the thing about 5watt amps.....

Chickenwings

Alnico 6/8
....is that they sound like 5 watt amps.
I know the purists say that the best kind of drive is power tube saturation. Its true to a certain extent, but it really depends on what kind of power tubes you are driving, and how you are driving them.
5watts class A? An el34 running single ended? Sure it will get dirty, but that doesnt necessarilymean it sounds killer.
Also, there is this myth that 5watt amps give you amazing power tube saturation at low volumes. Nah. They are still loud little buggers. Remember you can easily get 100 db from a 1 watt amp, and the difference between a 100watt amp to a 50watt amp is only a few db.
Its true that a a 5 watt amp will be running on full power if you play in a band where the drummer uses sticks, but its a myth that just turning an amp up to 10 is the best sound. In reality, 5watts is really just a little undergunned for use with a band. Not cos its not loud, but because 5 watts just cannot give you the bottom end and fullness of sound. It ends up sounding like a buzzy mess.
You can use them for recording, sure. But you can use any amp for recording.
I dont mind the marshall class 5, the ulbrick (think its called a firebottle) and i have a blackheart thing here for a week or so, but for a gig...nah.
In fact, for practicing....id rather have something with more headroom.
I know that preamp compression is seen as the poor cousin of power tube saturation, but i have to say that one EL84 being beaten to death is not very exciting to my ears.
Id rather have a 100w marshall and a tubescreamer, or a twin, a deluxe reverb....even a blues junior at 15watts to practive with than any boutique 5 watt amp.
However, to be fair to 5 watt amps....if i run them lowish (mostly clean) and roll off the treble, then they can give a pleasant practice sound...but then again if i wanted clean at lowish volumes , an amp with maybe 20 watts sounds so much better to my ears.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

I agree with you overall.

Nothing roars like a big Marshall or Hi_watt or Bassman, or even a tweed deluxe full bore. But that little class5 is definitely more in line with its bigger brothers than most 5w amps.

Thats the big problem with low wattage- you really cannot drive a single 6v6 or El84 all that much without it getting fairly loud, and the amps like blackstar HT5/1 that are using a pre-amp tube to simulate a power tube, just don't sound or break up the same- they sound like a tube distortion pedal.

I suspect the real key for a manageable volume, and getting some pleasing power tube push is a lower wattage speaker in a smaller cab, with a 15-30 ish watt amp with power scaling or a good attentuator. That Fargen MiniPlex is pretty stellar. If I ever get the $ wrangled up, that and a 1x12 with a Greenback in it will be mine.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Volume can be overcome at many levels...

A 10 watt amp and 8, 12inch, 100db speakers is rather loud and a 100 watt amp into a single 96bd 12 can be used in most home settings with a little help.

The issue of dirt/distortion can be handled in several ways as well...master volumes, attenuators even pedals for big amps and the little ones, just crank them a lot or crank them a little and boost them a little and you have dirt...

However, headroom can NOT be replicated in a small amp...it's just not possible!

If you have a 10 watt amp and you turn the volume to 3 you're as loud as the amp will get, already pretty compressed and if you boost it or addan OD pedal in front you are really working the amp hard and the harder you work the amp the harder it is to roll things back and get a good clean tone some player like, want and need however with a bigger amp it is MUCH easier.

Even worse still is if you have a 10 watt amp with a 1 or 15 watt speaker...then on top of the amp working it's all kicking the speakers ass for even more crunch and compression and coming back form that can be hard at any kind of volume level...

This is the reason, the only reaosn I've been looking at slightly bigger amps lately...there is no substitute for headroom!
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

I am not a fan of the single-valve Class A amps. And I felt exactly as you do, until I played Jeff Bober's Studio 2. Since then I've been more open to smaller-wattage amplifiers (especially since clean headroom is NOT something I require), but none have come close to the Studio 2. It's easily as loud as a 20 Watt amp, though it runs out of steam and umph quickly after that.

Then again, it's not DESIGNED to out-tractor-pull a 50-100W amp.

But it's also not a budget amp, by any stretch. Small wattage does not necessarily equate to small sound. I have yet to find any single-digit amps that come anywhere close to the Studio 2 in dynamics, tone, or touch-sensitivity.

Ultimately, it all depends on application. And I still supplement the Studio 2 live with another amp.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

If I'm gonna get jiggy wit it, its 100 watts for me..nothing else will do, admittedly thats with a relatively inefficient Celestion Marshall cabinet.
and lots of Marshall Crisp , edgy breakup.
otherwise, I like low wattage practice amps, but for me, if Im using distortion, 30 watts is about as low as I wanna go , in liue of multiple amps, as a general rule of thumb.
For Cleans or Cleans that breakup at about 5 like a Black Deluxe Reverb ( not really into the silverface or late reissue sparkly cleans as addicting as can be..there is just no complexity or bloom there), then whatever watts those are is perfect.
 
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Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Decent cleans are possible with single coils and the right use of the volume knob, but still, I only use my little 6 watt, one 6V6 amp in practices, or mic'd up in the PA. With it unmic'd, I get lost if the band gets too loud, and end up hitting the strings too hard, with the guitar on ten...bye bye dynamics.

Keep in mind that I use a 2x12 with speakers rated at 102db.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

I don't like headroom, so my Marshall Class 5 is perfect for blues rock and blues based rock in small room situations. It's not my main amp, but it has its place.
 
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Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

....is that they sound like 5 watt amps.
I know the purists say that the best kind of drive is power tube saturation. Its true to a certain extent, but it really depends on what kind of power tubes you are driving, and how you are driving them.
5watts class A? An el34 running single ended? Sure it will get dirty, but that doesnt necessarilymean it sounds killer.
Also, there is this myth that 5watt amps give you amazing power tube saturation at low volumes. Nah. They are still loud little buggers. Remember you can easily get 100 db from a 1 watt amp, and the difference between a 100watt amp to a 50watt amp is only a few db.
Its true that a a 5 watt amp will be running on full power if you play in a band where the drummer uses sticks, but its a myth that just turning an amp up to 10 is the best sound. In reality, 5watts is really just a little undergunned for use with a band. Not cos its not loud, but because 5 watts just cannot give you the bottom end and fullness of sound. It ends up sounding like a buzzy mess.
You can use them for recording, sure. But you can use any amp for recording.
I dont mind the marshall class 5, the ulbrick (think its called a firebottle) and i have a blackheart thing here for a week or so, but for a gig...nah.
In fact, for practicing....id rather have something with more headroom.
I know that preamp compression is seen as the poor cousin of power tube saturation, but i have to say that one EL84 being beaten to death is not very exciting to my ears.
Id rather have a 100w marshall and a tubescreamer, or a twin, a deluxe reverb....even a blues junior at 15watts to practive with than any boutique 5 watt amp.
However, to be fair to 5 watt amps....if i run them lowish (mostly clean) and roll off the treble, then they can give a pleasant practice sound...but then again if i wanted clean at lowish volumes , an amp with maybe 20 watts sounds so much better to my ears.

True to my experience. I just gave mine (Class 5) to my partners 11 year old. Just not articulate enough for me, but I'm not sure they are well matched to a semi anyway.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

I'm not a big fan of non-master volume amps, so the 5w thing doesn't really appeal to me.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Selling my 100W JCM900 MkIII to get a second Class 5 (head).
Going to save to get a stereo chorus and/or A/B/Y box.

You realy want to play a Class 5 through a 4x12 or 4x10...
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

people don't understand the meaning of 3 dB. The dB scale is logarithmic, so it isn't the same going from 60 to 63 dB than 100 to 103 dB.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Selling my 100W JCM900 MkIII to get a second Class 5 (head).
Going to save to get a stereo chorus and/or A/B/Y box.

You realy want to play a Class 5 through a 4x12 or 4x10...

Bad Idea. Then you'll have to change your name.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Selling my 100W JCM900 MkIII to get a second Class 5 (head).
Going to save to get a stereo chorus and/or A/B/Y box.

You realy want to play a Class 5 through a 4x12 or 4x10...

funnily enough after playing thru the 5 watter 1x12 for a maybe half an hour, i plugged into my JCM900MKIII 1x12. The marshall (as you would expect) absolutely creamed the thing. The blackheart does sound pretty convincing i guess, but even with the marshall at low volume it is just smoother, warmer and better in every respect.
I know 4x12s are great and can make little amps sound big...i used to gig a half stack for years.
As far as todays experiment went tho, it was good having two 1x12 combos so at least the comparison between the 5w and the 100w was more even. Obviously the marshall can get prodigiously loud, but i kept the master at a level where the two amps were comparable. Id rather drive 4x12s with the 100watter any day of the week.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Selling my 100W JCM900 MkIII to get a second Class 5 (head).
Going to save to get a stereo chorus and/or A/B/Y box.

You realy want to play a Class 5 through a 4x12 or 4x10...

You'll regret it. Don't sell that MkIII.

The only single-digit amp I'm interested in is the Class 5. Great little amp. For around 20 watts, I like the Jet City combo. I can easily get my sound out of that one.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

....is that they sound like 5 watt amps.
I know the purists say that the best kind of drive is power tube saturation. Its true to a certain extent, but it really depends on what kind of power tubes you are driving, and how you are driving them.
5watts class A? An el34 running single ended? Sure it will get dirty, but that doesnt necessarilymean it sounds killer.
Also, there is this myth that 5watt amps give you amazing power tube saturation at low volumes. Nah. They are still loud little buggers. Remember you can easily get 100 db from a 1 watt amp, and the difference between a 100watt amp to a 50watt amp is only a few db.
Its true that a a 5 watt amp will be running on full power if you play in a band where the drummer uses sticks, but its a myth that just turning an amp up to 10 is the best sound. In reality, 5watts is really just a little undergunned for use with a band. Not cos its not loud, but because 5 watts just cannot give you the bottom end and fullness of sound. It ends up sounding like a buzzy mess.
You can use them for recording, sure. But you can use any amp for recording.
I dont mind the marshall class 5, the ulbrick (think its called a firebottle) and i have a blackheart thing here for a week or so, but for a gig...nah.
In fact, for practicing....id rather have something with more headroom.
I know that preamp compression is seen as the poor cousin of power tube saturation, but i have to say that one EL84 being beaten to death is not very exciting to my ears.
Id rather have a 100w marshall and a tubescreamer, or a twin, a deluxe reverb....even a blues junior at 15watts to practive with than any boutique 5 watt amp.
However, to be fair to 5 watt amps....if i run them lowish (mostly clean) and roll off the treble, then they can give a pleasant practice sound...but then again if i wanted clean at lowish volumes , an amp with maybe 20 watts sounds so much better to my ears.

Exactly --- exactly, exactly, exactly.

I had a Blackheart 5 watt head, and it sounded terrible cranked, terrible low, terrible clean, terrible dirty. I upgraded the tubes trying to get it to sound good (MESA SPAX7, JJ EL84), nope. I upgraded the speaker in the cab to try to get it to sound good (Weber Blue Dog), nope.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Exactly --- exactly, exactly, exactly.

I had a Blackheart 5 watt head, and it sounded terrible cranked, terrible low, terrible clean, terrible dirty. I upgraded the tubes trying to get it to sound good (MESA SPAX7, JJ EL84), nope. I upgraded the speaker in the cab to try to get it to sound good (Weber Blue Dog), nope.
I think you're confusing things -- there ARE good low wattage amps out there; the Blackheart is a compromise, made for a price point, and trying to cash in on a trend, not designed for tone.
 
Re: the thing about 5watt amps.....

Hey Gibson175...


...what do you think about this 7watt amp ?

Hardly louder than my Class5, (dpending on speaker eff.) and if you do not need any headroom/clean tones, i think this is a monster with BIG Amp tones in it.
Sure does not sound like a sub 10Watt amp to me.
YMMV

 
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