The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

[Gearjoneser]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Marshall 50th Anniversary Limited Edition 1962 Bluesbreaker Combo Amplifier
US$6,999.99 (MSRP $9,500.00)


Marshall 1962HW Handwired Bluesbreaker Guitar Combo Amp

Pre-Order Today! Expected 12/27/2013
US$3,999.99 (MSRP US$5,800.00)

I can't wait to see which one you choose! No need to ask advise, pull that wallet! :cool2:

 

[Adieu]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Grill cloth is cloth and you're placing it right in front of your speakers...there is an impact, no way around that.

Ever heard the line about pulling a blanket off the speakers?? The old style grill cloth is like putting the blanket back on!

Marshall used to use a cloth in the mid 60's (65 to 68 give or take) that was very thick and dense...as grill cloth goes it's not what most people really want...it really messed with the sound by rolling off a LOT of the high end of the amp and speakers.

Most of the time amp builders and speaker cab builders consider this a bad thing but if you want to really nail the sound of a mid 60's Marshall you'll find that if you use modern (post 1968) grill cloth the sound is far brighter and more in your face in the high freqs than the original amps are/were, when you kill off some of the highs then all the sudden the mids are very focused and up front.

Call it cork sniffing if you want but it does make a difference.

As for the cost of the Collins "True Bluesbreaker" cloth it's expensive to make and since he's having it made in very small batches there is no big order discount so the bottom line is it ain't cheap.

I'm not saying you have to have it I am just saying that it does make a difference.

A JTM45 with it can sound good and a JTM45 without it can sound good but both amps will sound different.

Have you ever even bothered to read their website or are you just making up your mind on a product based on it's cost??

http://www.bluesbreaker-pinstripe.com/

Buy a different blanket (though, afair, it's more of a dense curtain in essence)

I got one for $2 at a fabric outlet to experiment... Very similar weave, in fact, just the colour is somewhat off. Big whoop.

For 450, I'd bloody welll rather go shear sheep and spin the wool myself.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Buy a different blanket (though, afair, it's more of a dense curtain in essence)

I got one for $2 at a fabric outlet to experiment... Very similar weave, in fact, just the colour is somewhat off. Big whoop.

For 450, I'd bloody welll rather go shear sheep and spin the wool myself.

Not that simple man.

I understand why folks would get confused at the idea of $450 for some grill cloth but for those that want to get it right it's often the last part of the puzzle.

That cloth is not just fabric, it's rubberized cloth so again we're back to it being like nothing else out there.

Again, you don't have to have it but it you have an old Marshall or a quality close that's not quite there in terms of tone and/or look it might be the missing part of the puzzle.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

If you want dead nuts correct find a smaller builder that will use NOS parts...Metro or Wallace come to mind and get an amp from them and in the end it'll still be less than the Marshall.

If you don't have to have NOS parts get a Germino...amazing amps and I bet Greg Germino knows more about the old Marshalls than anyone left at Marshall these days!

Bottom line is the HW Marshall stuff is good but not worth the prices if you consider what you are getting and what else you can get for less money.

As for the speakers thats going to be a big debate...it has always been an unknown what speakers Eric had in his 1962, that said there are only a few options...G12M20 (Greeenback) or G12 (alnico) and the truth is simply this...Celestion builds several Greenbacks today and all of them are good but none of them are right if a mid 60's 20 watt Greenback is the benchmark and they also do a G12, and it is also a great speaker but it is also wrong if a mid 60's G12 is what you want...even the alnicos they've built for Marshalls various reissue amps over the years (Offset half stack, JH stack, etc) are good but not correct if you know what the originals sound like.

. . . of course, NOS parts won't sound the same as they did when new. Since old electrical components were so imprecise it'll be damned near impossible to perfectly replicate the sound of an originally built older amp. Old speakers don't sound the same 40-50 years later, so plugging original speakers in to an amp won't recreate the same tone that you hear on recordings from back in the day.

So, since there's no way your modern amp is going to sound the same way as the original anway, it kinda makes caring about grille cloth seem a bit overblown in my eyes.

 

[Bludave]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Buy vintage, its the only way to guarantee you have what you really want.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Buy vintage, its the only way to guarantee you have what you really want.

While I do sort of agree with you on your statement 10-12k is out of the question for most of us...original Marshall 1962 combos bring 10k on a bad day and in bad shape...a mint one recently sold for over 15k but 12k give or take is the norm for a decent one.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

. . . of course, NOS parts won't sound the same as they did when new. Since old electrical components were so imprecise it'll be damned near impossible to perfectly replicate the sound of an originally built older amp. Old speakers don't sound the same 40-50 years later, so plugging original speakers in to an amp won't recreate the same tone that you hear on recordings from back in the day.

So, since there's no way your modern amp is going to sound the same way as the original anway, it kinda makes caring about grille cloth seem a bit overblown in my eyes.

Again, it's not just grill cloth...if you've ever heard the difference it makes I guess it's easy to understand why it's a big deal if you haven't then it's just an overprices piece of grill cloth..

 

[Bludave]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

While I do sort of agree with you on your statement 10-12k is out of the question for most of us...original Marshall 1962 combos bring 10k on a bad day and in bad shape...a mint one recently sold for

over 15k but 12k give or take is the

norm for a decent one.

Agreed but I didn't say it would be cheap. I think you have to come to the realization that a vintage amp as good as it may be will be prone to breaking down and therefore is unreliable in most situations so the next obvious choice is to go with a modern reproduction of the amp which is probably NOT going to sound the same as the original but it would be more reliable IMHO yet the tone will be close but not exactly the same. But I don't think any of us here would disagree that much of THAT tone was in Eric's hands. Not the gear

 

[Adieu]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Not that simple man.

I understand why folks would get confused at the idea of $450 for some grill cloth but for those that want to get it right it's often the last part of the puzzle.

That cloth is not just fabric, it's rubberized cloth so again we're back to it being like nothing else out there.

Again, you don't have to have it but it you have an old Marshall or a quality close that's not quite there in terms of tone and/or look it might be the missing part of the puzzle.

Rubberized? Strangely, so is mine. For two bucks.

Lotsa that stuff and more in fabric stores. Take a stroll some time. Nice leatherette at 8 bucks a linear yard (sold by the eighth! no wasted cash), too.

And hey marshall sells REGULAR grille for 1960a for a hundred bucks too, so its a pattern, not a matter of specialness. Nothin special about the modern grille cloth. Whatsoever.

 

[Adieu]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Buy vintage, its the only way to guarantee you have what you really want.

Which is? Fifty years of somebody's garage dust, asbestos and lead particles inside, and herpes or crabs on the prized grille cloth?

 

[Adieu]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Again, it's not just grill cloth...if you've ever heard the difference it makes I guess it's easy to understand why it's a big deal if you haven't then it's just an overprices piece of grill cloth..

I know NOTHING about bluesbreakers, but to take another renowned Marshall that combines historic collector AND player tool value, take the jcm800: if youve ever heard it stock and original (without the drool clouding your perception), you've long since either quit lusting after it...or become a Laney customer.

Plexi? Soldano

DSL/TSL? mesa or peavey

...real fact of the matter is, the difference is that stock unmodded untweaked originals ALL suck and blow in comparison. Copycats with staying power have made countless improvements. Which is why, too, we even mention Marshalls at all, instead of their FENDER ancestor. Which they ripped off, but eventually added their own twist

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

That's a pretty one-sided view on the whole subject. Its one I embrace, but that's why I haven't said anything in this thread. Were you interested in learning about someone a opinions on their goal, or are you just trying to demean someone who doesn't hold your point of view? (Cue butthurt, backhanded suggestions and getting the last word in)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

I have no idea where you have gone with this now...

I'm not saying and never have said that the Collins cloth is worth the price they are asking however it might be if you have an original Bluesbreaker that needs correct cloth...an original Bluesbreaker can be a 12 to 15 thousand dollar amp so if you have an amp of that value and it needs the original or at least original style cloth to bring that kind of money then $450 is a bargin to make your amp worth it's full potential.

Again...not saying I'd pay it but it does make a difference in the sound and the look too...

As for your examples not sure what they mean or have to do with the topic of the amp or the cloth...

Nothing special about modern grill cloth, maybe not...this is however not modern grill cloth.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Which is? Fifty years of somebody's garage dust, asbestos and lead particles inside, and herpes or crabs on the prized grille cloth?

Simple answer is they don't make amps like they used to...sad but true.

There are truck loads of repro style parts on the market these days and sometimes they get VERY close but more often than not a repro, clone, reissue, etc amp while often VERY good amps simply do not cut it when placed next to an original.

 

[theWalrus]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Agreed but I didn't say it would be cheap. I think you have to come to the realization that a vintage amp as good as it may be will be prone to breaking down and therefore is unreliable in most situations so the next obvious choice is to go with a modern reproduction of the amp which is probably NOT going to sound the same as the original but it would be more reliable IMHO yet the tone will be close but not exactly the same. But I don't think any of us here would disagree that much of THAT tone was in Eric's hands. Not the gear

I completely agree with what you said. To be honest, I'm just considering getting one because of

- The early breakup into natural overdrive
- How close to authentic tone you can probably get with an authentic hand-wired Marshall made today
- Does not depreciate in value
- I happen to have a hand-wired 1975 50W Hiwatt 2x12 combo, completely original, beautifully relic'd, and it sounds amazing: would be a perfect replacement. Different from the Marshall Bluesbreaker, you can crank the individual channels and control the overall volume with master volume, which at noon sounds better and more natural than any overdrive pedal. So, another reason is that I don't wanna gig with a nice vintage amp. If the Marshall breaks: it's under warranty or I can find "original" (current) replacement parts easily.

Too bad that Marshall hasn't released the JTM45/100 in the new HW production; I'd totally go broke for that one.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Too bad that Marshall hasn't released the JTM45/100 in the new HW production; I'd totally go broke for that one.

Sure they did...it was the Hendrix40th Anni stack from a few years ago.

Handwired, KT66's, open back top cab with special, limited edition Celestions, block logo's, dual output trannys etc...

Cool amps but too much for most and FWIW, haven't held their value as well as most had hoped!

http://www.marshallamps.com/downloads/files/JTM45_100 hbk Eng.pdf

 

[theWalrus]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Sure they did...it was the Hendrix40th Anni stack from a few years ago.

Handwired, KT66's, open back top cab with special, limited edition Celestions, block logo's, dual output trannys etc...

Cool amps but too much for most and FWIW, haven't held their value as well as most had hoped!

http://www.marshallamps.com/downloads/files/JTM45_100 hbk Eng.pdf

I know of that one; I don't recall the detail but there is something they designed different besides having parts meeting US/European standards.

What I meant in that line was: I wish there was a JTM45/100 HW in regular production now, not in a special edition.

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

I know of that one; I don't recall the detail but there is something they designed different besides having parts meeting US/European standards.

What I meant in that line was: I wish there was a JTM45/100 HW in regular production now, not in a special edition.

They have a steel chassis where the originals have an aluminum chassis...by the time you put a power tranny, 2 output trannys and a choke the aluminum chassis gets VERY delicate.

As for making it a standard production piece why bother...there is a limited demand for that amp and they cost a tone to build so I doubt there will be any more made any time soon...maybe gain on the 50th anni!

 

[Adieu]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

Guys, guys... Normal guitars get amplified up by tubes or transistors. Guitar hero's tone, that gets amped up by, well, your head & heart

50-year old recording quality sucks, so you make huge allowances, and expect what you hear off the record to all be the recording's fault. You CANNOT copy that, because here & now, no one is gonna go around blaming your amps weaknesses on that digital HD audio recording, fully lossless FLAC, or whatever other 1080p video they see you on....plus, you guys arent Jimi or Eric, so nobody much is likely to consider you "automatically still amazing, even on crap gear"

 

[Adieu]

Re: The mighty Marshall 1962HW (Handwired Bluesbreaker Combo)

That's a pretty one-sided view on the whole subject. Its one I embrace, but that's why I haven't said anything in this thread. Were you interested in learning about someone a opinions on their goal, or are you just trying to demean someone who doesn't hold your point of view? (Cue butthurt, backhanded suggestions and getting the last word in)

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

I hate half-baked profiteering, thats the position...in fact, come to think of that, it includes any company doing "anniversary reissue whatever" editions of their gear at Nx the price (you want an anniversary special, offer a free colour option, neckplate, or truss rod cover, not a multi-grand upcharge for the "correct" something - which btw kinda admits that your usual product is WRONG, does it not?)