The Mids Paradox

[UberMetalDood]

Experts please fill in this opening post with a guide to using mids. I have a few questions specifically in mind such as: When/how to emphasize high mids or low mids? How much to scoop mids? Why many pickups have less mids than bass and treble?

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: The Mids Paradox

1. Plug your guitar into your amp.

2. Turn knobs until it sounds awesome.

What else do you really need to know?

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: The Mids Paradox

1. Plug your guitar into your amp.

2. Turn knobs until it sounds awesome.

What else do you really need to know?

That is what we are told when we start playing but it doesnt seem so simple in a mix or studio somewhere. If it were that easy no one would have trouble cutting through or sounding perfectly mixed in an album. It just seems like there is more to it.

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: The Mids Paradox

What you ask is near impossible to answer because the answer is, "it depends".

 

[GoDrex]

Re: The Mids Paradox

why so many threads on mids? I just think of it this way too much bass or highs is going to sound bad -- but I can often cut those frequency areas a bit with good results. But to me cutting mids almost always hollows out the sound - but turning mids up a bit can really improve tone.


for some reason when I think of mids, I think of of this song:

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: The Mids Paradox

Look, mids are cool. But it largely depends on your gear. Amps are all voiced differently, as are guitars.

I can conjure up a rig that sounds like crap in a mix with the mids up nice and high.

I can conjure up a rig that sounds like gold with the mids on the EQ down low.

We as human beings always want to simplify things. Extra mids aren't necessarily great if the mids on your amp are around 2k and the mids on your guitar are around 400hz.

USE




YOUR





EARS.

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: The Mids Paradox

BTW...DrNewcenstein is the authority here on EQ. If you must...PM. Although, I'd recommend searching "EQ experts" before I hasseled the poor guy.

 

[ratherdashing]

Re: The Mids Paradox

That is what we are told when we start playing but it doesnt seem so simple in a mix or studio somewhere. If it were that easy no one would have trouble cutting through or sounding perfectly mixed in an album. It just seems like there is more to it.

If you're looking for a magic bullet, there isn't one. Whether it's studio or live, how you set things up depends on the guitar, the amp, your effects, the song, the other instruments, the room ... I could go on all day. The only answer that works 100% of the time is to tweak things until it sounds good.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: The Mids Paradox

BTW...DrNewcenstein is the authority here on EQ. If you must...PM. Although, I'd recommend searching "EQ experts" before I hasseled the poor guy.

Thanks for the vote :friday:

Here's the EQ Thread:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=186053

After you read it, go here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFDS...421BF5C9&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=44

At 1:58, they start trading the same guitar back and forth. Same guitar, same amp, and only a channel switcher.

THAT is why you can't write a brief, definitive thread on when/why/how to use mids. A long-winded thread full of technical info and hypothetical scenarios can be done, of course, but it will be long-winded and full of technical info and hypothetical scenarios, and still end with "use your ears, or RTFM of a good frequency analyzer".

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: The Mids Paradox

If you're doin' it right, you'll spend an HOUR or two on that thread. You won't have to ask again afterwards.

 

[crguti]

Re: The Mids Paradox

Can somebody come to my house and equalize my amp? I have a mid knob in my amp and I don't what it means.

 

[eschoendorff]

Re: The Mids Paradox

BTW...DrNewcenstein is the authority here on EQ. If you must...PM. Although, I'd recommend searching "EQ experts" before I hasseled the poor guy.

Ah... beat me to it.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: The Mids Paradox

Ok so it was dumb of me to ask. The thread you pointed me to is informative. Is there a way to graphically view songs like Metallica or Pantera to see what xxx HZ of high/mid/low frequencies? Could you compare your amp sound with something like that to help dial in their tone?

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: The Mids Paradox

If you have an audio editing program like Audition 3, it has a Frequency Analysis function that will give you a general graphic representation of the EQ curve of a given song or individual sound.

If you can isolate one chord of one guitar, you can set up an EQ to reshape your tone to match that tone, regardless of how close your original tone is or is not to the target.
However, the further away your starting sound is, the more EQing it will take. You can duplicate the EQ curve the Frequency Analysis shows, but you may have to apply the EQ more than once to get the final version you're after.

I would not recommend trying to EQ your amp to match the Frequency Analysis report of an entire song with all the instruments and layers. You'll never match it properly. You have to match instrument for instrument, or the full mix for the full mix.

 

[crguti]

Re: The Mids Paradox

... ******** is the authority here on EQ.

wait... is the same authority who said didn't like EMG because they have latency?

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: The Mids Paradox

If you have an audio editing program like Audition 3, it has a Frequency Analysis function that will give you a general graphic representation of the EQ curve of a given song or individual sound.

If you can isolate one chord of one guitar, you can set up an EQ to reshape your tone to match that tone, regardless of how close your original tone is or is not to the target.
However, the further away your starting sound is, the more EQing it will take. You can duplicate the EQ curve the Frequency Analysis shows, but you may have to apply the EQ more than once to get the final version you're after.

I would not recommend trying to EQ your amp to match the Frequency Analysis report of an entire song with all the instruments and layers. You'll never match it properly. You have to match instrument for instrument, or the full mix for the full mix.

Thanks for your expertise. I am in the right place here. So it probably would not be much help to graphically represent a tone even if you could isolate it because of things like compression and post-eq'ing done in the studio? Then you would have to have dialed in the original tone before the recording/editing in order to match it? Sorry if these are dumb questions. I am kind of a newb.

 

[jcthejester13]

Re: The Mids Paradox

wait... is the same authority who said didn't like EMG because they have latency?

lol Yes. That they have some delay between picking and presentation. lol. I thought I was the only one who would remember.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: The Mids Paradox

That is what we are told when we start playing but it doesnt seem so simple in a mix or studio somewhere. If it were that easy no one would have trouble cutting through or sounding perfectly mixed in an album. It just seems like there is more to it.

You wanna know the real secret? Use less gain, seriously, you'll cut through way better

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: The Mids Paradox

wait... is the same authority who said didn't like EMG because they have latency?

You musta missed the follow-up thread where I stated that I traced the problem to the "EMG" patch in my rack I had been using in which I had mistakenly set the Dry output to 0 and left the ~20ms Delay as the output.

Thanks for your expertise. I am in the right place here. So it probably would not be much help to graphically represent a tone even if you could isolate it because of things like compression and post-eq'ing done in the studio? Then you would have to have dialed in the original tone before the recording/editing in order to match it? Sorry if these are dumb questions. I am kind of a newb.

That is correct.
You could match your amp settings to theirs, use the same guitar they did with the same pickups, etc etc, and they would be very close sitting side-by-side in the same room. However, once they're processed in the mixer, and then combined with the other instruments, as well as doubled for a fuller mix, your amp alone will not sound like theirs in the full mix.

You wanna know the real secret? Use less gain, seriously, you'll cut through way better

This is true. Just because a knob can go to 10 doesn't mean that's where it sounds best.