'The Paul' is coming back
- Thread starter Mincer
- Start date
Francois
New member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
This is interesting. Thanks for the news. I never tried the walnut one (it looks nice), but around 95 I bought the second version made of mahogany, the "Firebrand" and kept it to this day because I find it cute.
So here's my experience with a 1980 Firebrand presumely made in Nashville :
Although it shares the basic structure of a SG it really lacked the bite of on classic SG in the high register with the stock T-Top making a rather dark guitar with good low end. And chords tended to be muddy.
But it has an excellent sustain and the thin neck is quite pleasant.
The sound was significantly improved by using P-Rails (especially the P90 of the P-Rail). I also tried a Full-Shred in the neck but prefered the P90. So I think the original choice of a T-Top like humbucker was not the best for this guitar.
The Firebrand really resonates more when you use top wrapping (I experimented every other string top wrapped with the next string through the stoptail and it made a real difference.)
Interestingly enough, when you bypass the neck using a slide (any slide : blown lead crystal, ceramic, soda-lime, porcelain) and use it for single note soloing this Firebrand really shines !
So I eventually turned it into a "Semi Baritone Slide Guitar" (extension nut & Open low C tuning) and it does this very well
And I have a question : Did it came stock with so low frets ? Or mine has been heavily dressed / levelled in the past?
This is interesting. Thanks for the news. I never tried the walnut one (it looks nice), but around 95 I bought the second version made of mahogany, the "Firebrand" and kept it to this day because I find it cute.
So here's my experience with a 1980 Firebrand presumely made in Nashville :
Although it shares the basic structure of a SG it really lacked the bite of on classic SG in the high register with the stock T-Top making a rather dark guitar with good low end. And chords tended to be muddy.
But it has an excellent sustain and the thin neck is quite pleasant.
The sound was significantly improved by using P-Rails (especially the P90 of the P-Rail). I also tried a Full-Shred in the neck but prefered the P90. So I think the original choice of a T-Top like humbucker was not the best for this guitar.
The Firebrand really resonates more when you use top wrapping (I experimented every other string top wrapped with the next string through the stoptail and it made a real difference.)
Interestingly enough, when you bypass the neck using a slide (any slide : blown lead crystal, ceramic, soda-lime, porcelain) and use it for single note soloing this Firebrand really shines !
So I eventually turned it into a "Semi Baritone Slide Guitar" (extension nut & Open low C tuning) and it does this very well
And I have a question : Did it came stock with so low frets ? Or mine has been heavily dressed / levelled in the past?
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
Mine was like that too, and that was one of the reasons why I eventually sold mine. I suspect they came that way, since the reissue also is supposed to have low frets.
Mine was like that too, and that was one of the reasons why I eventually sold mine. I suspect they came that way, since the reissue also is supposed to have low frets.
Francois
New member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
Thanks Sirion, I was wondering.
I thought such low frets make you play differently : bending more and hammering less
But anyway now I don't use its frets anymore, it's a slide guitar.
Thanks Sirion, I was wondering.
I thought such low frets make you play differently : bending more and hammering less
But anyway now I don't use its frets anymore, it's a slide guitar.
SlyFoxx
Glossless
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
The original Firebrand frets were kind of low. It was my only electric for about 7 years and I wore them out in that time past the possibility of a re-crown. I had slightly taller frets installed and wore them down over the next few years but was able to get away with a re-crown that time. Since then it hasn't gotten any heavy use. I could sell it or gift it but it has such sentimental value.
The original Firebrand frets were kind of low. It was my only electric for about 7 years and I wore them out in that time past the possibility of a re-crown. I had slightly taller frets installed and wore them down over the next few years but was able to get away with a re-crown that time. Since then it hasn't gotten any heavy use. I could sell it or gift it but it has such sentimental value.
audiocheck
New member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
I could probably get a builder to make one from scratch that would cost less.
I could probably get a builder to make one from scratch that would cost less.
Sirion
Well-known member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
It probably does, but I actually think I would bend less, since I am used to bending on tall frets where the fingers hardly if ever touch the wood.
It probably does, but I actually think I would bend less, since I am used to bending on tall frets where the fingers hardly if ever touch the wood.
Francois
New member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
In that price range I would prefer now a second hand PRS SE like the Custom 24.
(But I like to keep my old guitars.)
Gibson should re-issue the 1963 Firebird VII in red with three gold mini HB !
I love it... the pictures I mean
(There was a korean EPI re-issue but not with a neck-through)
In that price range I would prefer now a second hand PRS SE like the Custom 24.
(But I like to keep my old guitars.)
Gibson should re-issue the 1963 Firebird VII in red with three gold mini HB !
I love it... the pictures I mean
(There was a korean EPI re-issue but not with a neck-through)
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
Sorry I missed the original thread and posted my own! Anyway - so many things to say and a number of responses to speak to a lot of complete ignorance and dumb@$$ery all over this thread. I have had kind of an obsession with these things for years. Played a bunch. One of my few great guitar regrets is that I was in a pawn shop in Houston that had like 3 or four of these, all going for about $500. A couple were in great condition. Ah well....anyway - some key points:
#1 Get your retail price head out of your @$$. No GC/Sam Ash/etc sells these things for retail. WTF? You guys sound like you have never bought a guitar before. Idiots. Most guitars sell flat out 60% of retail. Gibson maybe a bit more like 80%. .80 x 1300 = ~1100. I think that was about the tag I saw on the one I held the other night.
#2 Retail price vs used. Most used ones look flat out $h!tty. Some are in poor working condition. You guys all mentioned "Yeah - cool bar rock Les Paul". You got that right. But if you went to actually buy one, you would all do nothing but b!tch about the condition. First - as flat tops, they have massive gouges and worn finish below the strings. Second, most look like they have been dropped, repeatedly. The Klusons are crap. Even before this thing appeared, a $900 tag was a good deal for a meh condition one. So get over the actual 1100 dollar new price.
FYI only available from the ^%$%#$ Japanese right now on eBay, and on Reverb? One with some half-@ssed chrome replacement parts and hole in top for 1100, one with an effing Kahler, and another looks like a coffee table from a hunting lodge at $900.
And - yes - this IS a Norlin era guitar. You think Gibson slaps odd pieces of wood in a $2000 guitar today? You need to see some of the odd color mismatches etc from back then.
#3 T-Tops. Well, I realize everyone gets a fetish for old crap just because it is old. But these are some of the few pickups I just can't find a use for. I have had a set since 1979 and they are as meh as meh can be. Once your ears get over the internet hype, you'll agree too.
#4. Walnut as a tone wood. You guys do know Warmoth has a great description of a ton of wood types? I guess not...
Walnut (Juglans nigra):
Luxurious coloring and grain patterns are the earmarks of Walnut. Whether using an oil finish or a deep clear gloss, the pleasing appeal of Walnut always delivers. This is an open grained wood. Walnut is in the heavy weight category but it's not quite as heavy as hard maple. It has a similar sound to hard maple but it tends not to be as bright.
Or for in depth reading: http://tonewooddatasource.weebly.com/wood-details-u-z.html
My experience - it is indeed a bright wood, but not like Maple. It has, to me, a warm bottom and punchy bright top. Thus, I like the idea of a 59 in it, emphasizing the key tonal characteristics. I have played a bunch, and I'm talking acoustic tone (Because T-tops....)
I think they are cool different Les Paul. Not for everyone, no doubt. But as a guitar from only 1979-ish....that price is cool, and you'll replace the pups anyway. As I point out about most Gibsons - almost none of you are going to buy one anyway...so more hot air than the Santa Anna winds....
Sorry I missed the original thread and posted my own! Anyway - so many things to say and a number of responses to speak to a lot of complete ignorance and dumb@$$ery all over this thread. I have had kind of an obsession with these things for years. Played a bunch. One of my few great guitar regrets is that I was in a pawn shop in Houston that had like 3 or four of these, all going for about $500. A couple were in great condition. Ah well....anyway - some key points:
#1 Get your retail price head out of your @$$. No GC/Sam Ash/etc sells these things for retail. WTF? You guys sound like you have never bought a guitar before. Idiots. Most guitars sell flat out 60% of retail. Gibson maybe a bit more like 80%. .80 x 1300 = ~1100. I think that was about the tag I saw on the one I held the other night.
#2 Retail price vs used. Most used ones look flat out $h!tty. Some are in poor working condition. You guys all mentioned "Yeah - cool bar rock Les Paul". You got that right. But if you went to actually buy one, you would all do nothing but b!tch about the condition. First - as flat tops, they have massive gouges and worn finish below the strings. Second, most look like they have been dropped, repeatedly. The Klusons are crap. Even before this thing appeared, a $900 tag was a good deal for a meh condition one. So get over the actual 1100 dollar new price.
FYI only available from the ^%$%#$ Japanese right now on eBay, and on Reverb? One with some half-@ssed chrome replacement parts and hole in top for 1100, one with an effing Kahler, and another looks like a coffee table from a hunting lodge at $900.
And - yes - this IS a Norlin era guitar. You think Gibson slaps odd pieces of wood in a $2000 guitar today? You need to see some of the odd color mismatches etc from back then.
#3 T-Tops. Well, I realize everyone gets a fetish for old crap just because it is old. But these are some of the few pickups I just can't find a use for. I have had a set since 1979 and they are as meh as meh can be. Once your ears get over the internet hype, you'll agree too.
#4. Walnut as a tone wood. You guys do know Warmoth has a great description of a ton of wood types? I guess not...
Walnut (Juglans nigra):
Luxurious coloring and grain patterns are the earmarks of Walnut. Whether using an oil finish or a deep clear gloss, the pleasing appeal of Walnut always delivers. This is an open grained wood. Walnut is in the heavy weight category but it's not quite as heavy as hard maple. It has a similar sound to hard maple but it tends not to be as bright.
Or for in depth reading: http://tonewooddatasource.weebly.com/wood-details-u-z.html
My experience - it is indeed a bright wood, but not like Maple. It has, to me, a warm bottom and punchy bright top. Thus, I like the idea of a 59 in it, emphasizing the key tonal characteristics. I have played a bunch, and I'm talking acoustic tone (Because T-tops....)
I think they are cool different Les Paul. Not for everyone, no doubt. But as a guitar from only 1979-ish....that price is cool, and you'll replace the pups anyway. As I point out about most Gibsons - almost none of you are going to buy one anyway...so more hot air than the Santa Anna winds....
Last edited:
Blille
New member
'The Paul' is coming back
Two things:
1) they may be idiots but they’re my idiots and I love them just the same so no need to call anybody an idiot [emoji4]
2) yes, most guitars sell at 60% of MSRP. In this case MSRP is $2,329 so $1,399 or so may be the actual price. Like in Sweetwater and the rest below. Don't worry, we know you've bought guitars before and I don't think anybody here will call you an idiot [emoji6] If you see it cheaper, please tell us where.
Also in CME. https://www.chicagomusicexchange.co...0th-anniversary-walnut-vintage-gloss/15953415
Zzounds https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBTP195?siid=250372
and AMS https://www.americanmusical.com/Ite...MI8Za4kOLK3gIVA9VkCh1P3gbtEAQYAiABEgJ6_fD_BwE
I don't see it yet in GC, MF, SA.
Two things:
1) they may be idiots but they’re my idiots and I love them just the same so no need to call anybody an idiot [emoji4]
2) yes, most guitars sell at 60% of MSRP. In this case MSRP is $2,329 so $1,399 or so may be the actual price. Like in Sweetwater and the rest below. Don't worry, we know you've bought guitars before and I don't think anybody here will call you an idiot [emoji6] If you see it cheaper, please tell us where.
Also in CME. https://www.chicagomusicexchange.co...0th-anniversary-walnut-vintage-gloss/15953415
Zzounds https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBTP195?siid=250372
and AMS https://www.americanmusical.com/Ite...MI8Za4kOLK3gIVA9VkCh1P3gbtEAQYAiABEgJ6_fD_BwE
I don't see it yet in GC, MF, SA.
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Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
Well, some can play them and others not I guess.
My experience is the opposite. If I'd believed the hype I'd have thought T-tops were wimpy, thin and bright. Then I tried them myself and found they weren't - not at all in fact. Same with 70's minis and Shaws that get the same sort of reviews.
As a fully ironic aside, the most meh pickup I have ever had the misfortune to spend $$$ on is a Dimarzio Super Distortion....the pickup most were ripping out mini's and T-tops to put in. A 1 trick pony where the one trick it does is utter crap.
Must just be the player I guess.
Well, some can play them and others not I guess.
My experience is the opposite. If I'd believed the hype I'd have thought T-tops were wimpy, thin and bright. Then I tried them myself and found they weren't - not at all in fact. Same with 70's minis and Shaws that get the same sort of reviews.
As a fully ironic aside, the most meh pickup I have ever had the misfortune to spend $$$ on is a Dimarzio Super Distortion....the pickup most were ripping out mini's and T-tops to put in. A 1 trick pony where the one trick it does is utter crap.
Must just be the player I guess.
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ItsaBass
New member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
You are using the word "retail" where you should be using the word "list," or clarifying what type retail price you are talking about by using "MSRP."
MSRP/list is the price the manufacturer says the thing should retail for.
Retail price (without "manufacturer's suggested" before it) is what they are generally marked at by retailers. It is usually about 70 percent of MSRP/list, as fairly standard practice. These are the prices you see at Sweetwater, Guitar Center, or wherever else retails the instruments.
"Street price," even though it's kind of a misnomer, is often used to mean exactly the same thing as retail price.
Retail price is very often the same as M.A.P., which means minimum advertised price. This is based on a contract between the manufacturer and the retailer. The contract states that the retailer shall not publish any price below such and such amount. The retailer can sell it to you for less, if they want to. But they can't publish a lower price openly. They can sometimes show you the lower price if you put the item in to your online shopping cart, but they can't just mark the item at that price on the Website for all browsers to see.
So...many retailers will indeed negotiate down below retail price, on a case-by-case basis...but usually not to 60 or 80 percent of retail price. More like 60 percent of list price A.K.A. MSRP. (You would think that this is what "street price" means, but it is not.)
The numbers you are talking about buying at as a matter of course (60 percent off of retail price) would have most retailers selling below cost as a matter of course. You're talking about 42 percent of MSRP if 60 percent off retail, and 56 percent of MSRP at 80 percent off retail. You might indeed get these prices sometimes, if a retailer really wants to get rid of something, but you can't routinely buy things for 42 to 56 percent of MSRP; no retailer would stay in business like that.
You are using the word "retail" where you should be using the word "list," or clarifying what type retail price you are talking about by using "MSRP."
MSRP/list is the price the manufacturer says the thing should retail for.
Retail price (without "manufacturer's suggested" before it) is what they are generally marked at by retailers. It is usually about 70 percent of MSRP/list, as fairly standard practice. These are the prices you see at Sweetwater, Guitar Center, or wherever else retails the instruments.
"Street price," even though it's kind of a misnomer, is often used to mean exactly the same thing as retail price.
Retail price is very often the same as M.A.P., which means minimum advertised price. This is based on a contract between the manufacturer and the retailer. The contract states that the retailer shall not publish any price below such and such amount. The retailer can sell it to you for less, if they want to. But they can't publish a lower price openly. They can sometimes show you the lower price if you put the item in to your online shopping cart, but they can't just mark the item at that price on the Website for all browsers to see.
So...many retailers will indeed negotiate down below retail price, on a case-by-case basis...but usually not to 60 or 80 percent of retail price. More like 60 percent of list price A.K.A. MSRP. (You would think that this is what "street price" means, but it is not.)
The numbers you are talking about buying at as a matter of course (60 percent off of retail price) would have most retailers selling below cost as a matter of course. You're talking about 42 percent of MSRP if 60 percent off retail, and 56 percent of MSRP at 80 percent off retail. You might indeed get these prices sometimes, if a retailer really wants to get rid of something, but you can't routinely buy things for 42 to 56 percent of MSRP; no retailer would stay in business like that.
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eclecticsynergy
Well-known member
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
I'd say warm bottom with a punchy bright top is a very accurate description of walnut electric tone IME.
I'd say warm bottom with a punchy bright top is a very accurate description of walnut electric tone IME.
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
Hah I love when a boomer calls me a dumbass and then is wrong. Thanks, Ace. Keep up the good work.
Hah I love when a boomer calls me a dumbass and then is wrong. Thanks, Ace. Keep up the good work.
Re: 'The Paul' is coming back
Sweetwater seems to be making the error here actually.....the Gibson website has the price at $1399....and they never show any discounts
Two things:
1) they may be idiots but they’re my idiots and I love them just the same so no need to call anybody an idiot [emoji4]
2) yes, most guitars sell at 60% of MSRP. In this case MSRP is $2,329 so $1,399 or so may be the actual price. Like in Sweetwater and the rest below. Don't worry, we know you've bought guitars before and I don't think anybody here will call you an idiot [emoji6] If you see it cheaper, please tell us where.
Also in CME. https://www.chicagomusicexchange.co...0th-anniversary-walnut-vintage-gloss/15953415
Zzounds https://www.zzounds.com/item--GIBTP195?siid=250372
and AMS https://www.americanmusical.com/Ite...MI8Za4kOLK3gIVA9VkCh1P3gbtEAQYAiABEgJ6_fD_BwE
I don't see it yet in GC, MF, SA.
Sweetwater seems to be making the error here actually.....the Gibson website has the price at $1399....and they never show any discounts