The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

[PFDarkside]

I've eluded to this in several posts Post #1, Post #2, but I'd like to ask the question outright. At what point do you feel you are reaching the point of diminishing returns in terms of guitars and pricing? You can look at this through the eyes of Fender, Gibson, ESP, Martin, Taylor, Jackson, etc. Basically any company that offers guitars from an import line up through custom shop level output.

Let's take Fender as an example. If you had a chunk to spend on a/some/many Strats would you chose:
-(1) Custom Shop
-(2) American Vintage Reissues (formerly 57/62 now 56/59/65 I believe)
-(several) American Standards with upgrages
-(many) MIM Standards with all kinds of upgrades and customized to your liking

(Again this can be done with Gibsons, ranging from Epiphones up through Historics, or with Jacksons ranging from the import line up through the Costom shop, or even acoustics with Martin's Marquis line/Custom Shop and Taylor's Presentation series)

There are many stories of upgrading MIM Fenders and making them awesome instruments, (in fact I kind of like my friends MIM better than my MIA right now) but as you escalate up through the ranks there are some tangible and intangible benefits to spending the cash.

Where do you fall on this scale?

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I guess I'm also hinting at the fact that with a single high end guitar you are locked into that specific configuration whereas with multiple guitars you can have several "flavors" of that guitar... Either through pickup changes, hardware changes or actual material differences.

 

[aleclee]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I tend to go high-end but I also generally buy used, which skews the quality/price curve. One nice thing about higher end used guitars is that they're often well cared for.

 

[dominus]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

When I'm done with an import, it's way better than any USA made guitar I've had previously. You just have to take the time to get it done right. I'm also much less wary about messing up on a cheap import than I would be on a USA made guitar.


Same goes for playing it. I'm not concerned about keeping it in perfect condition.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I tend to go high-end but I also generally buy used, which skews the quality/price curve. One nice thing about higher end used guitars is that they're often well cared for.

I was going to mention something about buying used, because that can translate throughout the range of guitars. You could buy a king's ransom of Epi Les Pauls for the price of a used Historic.


One thing that someone mentioned in my "Downsize - Upgrade" thread is that most famous players are known to play one or two main guitars. There is something to be said for taking a singular guitar, be it high end or more budget and tweaking it to the point of being your own. Knowing every in and out of the instrument and having it perfect for you. No matter how hard you try, multiple versions of one guitar can't be exactly like each other.

Dominus - I'm sure you see that in your guitars? They should all be nearly identical but I'm sure they all have their own personalities?

 

[blueman335]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

1) I was going to mention something about buying used, because that can translate throughout the range of guitars. You could buy a king's ransom of Epi Les Pauls for the price of a used Historic.

2) One thing that someone mentioned in my "Downsize - Upgrade" thread is that most famous players are known to play one or two main guitars. There is something to be said for taking a singular guitar, be it high end or more budget and tweaking it to the point of being your own. Knowing every in and out of the instrument and having it perfect for you.

1) Absolutely. Used imports in nice, even new condition can be had for half price or less.

2) It's a matter of personal preference as to sticking with a main guitar or two. Some guys like the familiarity of 'old faithful' and others like variety and change guitars every couple songs. Most big name players have large collections, so while some may stick to a guitar or two on stage, they do play the others, in the studio and elsewhere.

I'm of the 'variety' school of thought, and like an assortment of models and PU's, as I play a little different with each one. Helps to keep my playing fresher rotating between LP's SG's, 335's, V's, and hollowbodies. As a broke college student I used to have only one guitar at a time. I look back on that and cringe; I couldn't do that anymore. Too stiffling. There's so many nice guitars at good (even great) prices these days, and the quality of imports has significantly improved since the economy tanked and the guitar market got more competitive. Some guys get so used to one guitar, that they have trouble with anything else, as differences in neck, body, tuners, etc throw them off. I never want to be like that. To me that's a mistake to be that dependent on one guitar. But to each his own. If you play a lot, you can get to know 'every in and out' of your guitars, even if you own a number of them. The difference is you'll know the in's and outs of more than one guitar. Every guitar has it's strengths and limitations; rather than the mystical 'do everything' guitar, it makes more sense to me to use them for what they're best at.

 

[uOpt]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

Well Fender isn't like other manufacturers.

The MIA standard have that matte finish on the neck that I don't like, and I don't want a 2-point trem or chinese-made heavy tuners. At least as far as the neck is concerned I take a MIM Reissue (not MIM standard) over AmStd. MIJ reissues can be a complex matter. Both MIM and MIJ can have random body woods, so it gets very complicated now.

I rate many AVRI as overall higher quality than custom shop guitars, but of course the CS guitars are more unique. Some AVRI years had some corner cutting such as nitro over poly or no nitro in the first place. But then not all CS material is nitro either. CS reissues are a different beast than their 2-point trem guitars that usually have figured woods. So it gets complicated up there, too.

I have been more deliberate in my bass search when it comes to Fender. My favorites are a 1997 AmStd precision body with a MIJ 51 reissue neck and a Seymour Duncan SPB-1 and a straight-up 2000 AVRI '62 precision bass reissue. Two very different paths to instruments that just feel right.

In the guitar world I'm not that hot about Fender anyway.
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?267905-One-thing-I-noticed-about-basses-and-Fender

 

[Kac]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I'd take several imports and customize them myself. As long as I get to play em first I can make sure I like the wood week enough, do some tweeking, swap out all electronics, and I'd be a happy camper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JordanM82]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I am going to lean towards High-End used myself. The quality improvement from those higher end instruments is significant in my opinion and on the used market they can be found at very reasonable prices.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I've got 'em all, but I prefer to buy the less expensive imports and fix them up to be great playing and sounding...every bit as good as high-end.

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

For me, going custom shop isn't a matter of quality (although it obviously is there) but about getting something that isn't available in retail or cannot be easily modified to be so.

After that, yeah, I do believe that nowadays the "import" lines (here even MiA are imports so that term doesn't really mean much to us) have gotten to a MUCH higher standard whereas the MiA lines have remained more or less the same with basically only more expensive woods and/or hardware to being the main differentiating factor.
Of course there's always the "100 little details" aspect to the overall building of the guitar but, when you're talking production line, the bigger the output, the less that seems to be the case (see Gibson).

I am not a gigging musician but play for myself so I seem to prefer one or two guitars that I get exactly where I want them than building an arsenal of purpose-built guitars but I could theoretically see how that would make sense to someone else.
With that in mind, I think I would be more inclined to pay a bit more to get a guitar exactly the way I want it (including Custom Shop level) but would still look for a good deal on a guitar that I liked even if it were further away from my ideal (like my Parker last Christmas) and that would usually fall in the High-end Asian to Lower-to-Mid-end American price range. That's where I feel the sweet-spot is.

 

[TimmyPage]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I think the big difference is in the process of picking wood, and in the electronics quality. You always know that a Custom Shop fender guitar is going to be handpicked from the higher quality tonewood (most of the time) whereas the Squiers will just be made from whatever comes to them. There is also more care put into the building process itself, ensuring that there aren't issues with bleeding paint or bindings, sharp fretboard edges etc.

That being said, with careful listening and with putting the time in to try loads of guitars, it's not impossible to find a random Squier or MIM with better wood quality and construction than a custom shop. Straight up, I went into a shop with about 1500 saved looking for an American Telecaster, ended up walking out with one of the Classic Vibe teles for 400 because the quality and feel of that one in specific blew away the more expensive ones. A small replacement in electronics later and it's easily one of my best guitars.

Electronics are the second big difference, but.. being on a pickup forum, whether it's custom shop or a beater we're likely to replace them anyway so it's arbitrary. High quality pots, wires and capacitors etc will rarely run you more than $30, depending on where you live.

I will say, I've tried some super high end Luthier guitars in the 10k-30k range, and that makes a gigantic difference, these are guitars built from the ground up with a singular tonal and aesthetic concept in mind, and all of them that I've tried (except for one, a Benedetto) have been brilliant instruments. But again it's a matter of diminishing returns, you are paying 6 times more for a guitar that might be 1.2-1.5 times 'better'. I don't think you can justify purchasing an instrument in that range unless you are extremely successful, loaded, or if you're a jazz/classical player who only needs a singular instrument that is built with your specific body and fingers in mind.

Controversial statement, look away if you get mad easily: Most of those super high end guitars are archtops, hollowbodies etc. A grand majority of solidbody guitar sound comes from the pickups and electronics. In most cases it's best to find a cheaper guitar that feels good in your hands and relatively loud acoustically and gut it's electronics for higher quality ones.

 

[Rory61]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I have 4 PRS SE guitars modded to various degrees. All bought used, and after mods I have about 1400 in them total. That's about the cost of 1 MIA strat, and I'm not paranoid about gigging with them on a regular basis. I think that's the way to go for live playing. For a collector, the Custom Shop is the way to go if you want to retain value over the long haul. The mid priced guitars cost too much to worry about getting dinged up, and don't hold value like a CS guitar. Just my opinion of course!

 

[LtKojak]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

In the past I've owned several hi-end instruments. I made music with'em. I was very happy.

Then life got in the way, I had to sell'em all.

Today I own several mid-to-low price instruments that I set'em up myself, so they play in a way that I'm comfortable with. I use'em to make music. I'm as happy as I can be with their tone and their performance.

Life si good!

HTH,

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

In general, I like guitars. Overthinking it, and all the endless posturing, no longer interest me.

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

In general, I like guitars. Overthinking it, and all the endless posturing, no longer interest me.

/thread

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

Then why are we here if not to talk about guitars? Just pictures of pretty girls?

 

[King IzzO)))]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

Then why are we here if not to talk about guitars?

Because:

I like guitars.

Just pictures of pretty girls?

Hey, I like girls too.

 

[Dr. Vegetable]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

I like guitars. I have a lot of them, mostly inexpensive ones. The more expensive ones in my collection are generally prettier and needed less setup when I got them, but I sound just as good (just as bad?) on any of them.

I like that each guitar brings out different elements of my playing. Sometimes I want to play a single hummer with a whammy and light strings, other times I want the sustain of a thru neck, fixed bridge, and heavier strings. Sometimes I want an acoustic, or a banjo. Sometimes I just need to break out of whatever rut I'm currently in, and grabbing a different ax can be just the right nudge.

I would not be happy to own just one guitar that cost a lot of money. Guys I know who are like that play as if they are afraid they might scratch the pick guard. If I should happen to ding the headstock on a mic stand, I just keep on rockin' my $300 MIK.

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)

Used import > "maybe" p/up(s) > good set-up

Done.