THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

mantis

New member
Hello all,
I was replying to the ES-5 thread and got thinking. Here is my reply.

I think they keep trying to hit price points instead of building a higher quality unit. I'm willing to bet Boss could build the worlds best Modeling and effects Multi Processors if they felt they could sell them.
Think about this. The New MS-3 is $399. You get a 3 loop pedal switcher and 100+ effects amp control, Midi etc. All of that for only $399. Now think about if they doubled the quality and charged $699 for the same exact thing just high quality. Would it still sell? I would buy one if it sounded better was more analog and preserved your guitar and amps natural tone and added a dedicated loop for your amps effects loop. That to me would be well worth $699 even $799 would still be fine.
Think about now much it costs to build a nice pedal board. You can easily spend $2000.00 right? Thats pretty easy to do considering what a nice pedal switcher, cables , and all the effects your gonna want. Why not build a MS-3 like product of much higher quality? I know in my heart once people started using it and it can rival or even sound better then stand alone pedals, they would fly off the shelf.
The sheer weight of a fully loaded pedal board can get up there. Boss could build a MS-3 like product with no loops other then the loop for your amps effects loop and have all effects built in of the highest quality available and still sell a product like that for like lets say $999.99. Would you buy one IF it sounded as good as stand alone pedals or better? I sure would.
They could make the front of the switcher pure analog and send everything to the front of the amp in analog for drives OD type stuff even an analog buffer circuit. Then in the effects loop have the option to use analog or digital modulation effects. A built on Matrix switch for a built on volume and express pedals so you can move the volume pedal where you want it in pure analog form low impedance and the expression pedal to be matrix to any effect like OD level or Delay time.

If I worked for Boss I would propose this type of product and market it as the ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD. I would make a carrying case for it and have it setup as a stage ready board with lights and a bigger more clear high quality screen. Have the case as optional but I'm sure most would use it as I would design it to make the most sense for use at home and on stage.

So who would seriously consider a product like this? What on the market would you say is the closest to something of this caliber?
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I dunno, man. Most people wouldn't recognize quality if it stripped naked and marched right under their noses while beating a drum and playing a kazoo.
 
THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I don't think people crave more or "better" effects on the MS3. Probably an MS-5/8 with the ability to move the loops would do it for 99% of the cases. You put the effects you care about in the loops, the MS-x picks up the rest.

Gear heads crave tweaking and personalizing.



I dunno, man. Most people wouldn't recognize quality if it stripped naked and marched right under their noses while beating a drum and playing a kazoo.

What if it played the tuba?


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Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Boss is measured. If MS-3 is successful and so is ES-8, I wouldn't be surprised to see a MS-8 and a ES-10/12.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Lets look at the present day competition

At $799
http://atomicamps.com/amplifire-12

At $999
http://shop.fractalaudio.com/FX8_Multi_Effects_Pedalboard_Mark_II_p/fas-027.htm
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HelixLT
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HeadRush

At $1299
http://shop.fractalaudio.com/AX8_Amp_Modeler_Multi_Effects_Pedalboard_p/fas-008.htm

At $1499
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Helix

So its quite a crowded market I'd say at various price brackets. Not sure if Boss would bother trying anymore & if they did then it would have to be something from ground up from programming standpoint, followed by a powerful processor & then I/O features to compliment. It's tough a world now.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Don't forget the TCE G system, although it's fairly old now the price is way down and between the midi control, built in effects and 5 loops it's still quite capable with 200 presets. I would jump at a new G system if they updated it with PolyTune, a looper and a built in mimiq.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Now think about if they doubled the quality and charged $699 for the same exact thing just high quality. Would it still sell? I would buy one if it sounded better was more analog and preserved your guitar and amps natural tone and added a dedicated and it can rival or even sound better then stand alone pedals, they would fly off the shelf.



Kind of optimistic. Most players prefer to pick a few pedals of their own choice, rather than use what comes with a multi-effects processor. It's way more complicated and more expensive than most want. A lot of players are willing to spend that much on a guitar or an amp, not a single pedal. To me, multi-effects processors give tons of options, far more than you'll ever conceivably use, and in exchange you give up the tones of those special pedals that you really love. Not that appealing. I'd rather have the real sound of a pedal, than an emulated, processed one. Are there any $699 & $799 pedals that are flying off shelves? Your example of a 'nice' $2,000 pedal board: How much does the average player spend on his? The market's probably pretty limited for high-end multi-effects pedals.

From the manufacturer's perspective, it represents a significant amount of development time, labor, and money, for what could be a dust collector in music stores. They'd have to move a lot of units to break even (remember, the retailer gets a piece of the action).
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I've owned a few multi Fx processors in the past and I ALWAYS get rid of them in favor of the particular pedals I want.
I wouldn't be a buyer of the op's idea.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Think about now much it costs to build a nice pedal board. You can easily spend $2000.00 right?

NEIN!

17309873_387447054971927_3392668589446866889_n.jpg
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

I've owned a few multi Fx processors in the past and I ALWAYS get rid of them in favor of the particular pedals I want.
I wouldn't be a buyer of the op's idea.


+1. Is any expensive multi-effects pedal is going to take the guitar community by storm these days? There are so many great individual pedals floating around today, whether new creations or improved versions of old classics; they have precise circuits whose tones can't fully be duplicated by processors. How many of us would rather have a few of those, than one 'do-it-all' multi-effect box full of bells & whistles? I think a lot of players see multi-effects pedals as a 'jack-of-all-trades, master of none.' You have to overcome that perception, and develop a product different enough from the competition, that sells for a price the average guitarist is willing to pay, and still be able to make a profit. How many players are yearning for such a pedal?
 
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Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

With Boss pedals being so ubiquitous I would think that a lot of people would be into something more expansive from them. I would seriously consider a system (from anyone) that allowed you to buy the pedals on a chip or card and expand and customize the system as you want. There would obviously still have to be a physical limit, but you should be able to have a significant number of slots without getting too expensive or as large as the M13. Encouraging third party developers to come on board might help it catch on, too.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Did the OP get knocked out sometime in the early 90s and finally gained consciousness or what? The first multi-effect I spotted was Korg A4 featuring George Lynch, then DOD TR series, Ibanez, Digitech, Boss GT series and TC G System coming along for the past 20 years, but time and time again, guitar players revert to the ol' and trusty DS-1s, Tubescreamers, DD-5, DS-1, Phase 90, etc. at the end of the day. Multi-effects seem to be there just for tone experiments.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Tell that to Neal Schon, Steve Stevens and John Petrucci. They haven't gotten the memo that they have based their rigs around "tone experimenters".

I would actually flip your statement upside down: pedals are great for tonal experimentation, as they are cheap and can be used to fill gaps in ones rig quickly. High-end multi-fx processors are however reliable, keep your rig simple and do a far better job than one should expect from the price tag – especially in a stereo rig or in an effects loop at line level. They are, however, not good for instant gratification and require planning in advance, which I suspect are more important reasons why they remain unpopular with forumites.
 
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Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Tell that to Neal Schon, Steve Stevens and John Petrucci. They haven't gotten the memo that they have based their rigs around "tone experimenters".

I would actually flip your statement upside down: pedals are great for tonal experimentation, as they are cheap and can be used to fill gaps in ones rig quickly. High-end multi-fx processors are however reliable, keep your rig simple and do a far better job than one should expect from the price tag – especially in a stereo rig or in an effects loop at line level. They are, however, not good for instant gratification and require planning in advance, which I suspect are more important reasons why they remain unpopular with forumites.

Yeah you can come up seven million other names, whatever pal. But I think you completely missed my point.

My point is, multi-effects will not replace stompboxes. Guitar players hate innovation. For example, racks were hot in the 90s, but then stompboxes reclaimed the throne.

As far as pedals being cheap, I reckon you haven't heard of those boo-teek brands like Strymon, TC, Eventide (?). Even Boss has become quite pricey these days. So, no.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

You are changing the goal posts quite severely here. I replied to the claim that "Multi-effects seem to be there just for tone experiments.", which I am sure you agree is something completely different than the claim that "multi-effects will not replace stompboxes." The latter is obvious to the extent that it is not worth discussing. For what it is worth, stomp boxes have not replaced multi-fx processors either.

I am not sure how your (true) story about rack gear falling in and out of favour through the nineties show that "Guitar players hate innovation." In fact it seems to suggest the opposite, but I do think you are onto something.

To be fair: I am quite aware of the newer generation of expensive pedals, but that might not have come through in my post. In fact, I should have brought that point into high relief: I am in fact of the opinion that pedals generally are overpriced, and that they are likely to be more so the more expensive they are. It is, however, still going to be cheaper to buy a pedal for instant gratification than a high-end processor that will deliver what you need (or most of what you need) in a convenient package. This, as I said, is where I suspect much of the pedals' continued appeal lies, although guitarists' traditionalism surely plays into it to some extent too.
 
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PS: Please forgive my somewhat antagonistic tone in the post above. I get annoyed by some of the more outlandish statements about the self-evident superiority of stomp boxes, but I should have assumed good faith to a larger extent than I did. I add this instead of changing it as I see there are people viewing the thread, who might be replying as I type this.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Plans? We doan need no stinkink plans, meester!
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Did the OP get knocked out sometime in the early 90s and finally gained consciousness or what? The first multi-effect I spotted was Korg A4 featuring George Lynch, then DOD TR series, Ibanez, Digitech, Boss GT series and TC G System coming along for the past 20 years, but time and time again, guitar players revert to the ol' and trusty DS-1s, Tubescreamers, DD-5, DS-1, Phase 90, etc. at the end of the day. Multi-effects seem to be there just for tone experiments.
Actually I took a 13 year off break from playing guitar in that time frame. I stopped playing the the early 90's and didn't get back to it until 2005. So yeah I have a huge gap of what was going on in the world of guitar for over a decade.
By the way I started playing in 1979.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

Kind of optimistic. Most players prefer to pick a few pedals of their own choice, rather than use what comes with a multi-effects processor. It's way more complicated and more expensive than most want. A lot of players are willing to spend that much on a guitar or an amp, not a single pedal. To me, multi-effects processors give tons of options, far more than you'll ever conceivably use, and in exchange you give up the tones of those special pedals that you really love. Not that appealing. I'd rather have the real sound of a pedal, than an emulated, processed one. Are there any $699 & $799 pedals that are flying off shelves? Your example of a 'nice' $2,000 pedal board: How much does the average player spend on his? The market's probably pretty limited for high-end multi-effects pedals.

From the manufacturer's perspective, it represents a significant amount of development time, labor, and money, for what could be a dust collector in music stores. They'd have to move a lot of units to break even (remember, the retailer gets a piece of the action).

Not only that, effects processors rapidly decrease in resale value when the next high tech board comes along. Not so with old fashioned analog pedals, especially high quality pedals in gig worthy enclosures.
 
Re: THE ULTIMATE PEDAL BOARD!!!

PS: Please forgive my somewhat antagonistic tone in the post above. I get annoyed by some of the more outlandish statements about the self-evident superiority of stomp boxes, but I should have assumed good faith to a larger extent than I did. I add this instead of changing it as I see there are people viewing the thread, who might be replying as I type this.
I find both of your replies fine. Everyone has the right to their opinion and us guitarists are strong twisted broken in some way and have crazy ideas about how to do things sometimes.

I'm not telling anyone what do to with their rigs or what is or what is not. All these things are tools to make music and thats my goal.
Boss released the MS-3. Look at that product and it's going in the right direction for me anyway. I'm just looking for something like that of higher quality.
The G system from tc is not my cup of tea. I've been down the tc electronics rabbit hole and got sucked in with my first purchase of the Spark with is an incredible pedal. BUT I'm not the biggest fan of the rest of the line. I own a lot of it and I prefer Boss pedals and sound more especially the buffers they are way better with Boss then tc.

With all that I still want Boss to build my ULTIMATE pedal effects switching processor. The MS-3 is very close but I want higher quality more attention to detail. I want a Waza Craft level model. I can't see why that is so much to ask for.
Gibson has no issue selling you a 10k Les Paul and people buy them. They still offer affordable models but still offer a higher end choice for those who are willing to spend for what they want.

Honestly thats why there are so many choices out there from mild to wild. The AXE effects is interesting but I have yet to plug into one. The Helix is interesting but again never plugged into one and I never liked a single Line 6 product yet.
When I got back into the game back in 2005, I plugged into a Spider and hated it. I thought it was a toy or something. I tired many of their effects amps and multi effect processors back then and ended up getting rid of all of them. I can't see the Helix being any different.
 
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