Theory ideas

[Clint 55]

The Tal clip got me motivated to practice some Tal harmony. So I promise the ideas you give me I will actually do. I won't just start this thread to blab. So I picked this tune cuz it's all quarter notes (and half notes). I want to play a different chord or chord voicing of the same chord for each melody note to try to learn to play like Tal. What are your ideas about what chords to use for where the written chord stays the same? Play a different voicing of the same chord? Or play the V of the chord? Or some other wisdom you have? What say you. I promise I will friggin do it and not just blab about it.

It wouldn't let me post the lead sheet. Here's the link:

https://musescore.com/static/musesc...9d850daa2841d/score_0.svg?no-cache=1531731464

 

[Phantasmagoria]

Re: Theory ideas

I got none

 

[TwilightOdyssey]

Re: Theory ideas

Wow, where to start ...
a) those chords are suggestions, not laws
b) where you place your voice leading within the chord will have a huge impact on the chord voicing you use

I would advise taking it slow. Take one measure, learn the top line, then work through the chord inversions under it. Transpose the melody up an octave if you have to in order to keep it easier.

Then start trying different voicings of those chords. Don’t forget about passing tones and the very basic stuff, like contrary motion.

Good luck! Take your time and post your progress. I’m sure Mincer will be along with some sage advice as well.

 

[Aceman]

Re: Theory ideas

I spent some time learning chord melody...all theory you seek is there.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

The 2 ideas I have would be to use the same chord but change it either a little only by the top melody note or more and change other notes in the chord. The other idea would be to do a cadence between the written chord and another chord such as the 5 of it or possibly another choice.

 

[nexion218]

Re: Theory ideas

The last challenge I tried similar to this one was trying to play anything and everything with straight Drop2 voicings. Then looked up Rick Beato's channel for reharmoization videos but lost him at around the two minute mark. My fault, not his.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

I can't stand the term drop 2. It infuriates me lol! Just describe the ****in voicing in what ****in inversion it's in. My teacher said he likes describing the voicing by which note is on top which I thought was cool. Since a bass can be filling in the bass notes. I experimented with my ideas and they sounded good. Also forgot about simple tritone subs. Those worked great for if the chord lasts 2 beats. Rick kind of sucks at explaining things sometimes lol. This one vid on alternate scale concept he described as melodic minor pentatonic modes. But he didn't build the scale from a 'pentatonic melodic minor' he built it from the full melodic minor and then did a terrible job explaining how he assigns the scales.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZpz2gpSdSM

 

[nexion218]

Re: Theory ideas

I can't stand the term drop 2. It infuriates me lol! Just describe the ****in voicing in what ****in inversion it's in. [/url]

As I understand it, drop2 means that you're "dropping" the second highest note of any 7th chord an octave lower making it basically the bass note in the voicing. Thus a single 7th chord has four drop2 voicings derived from the root position and its three inversions. So based on this a root position CMaj7 drop2 describes the chord and voicing to me pretty accurately. But this is just my understanding, which might not be correct considering my level of noobness...

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

Ok well that makes sense. Kind of useless tho for guitar since you just choose whatever notes that it's possible to grab in that area of the neck with your desired melody note.

 

[nexion218]

Re: Theory ideas

Well, there's gotta be some use for it, whole lotta cats are using those voicings.... But I get your drift. The reason I had the challenge to use the voicings exclusively was that I wanted to learn them very thoroughly. Of vourse, if it wasn't just an excersise, but and actual attempt at making music, I'd priorotize musical purpose or function over the preference of whatever voicing.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

What I think of when I go to make a voicing for playing a tune is first, what melody note do I want on top, next is how bass heavy do I want it, and last is how altered to I want to make the voicing. From just a bar chord triad to all color and altered notes. After that, there's not much more I can do and still be able to grab the chord. I'm not gonna think, Oh I need it to be drop 2!! Because it's drop 2! When ur playing piano, you have to develop the same intuitive approach to building your voicings because there are infinite ways to voice a chord and it just has to suit what you're playing. I'm not gonna think 'I better use drop 2!!!'

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Theory ideas

I'd try playing around with upper extensions and just listen for what sounds good (picking an extension with a note that's a half step away from the next chord you're going to play, or picking chords with tones that closely follow the melody line in the same register usually sound good for example). Brush up on your 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, b13s, 13ths, #13s, and the like. Even just going with a simple sus2-maj-sus4 kinda thing will still have a strong tonic feel, but give you some motion.

 

[nexion218]

Re: Theory ideas

What I think of when I go to make a voicing for playing a tune is first, what melody note do I want on top, next is how bass heavy do I want it, and last is how altered to I want to make the voicing. From just a bar chord triad to all color and altered notes. After that, there's not much more I can do and still be able to grab the chord. I'm not gonna think, Oh I need it to be drop 2!! Because it's drop 2! When ur playing piano, you have to develop the same intuitive approach to building your voicings because there are infinite ways to voice a chord and it just has to suit what you're playing. I'm not gonna think 'I better use drop 2!!!'

Sounds like we agree on this one.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

So I put my foot in my mouth about the drop 2 voicings. I now fully understand the term and why they work well for guitar. My teach is having me work all the drop 2 voicings for maj7 min7 and dom7 on strings 1-4. Me liking to use bassier voicings still holds true tho.

 

[nexion218]

Re: Theory ideas

LOL My absolute fave is the major 3-7-1-5. To me, it has an unusually dark sound for major.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

It does sound dark and strange. Tougher to grab. The dom7 one of that voicing also sounds weird and not dominant. I'm like wtf is going on.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

Working the harmonized 6th diminished scale aka just 4 inversions of a chord with diminished chords in between as a cadence. I had a lightbulb moment when I realized that the minor 7 voicings are the same as the major 6th voicings. Woohoo! So I already have major and minor started. I'll still have to work it out with major 7 or with dominant. Dominant is tricky because it's alternating between a dominant as the main chord and a diminished as the dominant haha.

 

[nexion218]

Re: Theory ideas

harmonized 6th diminished scale
View attachment 105515

Wow, that is a rad concept! Never heard of it (it's irrelevant, there are tons of things I haven't heard of...). Had to google it, this helped me understand the catch (I think):

https://cochranemusic.com/barry-harris-6th-dim-scale-diminished

Yeah, these "phenotypical" similarities between chord shapes are really cool. When I first realized that, say, the maj7 with the bass note on 4th string looks the same as a min7 with the bass on the 6th string I was a bit like "man, how am I gonna remember which one's which, they look the same?", but then I realized that it actually helps me because my fingers only learn one shape, while my "music" gets two chords.

 

[Clint 55]

Re: Theory ideas

Yeah it's a super rad concept. Barry Harris, the jazz pianist, made it up where all it is is sticking the b6 in the major scale. So when it's harmonized you get your main chord if you use a 6 chord and then a dim 7 chord alternating all the way up. The explanation isn't that important, the idea is pretty simple if you just go main chord, dim, main chord inversion, dim, etc. With other chords as the main chord such as say a dom 7 or a half diminished I don't think it works out perfectly theory wise back to the parent scale but it still works if you just find voicings that sound good to go main chord, dim, main chord inversion, dim, etc. Gonna try to just get the chords down then Barry Harris has some demonstrations where he uses it for more intricate chord melody. I'm also gonna try working melody ideas with it.