The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
- Thread starter PFDarkside
- Start date
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
The point is somewhere between MIJ/MIA standard models and "tweakable" orders like Carvin or ESP do... True custom everything shops just give you more choice and attention, but in no way guarantee a more playable or superior sounding product.
The point is somewhere between MIJ/MIA standard models and "tweakable" orders like Carvin or ESP do... True custom everything shops just give you more choice and attention, but in no way guarantee a more playable or superior sounding product.
ratherdashing
Kablamminator
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
There is no such rule that you can apply to every person and every guitar. You figure out what guitar best meets your needs, and you buy it. Anything else is just pointless speculation.
There is no such rule that you can apply to every person and every guitar. You figure out what guitar best meets your needs, and you buy it. Anything else is just pointless speculation.
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
Get the best tool for the job.
Get the best tool for the job.
Redbowties88
New member
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
My older (made in Korea I believe, with the Gibson truss rod cover) Epi G400 is literally one of the best playing guitars I've ever played. I paid $350 for it round about 2000-2001 brand new. It's literally built as good as many of the $1500-$2000 Gibsons I've played. The neck is set perfectly, there's no excess glue anywhere, the finish is very nice, all the inlays are beautiful, and the bridge and tailpiece are right where they need to be. The only problem with it is the absolutely horrible pickups they used from the factory.
I've played lower end Gibson Sg's (faded series, SGJ's) that were truly and honestly are put together worse then my Epiphone, like jump out and smack you in the face worse.
Sadly newer productions epiphones I've played haven't been as good, but at least they started using half decent pickups on some models.
My older (made in Korea I believe, with the Gibson truss rod cover) Epi G400 is literally one of the best playing guitars I've ever played. I paid $350 for it round about 2000-2001 brand new. It's literally built as good as many of the $1500-$2000 Gibsons I've played. The neck is set perfectly, there's no excess glue anywhere, the finish is very nice, all the inlays are beautiful, and the bridge and tailpiece are right where they need to be. The only problem with it is the absolutely horrible pickups they used from the factory.
I've played lower end Gibson Sg's (faded series, SGJ's) that were truly and honestly are put together worse then my Epiphone, like jump out and smack you in the face worse.
Sadly newer productions epiphones I've played haven't been as good, but at least they started using half decent pickups on some models.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
So far, opinions have been expressed as to the relative merits of guitars in various price brands. Nobody has attempted to define a cut off point.
Speaking only for myself, I grew up with the Fender 7.25" fingerboard radius. To me, this feels like home. I own and enjoy one Fender Custom Shop vintage-style instrument and several mildly modified AVRI models. Some purchased pre-owned. Some new.
Money-wise, we are talking not more than £1600 / $2400.
Not long after Hamer shut down, my local guitar store bought up a batch of XT models from the UK distributor. I have repeatedly found that, after a good set-up and some electronic upgrades, these guitars are just as much fun as my Gibson.
So far, opinions have been expressed as to the relative merits of guitars in various price brands. Nobody has attempted to define a cut off point.
Speaking only for myself, I grew up with the Fender 7.25" fingerboard radius. To me, this feels like home. I own and enjoy one Fender Custom Shop vintage-style instrument and several mildly modified AVRI models. Some purchased pre-owned. Some new.
Money-wise, we are talking not more than £1600 / $2400.
Not long after Hamer shut down, my local guitar store bought up a batch of XT models from the UK distributor. I have repeatedly found that, after a good set-up and some electronic upgrades, these guitars are just as much fun as my Gibson.
mojosman
New member
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
I agree with this poster. I bought my CS Robert Cray used for an awesome price. The down side of that is that I would be apprehensive to alter or mod it because it is worth more than I paid for it. However, with a MIM or even an MIA I don't blink an eye about modding it because the re-sale value just isn't there regardless if it has been modded. I wonder with the Custom Shop cranking out so many models with no end in sight, will their value remain string over the long haul? My particular guitar should do OK because mine is a early first year Cray, and they changed this model subsequently. They now make them with gold hardware and different pickups. I'm thinking to the right collector it would be desirable.
I agree with this poster. I bought my CS Robert Cray used for an awesome price. The down side of that is that I would be apprehensive to alter or mod it because it is worth more than I paid for it. However, with a MIM or even an MIA I don't blink an eye about modding it because the re-sale value just isn't there regardless if it has been modded. I wonder with the Custom Shop cranking out so many models with no end in sight, will their value remain string over the long haul? My particular guitar should do OK because mine is a early first year Cray, and they changed this model subsequently. They now make them with gold hardware and different pickups. I'm thinking to the right collector it would be desirable.
uOpt
Something Cool
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
It really urks me that people simplify by country of manufacture.
A Fender AVRI is a very different guitar than an American Standard.
A MIM reissue is very different from a MIM standard.
A MIJ/CIJ, apart from not being the same in the first place, is, what, always a reissue these days, but there are huge differences coming in here since Fender contracts them out to external factories, while MIM is done in Fender factories (not always to the advantage of the customer when it comes to body "woods" used).
It really urks me that people simplify by country of manufacture.
A Fender AVRI is a very different guitar than an American Standard.
A MIM reissue is very different from a MIM standard.
A MIJ/CIJ, apart from not being the same in the first place, is, what, always a reissue these days, but there are huge differences coming in here since Fender contracts them out to external factories, while MIM is done in Fender factories (not always to the advantage of the customer when it comes to body "woods" used).
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PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
Perhaps the best quote of the thread.
That's a good point uOpt, and obviously there is some crossover between models.
My new Martin is just so good, when I strummed it I had to have it. It was like every step up from cheap import to good import to cheap American/Canadian to more expensive American was like "oh yeah, there's a reason for this price tag". I could have walked out of the store with two pretty decent lower priced guitars for what the Martin cost, but my choice was one nicer guitar over multiple others.
I'm thinking what I could do with one good Strat and one good Les Paul...
Perhaps the best quote of the thread. That's a good point uOpt, and obviously there is some crossover between models.
My new Martin is just so good, when I strummed it I had to have it. It was like every step up from cheap import to good import to cheap American/Canadian to more expensive American was like "oh yeah, there's a reason for this price tag". I could have walked out of the store with two pretty decent lower priced guitars for what the Martin cost, but my choice was one nicer guitar over multiple others.
I'm thinking what I could do with one good Strat and one good Les Paul...
aleclee
Major General GAS
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
I have a MIM Tele. It's a nice guitar. You know what the downside is?
As nice as it might be, it gets almost no playing time behind my Parkers, PRSs, EBMMs and Driskill. A nice guitar stands little chance against a great guitar and a great guitar doesn't hold up in comparison to an amazing guitar. At some point it's a resource allocation issue.
I have a MIM Tele. It's a nice guitar. You know what the downside is?
- I ran the racks for two years searching for this guitar. We might look down our noses at the notion of immediate gratification but what's two years of not having the right guitar worth?
- The woods aren't great. It's a four-piece body (for those who care about such things) but what bugs me is its propensity for fret sprout.
As nice as it might be, it gets almost no playing time behind my Parkers, PRSs, EBMMs and Driskill. A nice guitar stands little chance against a great guitar and a great guitar doesn't hold up in comparison to an amazing guitar. At some point it's a resource allocation issue.
Mr. B
New member
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
There does come a point when the parts and woods they are using are not BETTER, just PRETTIER. Personally, I wouldn't give another 10 cents for a guitar with gold hardware, fancy inlays, or a quilted top.
There does come a point when the parts and woods they are using are not BETTER, just PRETTIER. Personally, I wouldn't give another 10 cents for a guitar with gold hardware, fancy inlays, or a quilted top.
Benjy_26
25's Nemesis
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
I buy good guitars that I can afford at the time. Whether its a used USA made guitar, a clean, unique import, or a cheapie that speaks to me, I'll pick it up and mod it to my tastes if I vibe with it. I think that as long as it plays ok and has a good unplugged tone, any electric will do the job. Money is better spent on a great amp.
I buy good guitars that I can afford at the time. Whether its a used USA made guitar, a clean, unique import, or a cheapie that speaks to me, I'll pick it up and mod it to my tastes if I vibe with it. I think that as long as it plays ok and has a good unplugged tone, any electric will do the job. Money is better spent on a great amp.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
I have some high end guitars, some vintage pieces, a regular line guitar, and 2 imports (one Korean one Canadian). Strangely, the Korean import is where the story is.
I'm in an 80s cover band, and my Gretsch 5120 (The White Egret) is with me at every gig. With TV Jones, and a 1" Bigsby spring the guitar just sounds and plays great...plain and simple. In fact everyone in the band LOVES that guitar. I guess because it sounds sooo different compared to everything else out there. The other guitar I take to gigs is normally my EBMM 25th anniversary. It's funny because that's a real dichotomy, a low production "custom built" guitar and a mass manufactured Korean guitar.
You've gotta stick with what works in your situation.
Luke
I have some high end guitars, some vintage pieces, a regular line guitar, and 2 imports (one Korean one Canadian). Strangely, the Korean import is where the story is.
I'm in an 80s cover band, and my Gretsch 5120 (The White Egret) is with me at every gig. With TV Jones, and a 1" Bigsby spring the guitar just sounds and plays great...plain and simple. In fact everyone in the band LOVES that guitar. I guess because it sounds sooo different compared to everything else out there. The other guitar I take to gigs is normally my EBMM 25th anniversary. It's funny because that's a real dichotomy, a low production "custom built" guitar and a mass manufactured Korean guitar.
You've gotta stick with what works in your situation.
Luke
some_dude
Raging BB Gunologist
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
I think the point of diminishing returns is a floating target that lies somewhere around the point where you can no longer justify the additional expense to yourself.
10 years ago I would've told you that a hotrodded Epi Les Paul was where it's at. It played and sounded great, and after upgrades it still cost less than a low end Gibson.
5 years ago I would've told you that a good USA Gibson Les Paul is where it's at. The guitar just felt and sounded different. The carve of the top, the feel of the neck, the tuners... the devil is in the details and the best pickups in the world won't turn an Epi into a Gibson.
For the last few years I've been playing a custom shop Les Paul. I wanted a P90 Les Paul and at the time the '54 and '56 re-issues were the only option. I wouldn't have been able to get it if it weren't for '56 RIs being a bit cheaper than Gibson's humbucker equipped Historics (and I got it at a bit of a discount due to my friend working at the store). It pretty much ruined me for cheaper guitars. The devil is in the details and everything from the feel of the tuners to the fretwork to the stoptail was above what I was accustomed to handing. It would've cost me a fortune to rework a USA Standard up to this quality, at which point the USA Standard would've cost more than what I paid for the Historic.
Last year I bought a second custom shop Les Paul ('59 re-issue) to replace my old USA Standard. It blows it away in every regard. Sound, feel, looks. At this stage of the game I would have a hard time justifying spending $3000 on a USA Standard when I know what I'd be missing out on for slightly more money (I'd get a 57 RI).
That said, I periodically play my old Epi and it's still a damn good guitar. Just because a guitar doesn't cost a small fortune doesn't mean it isn't a good guitar, just don't try to convince me that the difference between a $500 guitar and a $5000 guitar can be made up with a pickup swap.
I think the point of diminishing returns is a floating target that lies somewhere around the point where you can no longer justify the additional expense to yourself.
10 years ago I would've told you that a hotrodded Epi Les Paul was where it's at. It played and sounded great, and after upgrades it still cost less than a low end Gibson.
5 years ago I would've told you that a good USA Gibson Les Paul is where it's at. The guitar just felt and sounded different. The carve of the top, the feel of the neck, the tuners... the devil is in the details and the best pickups in the world won't turn an Epi into a Gibson.
For the last few years I've been playing a custom shop Les Paul. I wanted a P90 Les Paul and at the time the '54 and '56 re-issues were the only option. I wouldn't have been able to get it if it weren't for '56 RIs being a bit cheaper than Gibson's humbucker equipped Historics (and I got it at a bit of a discount due to my friend working at the store). It pretty much ruined me for cheaper guitars. The devil is in the details and everything from the feel of the tuners to the fretwork to the stoptail was above what I was accustomed to handing. It would've cost me a fortune to rework a USA Standard up to this quality, at which point the USA Standard would've cost more than what I paid for the Historic.
Last year I bought a second custom shop Les Paul ('59 re-issue) to replace my old USA Standard. It blows it away in every regard. Sound, feel, looks. At this stage of the game I would have a hard time justifying spending $3000 on a USA Standard when I know what I'd be missing out on for slightly more money (I'd get a 57 RI).
That said, I periodically play my old Epi and it's still a damn good guitar. Just because a guitar doesn't cost a small fortune doesn't mean it isn't a good guitar, just don't try to convince me that the difference between a $500 guitar and a $5000 guitar can be made up with a pickup swap.
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aleclee
Major General GAS
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
QFT. Your comments about the difference in little details really resonated with me, too.
kilphody
Upstate Highlander
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
Then why does everyone throw out the neck with the giblets?
Then why does everyone throw out the neck with the giblets?
PFDarkside
of the Forum
Re: The point of diminishing returns for guitar (Import vs MIA vs Custom Shop)
Are you playing two Custom Shop LPs now?
Not if you're my grandma, you don't.
Excellent post. I always appreciate your POV...
Are you playing two Custom Shop LPs now?
