartbreaking as it may be ;)
 
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